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Any other tin foil hat wearers?

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steve garwood said:
If it means I can get back into my local, they can stick a harpoon in my arm ?
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Unfortunately no you can't. You will still wear a mask, you will still social distance, you will still carry and pass on Covid you will still have to pay £1700 to stay in a hotel for ten days when you comeback if you go abroad. But still have the vaccine and the booster in October for the new variants. Maybe next year you can go back the pub.. O they may have gone bust by then....and there will be more variants no doubt because that's what viruses do - mutate. You will need some more vaccines as well by then. 

 
Bart90 said:
Do you know how minisucle these particals are?  Unless you wear a mask that is correctly seal tight it isn't going to work.  Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say it stops one larger virus particle from infecting Mrs Smith from a head on infection when I sneeze (we'll ignore the particles that have ricoceted out the side and hit unsuspecting Mr Jones).  When that shop assistant has made it damp from breathing on it and touched it several times,  then goes to help Mrs Bloggs pack her shopping....she'll leave the virus on her cornflakes box or change. 

Van Tam in the video you describe as 'Conspiracy theorist' says in 15 years of pandemic planning masks have always been a subject of debate - he said that around May 2020.  The link you posted originated in 2019, I'm sure he'd have been aware of those?  Anyway, I'll have a proper look at your link tomorrow and see what I make of it.  

As for your support for a vaccine passport for a virus with a survival rate of 99.7%, I just despair at the totalitarian sights you've set your hopes on.  We'll need a passport next for the common cold and it's 200 variants.
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You're quoting so many untruths it really is staggering you can be this misinformed yet so confident in your position at the same time. Virus particles don't travel on their own, they travel on droplets, all the mask has to do is stop the droplets from being expelled into the air. Here's a great study that goes into the effectiveness of different facemasks - https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083.full

The previous link I posted on masks was last updated November 2020. Again it's strange that you're putting so much faith in some old science but you're completely ignoring the up to date stuff. That would suggest your position is immovable no matter the evidence. 

99.7% is just another figure plucked out of your **** with absolutely nothing to back it up. The IFR differs between countries but in a rich country with a higher percentage of elderly citizens it's estimated to be 1.15%.  May sound small on the face of it but a 1.15% infection fatality rate with tens of millions of cases turns into a big number very quickly -https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-34-ifr/

Your final comment is absolutely laughable but I think the worst part is you comparing something as mundane as a vaccine passport to totalitarianism which is a genuine evil which many have lost their lives to. Just goes to show how detached from reality you are. 

 
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A letter published in the British Medical Journal (BMJ) from a retired NHS general practitioner doctor, on 6th Feb 2021:
"Covid-19: Murder by Misinformation
Dear Editor
History is littered with examples of the atrocities which ensue when doctors abandon their traditional principles and judgement in favour of unquestioning subservience to government diktat – medical involvement in torture, human experimentation and psychiatric punishment of political dissidents being familiar examples.
Abbasi takes as axiomatic that there was no prior immunity in the population, that lockdowns are effective, that computer modelling is realistic, that statistics have been accurate and that WHO statements are reliable. All of these parameters have been widely challenged by knowledgeable and conscientious researchers whose findings were often disregarded, censored or vilified.
From a medical perspective, it was clear early on in the crisis that disregarding clinical acumen in favour of blind obedience to abnormal ventilation measures, reliance on an unsuitable laboratory test for diagnosis and management, and abandoning the duty of care to elderly hospitalised patients and those awaiting diagnosis and treatment of serious diseases, would create severe problems down the line.
Doctors who had empirically found effective pharmaceutical remedies and preventative treatments were ignored, or worse, denigrated or silenced. Information regarding helpful dietary supplements was suppressed.
This was further compounded by rule-changes to death certification, coroners’ instructions, autopsy guidelines, DNR notices and the cruel social isolation policy enforcement regarding family visits to the sick and dying.
When medical professionals allow themselves to be manipulated by corrupt politicians and influenced by media propaganda instead of being guided by their own ethical principles and common sense based on decades of clinical experience, the outlook becomes very bleak indeed.
Historically, public respect for and trust in doctors has exceeded that awarded to politicians. The unquestioning capitulation of medicine to an authoritarian executive and predatory corporate power may have undermined the doctor-patient relationship for a generation.
Janet Menage
GP retired

 
Danfire said:
SSWC. You seem to have some decent links. Have you got any that can debunk the graph that showed a higher % mortality for every year in the 90's than 2020?
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In that article I linked to. The statistics are pretty much bang on in the graph you showed but it’s about how you interpret the data. 
 

