Doing it wrong….

[Nosey]

Hi Everyone,

I hope someone doesn’t mind given me a little bit of advice…..

I’m well established and have more than a full round that I am struggling to get round. 3/4 of the work is priced right and the rest needs increasing not drastically, but in line with the new cost of living. I work on a four week basis but this keep going over because of kids, appointments etc…. I’m mostly trad, do wfp but am limited to trolley system so need to invest to have tank for ease and not barrels which are a faff. I just feel like I’m running around like a headless chicken all the time working 6 days a week. I take time off when I want too, but that’s mostly for days out with the family or holidays. This funds it but I need to find that balance. I also need to start putting more in to pension. I’m only in mid thirties but just stuck in a rut and need to come up with a new way of working that benefits me and the family properly.

Obviously the prices need updating to the right levels. I’m sure I will lose some but the others will make up for it which will free time.

I don’t know whether to get rid of some work so I can keep within the 4 weeks or change the cycle to 6 weeks which is much more simpler timeframe to work within, but just keep my commercial work on four weekly (20% of round). All my work is very compact so don’t like idea of selling work to someone, who will then be on the same road more a less than where the rest of my work is. I know you will all recommend going full wfp, which is a hell of a lot easier. But just concerned I will lose more as I keep getting told of new customers they haven’t been happy with the wfp from other cleaners. But I’m guessing it’s not the wfp just the operative? If I did go full wfp I know it’s hard for people to say as no one know my round, me or circumstances. But would that knock a huge percentage of time of the duration compared to traditional. Potentially get round all my work within the four week. I also don’t want to hire anyone at the moment.

I live in the north west and just trying to get a bit of a different perspective and wondered if anyone else has ended up in a similar situation. I’m just getting fed up with it and think it’s not the window cleaning just my inefficiency and being stuck in my ways.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Many thanks David.

 

[ched999uk]

I would say if you are running round like a headless chicken then you have too much work or have to work too many hours.
Say you put up all prices by 10% and you lost 10% of your work, you then have the same money but 10% 'spare time'.

I don't really do trad so I'm slow when I do but when I started I started with wfp, backpack out of car. I was slow, very slow, but my speed has increased massively since having a van system plus experience. I don't feel I'm doing anything faster but the more you do the more you work out hose routes round properties, exactly how far to extend your pole for every window, your technique (what order you clean windows i.e. top, right, left, glass sill, then rinse etc) etc it just all comes together to speed things up. A trolley system works but it's slow, so if you are comparing that to your trad work then you would be amazed at how much faster a van system and experience can make you, especially if it's compact work.

Switching to a 6 week cycle might work but you need more customers and ideally you charge a bit more as it's 6 weekly. That might be worth using as a wfp selling point - i.e. switch to 6 weekly wfp at same price - you will initially earn less but once up to speed you should earn more, and do more jobs, plus customer should be happy as they save money over the 12 months and get what could be a better job - I don't want to start a wfp vs trad argument but you could sell it to a customer that all frames, sills, glass is cleaned and should stay cleaner longer type of thing....

If 20% of your work is commercial and you want to keep that on a 4 weekly maybe you could schedule all that work for, say a Tuesday (towards beginning of week to cope with bad weather and no bank holidays) then the rest of your work on the other 4 days.

 

[Pjj]

Hi Everyone,

I hope someone doesn’t mind given me a little bit of advice…..

I’m well established and have more than a full round that I am struggling to get round. 3/4 of the work is priced right and the rest needs increasing not drastically, but in line with the new cost of living. I work on a four week basis but this keep going over because of kids, appointments etc…. I’m mostly trad, do wfp but am limited to trolley system so need to invest to have tank for ease and not barrels which are a faff. I just feel like I’m running around like a headless chicken all the time working 6 days a week. I take time off when I want too, but that’s mostly for days out with the family or holidays. This funds it but I need to find that balance. I also need to start putting more in to pension. I’m only in mid thirties but just stuck in a rut and need to come up with a new way of working that benefits me and the family properly.

