Powering 2 Pumps and 2 Hose reels

[Math]

Hi I've recently put a second hose reel into my van, with an additional Pump and controller but was advised that the 110amp leisure battery is sufficient to power both pumps.

Is this correct?

If this is correct what would the leisure battery have to be charged to , to power 2 pumps ?

It's currently showing about 12.8 and it's struggling to power both pumps and hose reels etc.

What do I need to do?

Thanks in advance

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Hi I've recently put a second hose reel into my van, with an additional Pump and controller but was advised that the 110amp leisure battery is sufficient to power both pumps.

Is this correct?

If this is correct what would the leisure battery have to be charged to , to power 2 pumps ?

It's currently showing about 12.8 and it's struggling to power both pumps and hose reels etc.

What do I need to do?

Thanks in advance

When you mention hose reels are you referring to manual wind up of powered reels? 

Between 12.7 & 12.8 volts from testing over the years is  fully charged battery however fully charged doesn't necessarily mean a healthy battery as it's current capacity could be lower and under load not perform 

@spruceis the king of batteries 

 

[Pjj]

Hi I've recently put a second hose reel into my van, with an additional Pump and controller but was advised that the 110amp leisure battery is sufficient to power both pumps.

Is this correct?

If this is correct what would the leisure battery have to be charged to , to power 2 pumps ?

It's currently showing about 12.8 and it's struggling to power both pumps and hose reels etc.

What do I need to do?

Thanks in advance

I would add another battery when working like you I always had 2x 115 amp batteries and never had any problems 

 

[spruce]

Hi I've recently put a second hose reel into my van, with an additional Pump and controller but was advised that the 110amp leisure battery is sufficient to power both pumps.

Is this correct?

If this is correct what would the leisure battery have to be charged to , to power 2 pumps ?

It's currently showing about 12.8 and it's struggling to power both pumps and hose reels etc.

What do I need to do?

Thanks in advance

Electric hose reels?

A 110 amp leisure battery is fine to power 2 pumps.

The trouble comes when you add electric hose reels.  If you are reeling in both electric reels at the same time, then you are drawing more than 50 amps. A standard leisure battery isn't capable of dealing with that output. It's not designed to do that.

As @Apw1210has responded, a fully charged lead acid leisure battery will read 12.7v or above after its been at rest for 4 plus hours. That's fully charged. A new 110amp leisure battery should be able to produce 110amps of power before it goes flat. However, if you want your battery to last then you should recharge a used battery asap and never let it drop below 50% charged. So a 110amp leisure battery has 55 amps of usable power.

Over time and/or incorrect treatment, a leisure battery will 'wear out.' It will still read a fully charged voltage of 12.7 or above, but it won't have the storage capacity any longer. It can best be described as a dam. When it's built, it has lots of water storage, but over time it starts to silt up. The dam will still be full, but the amount of water it holds will become less and less as more and more silt settles in the dam. When a battery does this, its sulphates.

 

[Math]

When you mention hose reels are you referring to manual wind up of powered reels? 

Between 12.7 & 12.8 volts from testing over the years is  fully charged battery however fully charged doesn't necessarily mean a healthy battery as it's current capacity could be lower and under load not perform 

@spruceis the king of batteries 

Thanks Spruce and Apw for your time.

My problem seems to be that one hose reel is taking 75% of the power.

And leaving the second hose reel useless.

Do both hose reels have to bet identical in the setup in the van?

One hose reel has 100meters of 8mm

And the other one that takes 75% of the water is using about 60 metres and 6mm.

Could this be the problem?

Thanks so much

 

[ched999uk]

Are you trying to reel in both hoses at the same time from 1 battery? If you are then even with a brand new leisure battery it's not going to cope well. 

If it were my van I would have 2 separate systems as much as possible. i.e. 2 leisure batteries - 1 pump and 1 reel on each. 

I would also look at leisure batteries that have been designed to cope with 'motor movers' as these will take a large load for a few mins at a time. 

If you can measure the voltage while you are reeling 1 hose in then that reading might give you an idea of how healthy the battery is. My guess is the battery has lost lots of its capacity (Amp Hrs) due to being over discharged or just old age and really needs replacing with a twin battery setup. 