  90E4660C-4C07-4ABE-9FEB-96211283F81C.png
 

  5B78C3C8-4854-4C21-95B6-5F34FE65F7D9.png

 
spruce said:
It is interesting that this is the first winter I haven't had a cold for a very long time. 

I believe that the measures taken to curb the spread of the virus have had this result for me. The wife hasn't had a cold either which is also interesting.
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Had a bad cold last September that lasted longer than normal as it happens. Self isolated although had no high temp, loss of taste etc. Just could not be ars** to explain to custies etc it was just a cold.

 
ksp said:
Putting aside the abrasive edge of some of the replies as we’ve all made up and I appreciate the fact it’s impassioned speech due to the realities of the situation, plus everyone’s a good sort on this site which can’t be said for everywhere ? I agree with most of what SSC said which surprises me as I was concerned I was drifting politically from the middle to the right politically based on what I’ve interpreted as the left moving further left. 
 

What’s interesting is it seems like people now have their own facts, sometimes pseudo facts based on the sources of information they’re consuming them from, which was usually politically, now more often financially motivated. That often makes these interactions impossible as people have become so entrenched in one position on either side and unwilling or unable to move. I include myself in this, for a quite a while now everything I would watch and read screamed to me that being white and male is bad, the sins of the father are the sins of the son and you can’t redeem yourself from this. So I would seek out sources that aren’t saying that, which usually have other ideas I wouldn’t have contemplated, nor really given the time of the day until coming across them. 
 

I think that people can and are entitled to believe what they want, as long as everyone approaches the current guidance in good faith and wears the mask in stores, tries to keep their distance, we are all in it together. 
 

That said, what does everyone think on the origin of the virus based on the WHO saying it came on the back of frozen fish from a country that’s not been identified? 
 

My own sensibilities and Occam’s razor tells me it had accidentally escaped from the lab a few hundred meters away working on corona viruses.

As always, if they come back with information saying they’ve found the country and the fish it started in, I’ll change my mind based on the new evidence and new likeliest scenario. 
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A Lab.

 
Davy G said:
I think I agree with everything you say @ksp. I have no doubt that the virus originated in the Wuhan lab. I never had any doubt. Am I certain? No of course not. I have no conclusive, personal proof but I have the proven reliable gut instincts of a hunter gatherer.

My reasons for suspicion : I think it's highly likely that the market and the laboratory were built beside each other deliberately regardless of which was built first. The market being perfect cover to take the blame in the event of a virus escaping from the lab, whether that be by accident or by design.

Whistle blowing staff at the lab have as far as I know disappeared to never be heard from again.

The WHO did a recent inspection and declared all's well, but it took them over a year to gain access!! Could it be that a bit of a clear up of equipment, labs and files might have taken place in that time, along with the staff being told what to say if they know what's good for them? Could it be possible that bribery of WHO officials took place? Surely not. ?

This virus has been let loose on the world and we're running around like a nest of ants being p....d on. We're trying to sort ourselves out and find out who we can blame at a national level. We should be bringing it to the door of the perpetrator, China. But that's difficult. They are now such a strong and aggressive country with huge military might and a financial and manufacturing strangle hold on so many once strong countries. We make so little of our own these days that we have become pretty much dependent on Chinese imports.
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Staff being told and coached what to say....SNP

 
THL4KEL said:
Unfortunately no you can't. You will still wear a mask, you will still social distance, you will still carry and pass on Covid you will still have to pay £1700 to stay in a hotel for ten days when you comeback if you go abroad. But still have the vaccine and the booster in October for the new variants. Maybe next year you can go back the pub.. O they may have gone bust by then....and there will be more variants no doubt because that's what viruses do - mutate. You will need some more vaccines as well by then. 
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Have you got a link to the Crystal ball you use please?

 
steve garwood said:
Have you got a link to the Crystal ball you use please?
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steve garwood said:
No they won’t ?
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Can we have the link to yours too?  Excess drinking and Alcohol puts huge amounts of pressure on the NHS...so why not limit it to reduce the pressure on the NHS so they can have more time to concentrate on non alcohol related issues....