Obviously the prices need updating to the right levels. I’m sure I will lose some but the others will make up for it which will free time.

I don’t know whether to get rid of some work so I can keep within the 4 weeks or change the cycle to 6 weeks which is much more simpler timeframe to work within, but just keep my commercial work on four weekly (20% of round). All my work is very compact so don’t like idea of selling work to someone, who will then be on the same road more a less than where the rest of my work is. I know you will all recommend going full wfp, which is a hell of a lot easier. But just concerned I will lose more as I keep getting told of new customers they haven’t been happy with the wfp from other cleaners. But I’m guessing it’s not the wfp just the operative? If I did go full wfp I know it’s hard for people to say as no one know my round, me or circumstances. But would that knock a huge percentage of time of the duration compared to traditional. Potentially get round all my work within the four week. I also don’t want to hire anyone at the moment.

I live in the north west and just trying to get a bit of a different perspective and wondered if anyone else has ended up in a similar situation. I’m just getting fed up with it and think it’s not the window cleaning just my inefficiency and being stuck in my ways.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Many thanks David.

If ones aren’t happy with the results of WFP that’s down to one of two things , either operator error or using water with a high TDS .
have you thought of employing? If you don’t want to go down that route why not in sections drastically increase the job prices say 10 houses at a time , if you loose a third it won’t matter as you will be earning more money for doing less work , if you loose the majority of the jobs you put up try reducing the amount you put them up by until you hit the sweet spot . I feel going to 6 weekly isn’t beneficial to you , 4 weekly is the best for you as less customers needed windows aren’t to dirty and it’s easier to manage , obviously what you decide to do is up to you but this is what I have done for years and it’s worked for me .

 

[Bart90]

Hi Everyone,

I hope someone doesn’t mind given me a little bit of advice…..

I’m well established and have more than a full round that I am struggling to get round. 3/4 of the work is priced right and the rest needs increasing not drastically, but in line with the new cost of living. I work on a four week basis but this keep going over because of kids, appointments etc…. I’m mostly trad, do wfp but am limited to trolley system so need to invest to have tank for ease and not barrels which are a faff. I just feel like I’m running around like a headless chicken all the time working 6 days a week. I take time off when I want too, but that’s mostly for days out with the family or holidays. This funds it but I need to find that balance. I also need to start putting more in to pension. I’m only in mid thirties but just stuck in a rut and need to come up with a new way of working that benefits me and the family properly.

Obviously the prices need updating to the right levels. I’m sure I will lose some but the others will make up for it which will free time.

I don’t know whether to get rid of some work so I can keep within the 4 weeks or change the cycle to 6 weeks which is much more simpler timeframe to work within, but just keep my commercial work on four weekly (20% of round). All my work is very compact so don’t like idea of selling work to someone, who will then be on the same road more a less than where the rest of my work is. I know you will all recommend going full wfp, which is a hell of a lot easier. But just concerned I will lose more as I keep getting told of new customers they haven’t been happy with the wfp from other cleaners. But I’m guessing it’s not the wfp just the operative? If I did go full wfp I know it’s hard for people to say as no one know my round, me or circumstances. But would that knock a huge percentage of time of the duration compared to traditional. Potentially get round all my work within the four week. I also don’t want to hire anyone at the moment.

I live in the north west and just trying to get a bit of a different perspective and wondered if anyone else has ended up in a similar situation. I’m just getting fed up with it and think it’s not the window cleaning just my inefficiency and being stuck in my ways.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Many thanks David.

Switching to WFP will shrink the time considerably.

Poor WFP results are usually down to the user but there are some windows that can be a pain in the ....... there are always work arounds though once you know your problem jobs.

You don't need a van and tank to switch to WFP. My advice would be to focus on switching with what you've got now, then see where you are after that. If you're worried about losing customers because of WFP, switch parts of your round at a time before you move to the next. That's what I did.