 

[spruce]

There is never a perfect answer @Math.

My recommendation is what a supplier who knows his onions would do. GrippaTank install 2 identical leisure batteries and link them together.

As @ched999uk says, they would supply a combination battery. They call them leisure and marine batteries and have a CCA rated value. (CCA = cold cranking amps. So they can be used as starter batteries as well.) GrippaTank supply a couple of 110 amp dual purpose batteries and a 20 amp smart charger with their twin operator systems with a diesel heater. I'm sure they do the same with a system with twin hose reels.

Combination batteries are unfortunately not the best leisure batteries or the best starter batteries. You will need to fully charge that battery bank every night as well with a 20amp smart charger.

My gut is telling me your battery needs replacing. Your battery should have no problem in winding in 100 meters of minibore hose. And yes, the motor driving the reel with 60 meters of microbore will be using less current as it doesn't have to work as hard.

As I previously posted, drawing 50 amps winding in 2 electric hose reels will kill any standard leisure battery.

I forgot to add.

If you have a scr, then run the van's engine when you reel in the hose. If it solves your problem, then you 99.99% have a battery issue.

 

[Den]

I have been using two pump to electric reels with a numax 105 for years I charge every night.

just make sure you don’t reel in at same time my battery is still great shape. 

 

[Pjj]

I have been using two pump to electric reels with a numax 105 for years I charge every night.

just make sure you don’t reel in at same time my battery is still great shape. 

Dear me that’s pushing your luck ????

 

[Den]

Dear me that’s pushing your luck ????

We been running electric reels for years with just the one battery, probably put the mockers on it now ?

 

[ched999uk]

You can have motor movers installed on caravans. These are normally powered off 1 leisure battery and pull lots of power when used for moving a caravan! Looking at manufacturers they mainly just say you need more capacity ie 120Ah not 70 to 80Ah leisure batteries.

That said if you are pulling lots of current a decent Dual purpose or traction battery would last longest but as always keeping it above 50% charge will ensure it lasts well.

Most leisure batteries will probably be OK if properly charged and never taken below 50% charge.

 

[Pjj]

You can have motor movers installed on caravans. These are normally powered off 1 leisure battery and pull lots of power when used for moving a caravan! Looking at manufacturers they mainly just say you need more capacity ie 120Ah not 70 to 80Ah leisure batteries.

That said if you are pulling lots of current a decent Dual purpose or traction battery would last longest but as always keeping it above 50% charge will ensure it lasts well.

Most leisure batteries will probably be OK if properly charged and never taken below 50% charge.

I doubt a 105 amp battery running two pumps and 2 reels will stay above 50% charge .

 

[Den]

I doubt a 105 amp battery running two pumps and 2 reels will stay above 50% charge .

Proves in the pudding been using it for years might die tomorrow?  but holds a great charge on a daily basis never gets any dips or runs slow. 
was thinking about having a solar panel installed to help it keep it topped up during the day, but so not needed ?

 

[Pjj]

Proves in the pudding been using it for years might die tomorrow?  but holds a great charge on a daily basis never gets any dips or runs slow. 
was thinking about having a solar panel installed to help it keep it topped up during the day, but so not needed ?

Pumps use 5-7 amps each not sure about the reels but guessing 25+ each reel ??? So less than total of 50 amps available to use ?? Ime no good with this type of thing but that doesn’t sound anywhere near enough @spruce is the expert on this ??????

 

[ched999uk]

I doubt a 105 amp battery running two pumps and 2 reels will stay above 50% charge .

I guess it depends on usage. If people are reeling in 100m of hose 20 times a day on each reel then you are going to need 2 batteries. If you are only reeling in an average of 30m x 15 houses then you might be fine.

I guess everyone works differently, always good to know peoples in the field experience. 

 

[ched999uk]

Pumps use 5-7 amps each not sure about the reels but guessing 25+ each reel ??? So less than total of 50 amps available to use ?? Ime no good with this type of thing but that doesn’t sound anywhere near enough @spruce is the expert on this ??????