 
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I wonder how many window cleaners would have a different opinion on lockdowns and how the pandemic has been handled had they not been able to work like other industries?

I have actually spoke with residential window cleaners who have said the current situation is great for business.

Lost a couple of £15 jobs had a claim up.Most are probably on track for their best year.

 
SSWC said:
There's untold amounts of evidence, I've posted a link with 45 peer reviewed studies. The Damask study was more in terms of the protection given to the wearer, that's never been the point of masks. The whole point is source control, wearing one prevents the wearer from spreading the virus meaning it's other people that mainly benefit, not necessarily the wearer. 

In my opinion all of the disinformation around masks, lockdowns, death figures, pretty much everything has deluded people into thinking it isn't serious. A comfortable lie is more palatable than an uncomfortable truth. 
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I haven't got the energy or time to waste trying to find an actual clinical trial that 'proves' masks are of benefit.  Can you provide a link to a clinical trial so I can review the evidence.  

Here's a clinical trial I came across that leads me to question the effectiveness of widespread mask use by the general public.  If medically trained professionals can't stop the spreading of a virus using protective equipment in a clinical environment then I really question how joe blogs pulling a mask out his pocket with no washing of hands before and after and regularly touching the mask... I question whether he will fare much better.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6263164/

I believe what Bart90 said about how the masks make it spread in the supermarkets is worth at least investing the money and time to do clinical trials.  It would be really easy to do this, just roll up to one supermarket with a research team armed with all the kit, then test everybody coming out, test their masks, shopping, bags etc, then close the store and clear everybody out and test the whole store.  The reason why they haven't done this baffles me and the way people don't question why they haven't done this baffles me.  Surely it's something that warrants finding an 'exact' answer to, not just presuming things, and having a 'science based opinion'.

Like how many people would trust a vaccine if they just 'think it probably works'?  Imagine giving out the vaccine without a clinical trial.

All medicine and science relies on facts, that's how they usually operate, however with the masks they seem to be copying what the Maya's did, sacrifice people, keep chucking them into volcanoes to please the gods to make it rain.  It worked didn't it?  Chuck enough people in the volcanoes and it eventually rained so it must be right, right???  The masks are the modern day equivalent.

 
The Government tell us what they think we can handle and media outlets aren't to be trusted either the BBC talks as much ? at times as Doris, 

Slightly off topic, the BBC did a documentary about 2 years ago on Raw feeding on animals more so dogs as there has been a exponential growth in raw feeding in recent years, it was full lies and even a vet who had to have written a paper as they have to in these studies as that's what they have to do and it has to be published the report to this day still hasn't appeared, vets and their colleges are funded by the big players in pet food industry which are multi billion £££ companies, 

if anyone to this day thinks we are been told the whole truth and nothing but the truth ? ?

 
So we must abide by the ‘experts’ on here.

Pubs definitely won’t be open until next year, and those of us who drink must stop as we are a burden to the NHS ??

 
steve garwood said:
So we must abide by the ‘experts’ on here.

Pubs definitely won’t be open until next year, and those of us who drink must stop as we are a burden to the NHS ??
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Calm down, Steve! You'll give yourself a Connery! Roll your sleeve up. We'll check your blood pressure again.

Mine needs looking at as well. I'm pining terribly for the sea. ??

 
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steve garwood said:
Pubs definitely won’t be open until next year, and those of us who drink must stop as we are a burden to the NHS
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Have you seen the amount of duty and vat on alcohol - it must be funding a good % of NHS.

Boris suggesting schools open 8th March, then non essential retail, then hospitality - so maybe by June pubs will be open?

 

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