I work using a trolley/Gardiner back pack. Although there's a convenience with a van and a tank, I don't believe having it makes you any more profitable.

Best of luck.

 

[Deleted member 15640]

@Nosey hello David. Sorry to read you are overworked mate. Personally I wouldn't switch to 6 weekly if your customers are happy with 4 weekly. I do 6 weekly and as @ched999uk said you'd need more customers overall. If any of the work isn't very nice/convenient work you could consider passing or selling it on. I do a mix of water fed and traditional (traditional only on small bungalows). On normal houses I used to do all traditional, and then went wfp on top windows and squeegee on lower windows, and then mostly wfp. Wfp is quite a bit quicker and better than lugging a ladder around the property. I moved house last year and can't afford a van now as we sank all of our savings into moving, but I know for fact I'd get more work done with one. I use a backpack and trolley and it's fine, but I'm considering building a pump box and feeding it through my larger water containers on some jobs to help speed up. As for customers not liking wfp, I have found some don't care how their windows are cleaned, some have had a poor experience with a wfp cleaner, and some just want you up a ladder regardless.
PS. Completely agree with you regarding feeling inefficient sometimes. Some days we seem to get through work fairly quick and very few issues, other times we seem to find loads of faults and delays - you question yourself on what on earth you're doing wrong. I think it's normal to feel like that so don't beat yourself up.

 

[Iron Giant]

Ultimately if you haven't got complete structured days and are taking time off you are going to fall behind, once up to speed with wfp you will complete work faster that's a fact, but it will take a while to convert your rounds and get up to standard.

Having too much work will sicken you off as well as working Saturdays and losing money through not completing all your jobs, you need the right balance of jobs, I know this because I was in a similar situation this year I had worked since 2020 with too much work but just kept going I got totally fed up this year, through losing jobs for various reasons house moves etc and me dropping work that I just couldn't be chewed with anymore and 6 months or later right now I'm down to a manageable level and a 4 day week and not chewing my wick out.

When I switched to wfp over 16 years ago most people didn't care how their windows were cleaned I got some complaints as I learned as there wasn't all the free information and videos online back then but customers stuck with me, some dropped me despite after more than 6 months of cleaning their windows wfp and nothing been wrong with the windows they wanted them done trad they had no idea how I'd be cleaning their windows for the last 6 months until they off work one day.

The issues with wfp are down to the operator as plenty don't give a stuff and don't put the time and effort into their work they give wfp a bad reputation, tell your customers you need to switch to keep yourself safe with two feet on the ground and a young family to provide for 99.9% will understand and appreciate your reasons once you mention the reasons for switching

 

[Deleted member 15640]

@Iron Giant completely agree, your work has to be a manageable level. Horrible feeling like your chasing your tail all the time.

I had similar a few years ago. I'd cleaned a house for ages using wfp. The lady didn't seem to be bothered and just wanted clean windows. One day her husband was in. They were both oap's but he still worked. He went ballistic and they had a massive argument in front of me and my wife (we work together). The lady was telling him they'd been done like that for months on end but he was having none of it and said he'd clean them himself from then on.

 

[ched999uk]

Completely agree with you regarding feeling inefficient sometimes. Some days we seem to get through work fairly quick and very few issues, other times we seem to find loads of faults and delays - you question yourself on what on earth you're doing wrong. I think it's normal to feel like that so don't beat yourself up.

I thought that was just me . Most days go well but others just don't seem to flow and lots of little things just seem to slow me right down.

 

[Deleted member 15640]

I thought that was just me . Most days go well but others just don't seem to flow and lots of little things just seem to slow me right down.

No it's not just you mate. I seem to be absolutely fine some days. Other days I seem to be going back and forth, and then I'll forget something, or there's couple of delays and it seems to snowball from there lol.