You are quite right but 25Amps per reel and 50 Amp Hours available technically means 50 Amp load for 60 minutes! So as long as you don't reel in for a total of 60mins you should have used less than 50Amp hours.

A very poor guestimate:

Say 10 amps for 2 pumps when they are running, say 40% of the day = 3.2 hrs so 10amps x 3.2hrs = 32 Amp hrs.  Say reels used 30mins total a day would be 25Amp Hrs. In total 32Ah + 25Ah = 57Ah from a 105Ah battery is 54% of the capacity which is a little over 50% but not too bad! 

No idea how accurate my guestimate is in real life ? 

 

[Den]

I guess it depends on usage. If people are reeling in 100m of hose 20 times a day on each reel then you are going to need 2 batteries. If you are only reeling in an average of 30m x 15 houses then you might be fine.

I guess everyone works differently, always good to know peoples in the field experience. 

We defo don’t run 100m out 20 times ?

out of 600+ clients only run full hose a few times a month ?

 

[Pjj]

You are quite right but 25Amps per reel and 50 Amp Hours available technically means 50 Amp load for 60 minutes! So as long as you don't reel in for a total of 60mins you should have used less than 50Amp hours.

A very poor guestimate:

Say 10 amps for 2 pumps when they are running, say 40% of the day = 3.2 hrs so 10amps x 3.2hrs = 32 Amp hrs.  Say reels used 30mins total a day would be 25Amp Hrs. In total 32Ah + 25Ah = 57Ah from a 105Ah battery is 54% of the capacity which is a little over 50% but not too bad! 

No idea how accurate my guestimate is in real life ? 

Yes but doing that every  day will kill a battery very quickly I certainly wouldn’t expect it to last years  a matter of a few months at best . 

 

[Den]

Yes but doing that every  day will kill a battery very quickly I certainly wouldn’t expect it to last years  a matter of a few months at best . 

Someone must changing my battery with exactly the same battery every few months without me knowing ??

 

[spruce]

We have to see running a hose reel off a battery two ways.

•  how many amps that hose reel draws from the power supply or capacity of the battery in one application, and
  
•  how much energy that battery has to 'cough up' to provide the current to power that hose reel.
  

If we take the hose reel requiring 25 amps of current to power it running for 30 seconds, your hose reel has theoretically only drawn 0.21 amps from the battery. If you did that 20 times in a day, that you have drawn 4.2 amps from the battery. That's basically very little. It's a similar demand your water pump uses if it ran continually for an hour using a controller.

Even with the hose reel running for a short time, that leisure battery still has to 'cough up' 25amps of current 20 times in the day. It's not the amount of current you have drawn, but the rate at which the battery has to deliver that current. A standard single leisure battery isn't designed to deliver 25amps of current over such a short time period. This is why I always suggest a combination battery with a CCA (cold cranking amps) rating, as it's halfway between a starter and leisure battery's design. But it neither a 'perfect' starter battery nor a 'perfect' leisure battery. It will, however, tolerate a higher current demand than a standard leisure battery will.

I once read that a starter motor on a 2.0 litre diesel van will draw approx 200 amps for a couple of seconds to start the engine. When put into amp hours that equates to just a little more than a Shurflo pump will draw in an hour of continuous running using a flow controller. The starter battery, however, must deliver a massive amount of current in those couple of seconds required to start the engine. (Consider that there is a brief moment in milliseconds when the battery has to content with a direct short before the starter motor starts to rotate. That's much higher draw than 200 amps.) 

 

[spruce]

I doubt a 105 amp battery running two pumps and 2 reels will stay above 50% charge .

The flatter a battery gets, the higher the rate of charge that battery will accept. We do very little mileage and our journey times are short. We very really get stuck in traffic and at most 2 or 3 sets of traffic lights. Having a battery to battery charger on board makes very little difference to recharging our leisure battery on the way home and/or back to work.

At the end of my working day a few days ago, my battery monitor told me I had used 21% of my battery capacity (drawn ± 22 amps. I did move the van a couple of times in the street, but doubt that did anything for recharging the leisure battery.) I drove home the 5 miles and the alternator had reduced that to 18%. So I have to put my leisure battery on charge every night when I get home.

If I don't, my battery will be flat within a few days.