 

[Clean Pro]

If ones aren’t happy with the results of WFP that’s down to one of two things , either operator error or using water with a high TDS .
have you thought of employing? If you don’t want to go down that route why not in sections drastically increase the job prices say 10 houses at a time , if you loose a third it won’t matter as you will be earning more money for doing less work , if you loose the majority of the jobs you put up try reducing the amount you put them up by until you hit the sweet spot . I feel going to 6 weekly isn’t beneficial to you , 4 weekly is the best for you as less customers needed windows aren’t to dirty and it’s easier to manage , obviously what you decide to do is up to you but this is what I have done for years and it’s worked for me .

Do do you make your own zero ppm or do you go to a grocery store? In Canada most of the time I go into my local Canadian tire and it’s one dollar to get a 20 L fill of zero ppm so I found it easier for commercial store for especially just to keep 200 L with a 12 V or I can switch to 110 V pump. Just keep it in the back of my van and that seems to work for storefront work, especially

 

[Pjj]

Do do you make your own zero ppm or do you go to a grocery store? In Canada most of the time I go into my local Canadian tire and it’s one dollar to get a 20 L fill of zero ppm so I found it easier for commercial store for especially just to keep 200 L with a 12 V or I can switch to 110 V pump. Just keep it in the back of my van and that seems to work for storefront work, especially

I make my own water my tap TDS here is low anyway between 80-95 usually, the nearest place I could buy water is approximately 140 miles away .

 

[Myles Embleton]

I would seriously think about investing in a Van mounted system instead of using a trolley and convert all your work to WFP. I started in May/June this way and I’m doing 1/3 more each day and not working any more hours. You’ll make your initial investment back in no time and keep up with your workload with no issues.

 

[DS WC west midlands]

Sounds like you need to stick to four weekly & edit how you are working, i do two weeks of window cleans ten cleans a day all WFP, the rest of the month i either clean gutters or driveways, roofs or do TFR cleans... since your struggling, it's really time for you to make the switch to WFP...

Trolly trad & backpack will only get you so far, if it's time you want to save, full van mounted system is the way to go it just takes all the hassle out of the work..

You will lose only the hardcore trad customers & normally they are the ones who are unreliable to work with...

but if you can do TFR cleans as first cleans you might well keep them when they see the results. I would avoid six weekly at all costs it's not reliable for repeat business & gives the customer too much of a chance to grumble & leave your services or at least that's what happens in my area.

that's just been my experience others may have a different experience... I find the two weeks of doing something else really helps to break up the cycle but getting the work is the trick.. regardless trad has it's place on shop work and hard access, but WFP & TFR cleans have more than proven their worth for helping to get trad customers to convert, make sure you spend time detailing after the TFR with a stain remover and you will do just fine...

oddly enough i see a lot of noobs and even some well established cleaners come and go each year, most of them are just not suited to the life and need to go back to the 9-5, it's what they are best at and there is no shame in it, at least they tried... window cleaning is not for everyone..
WFP for the win if your staying good luck

 

[Richyconnett]

I would go to a van system straight away. Switch to a 6 week schedule only working 5 weeks with the 6th off. Raise your prices . I would have a breakdown mentally and physically if I had to work 6 days a week with no sign of a break

 

[Iron Giant]

@Iron Giant completely agree, your work has to be a manageable level. Horrible feeling like your chasing your tail all the time.

I had similar a few years ago. I'd cleaned a house for ages using wfp. The lady didn't seem to be bothered and just wanted clean windows. One day her husband was in. They were both oap's but he still worked. He went ballistic and they had a massive argument in front of me and my wife (we work together). The lady was telling him they'd been done like that for months on end but he was having none of it and said he'd clean them himself from then on.

It used to eat me up, but these days I couldn't care at all.

I wonder if he sat working out how much money you might be making in a short time and got peed off because he thought to himself you are doing better than him.

 

[Deleted member 15640]

It used to eat me up, but these days I couldn't care at all.

I wonder if he sat working out how much money you might be making in a short time and got peed off because he thought to himself you are doing better than him.

I don't know what he was thinking mate. I think sometimes people are just obsessed you go up a ladder. I see it on local fb groups sometimes "I don't want the brush on a stick" type posts. He was a handyman so it's like me telling him telling him he couldn't use an electric saw or he had to use a paintbrush rather than a roller for his job .

 

[Nosey]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for all the responses. Really helpful advice and different perspectives. It is time I take the plunge and switch to wfp even just for all the tops on all my work.its just not worth it and I need to make the business work for me. Not me work for it which is what its become. I’m gonna take a red pen to my customer base this weekend. Slash all the customers off which are more hassle than they are worth and come up with a more manageable, structured weekly routine which benefits me on a four weekly and then compare it to running my current workload on a six weekly. Compare the current figures and what will work best with my life.

I’m worn out all the time and this isn’t how should be.

I will let you know how I get on.

Much appreciated

 

[Iron Giant]

Personally I'd evaluate your rounds and suss out the best 4 weekly option, 400 jobs is near enough the sweet spot 25 jobs or so a day is easily doable,

If you were switching to 6 weekly you'd need 85 to 100 jobs each week so if you are way off 600 jobs then you switching to 6 weekly wouldn't be worth it, unless you plan on canvassing

Drop the messers ,increase prices and switch to the wfp and you'll get some natural losses from those wanting trad, then you'll be see how things are.

 

[Nosey]

Sounds like you need to stick to four weekly & edit how you are working, i do two weeks of window cleans ten cleans a day all WFP, the rest of the month i either clean gutters or driveways, roofs or do TFR cleans... since your struggling, it's really time for you to make the switch to WFP...

Trolly trad & backpack will only get you so far, if it's time you want to save, full van mounted system is the way to go it just takes all the hassle out of the work..

You will lose only the hardcore trad customers & normally they are the ones who are unreliable to work with...

but if you can do TFR cleans as first cleans you might well keep them when they see the results. I would avoid six weekly at all costs it's not reliable for repeat business & gives the customer too much of a chance to grumble & leave your services or at least that's what happens in my area.

that's just been my experience others may have a different experience... I find the two weeks of doing something else really helps to break up the cycle but getting the work is the trick.. regardless trad has it's place on shop work and hard access, but WFP & TFR cleans have more than proven their worth for helping to get trad customers to convert, make sure you spend time detailing after the TFR with a stain remover and you will do just fine...

oddly enough i see a lot of noobs and even some well established cleaners come and go each year, most of them are just not suited to the life and need to go back to the 9-5, it's what they are best at and there is no shame in it, at least they tried... window cleaning is not for everyone..
WFP for the win if your staying good luck

What is TFR? Is that a daft question

One of the workers on a commercial job saw me using the water fed pole once and asked me if I was using ‘zero gravity water’ don’t know where he got that name from.

 

[Nosey]

Personally I'd evaluate your rounds and suss out the best 4 weekly option, 400 jobs is near enough the sweet spot 25 jobs or so a day is easily doable,

If you were switching to 6 weekly you'd need 85 to 100 jobs each week so if you are way off 600 jobs then you switching to 6 weekly wouldn't be worth it, unless you plan on canvassing

Drop the messers ,increase prices and switch to the wfp and you'll get some natural losses from those wanting trad, then you'll be see how things are.

Ideally that’s what I’m hoping will be the best scenario four weekly. How many hours in day do you normally do? 25 hours guessing that’s semi detached/ detached?

 

[Iron Giant]

Ideally that’s what I’m hoping will be the best scenario four weekly. How many hours in day do you normally do? 25 hours guessing that’s semi detached/ detached?

I'm usually out the house for 7 hours or so, 25 houses yes usually semis and detached but variations across the days,

I don't flog on most days I just go whatever pace I want, some days I can do 30 houses on really compact stuff other days less than 20 with big detached houses and semi-detached