Anyone’s round effected by VAT to your domestic round ?

[Teaboy]

Dave I have 20 staff(we do internal aswell and 3 vans of 2 lads if you want to ask any questions dm me for my mobile.

There’s so many factors that go into it

Training staffing expenses weather staffing staffing staffing lol


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[Dave Shaw]

Firstly you trusted the words of a car salesman? Whatever he told you he makes, divide that by three and that is the true figure or closer too.
 
I left my job as a phone shop manager a few years back to be a car sales manager for Evans Halshaw. The staff turnover was horrific. I lasted 2 months and in that time I saw 7 people leave. Met a chap there who used to run a very successful dealership of his own. He leaned too far towards not working but taking a wage and his sales team ran the dealership into the ground. He went from driving an RS6, taking a healthy wage and living in a million pound house with a wife and kids to living in his dads spare room, divorced, working for minimum wage + commission (as a sales assistant for Evans Halshaw) and tryna sell some dodgy second hand motors that he paid far too much for from his dads drive in his spare time....
 
You have asked a lot of questions similar to me recently Dave so I assume you are relatively new to this game although I could be wrong. You cross me as someone who is looking for a quick buck, you want to find the elevator to success. Spend too long looking for the lift and you will realise how far you could have got taking the stairs. I mean this with the greatest of respect because you've never crossed me as a rude or arrogant chap but if there was a magic ticket everyone would buy it. 

I don’t need to trust him, his house,car and lifestyle kinda tell the story.
Even though I’ve been in this game since leaving school nearly twenty years ago I am relatively new to the business side of things and over the last couple of years I’ve been thinking about vat reg’s, employees etc and if all seems like a bit of a minefield with all the restrictions and stuff and I just wanna gather as much info as possible rather than jumping in feet first and then having regrets or even getting in too deep that there’s no way back. Anything I have said is not from my own experiences or opinion but just a repetition of advise from many other business/tradesman in all different trades.


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[P4dstar]

I don’t need to trust him, his house,car and lifestyle kinda tell the story.
Even though I’ve been in this game since leaving school nearly twenty years ago I am relatively new to the business side of things and over the last couple of years I’ve been thinking about vat reg’s, employees etc and if all seems like a bit of a minefield with all the restrictions and stuff and I just wanna gather as much info as possible rather than jumping in feet first and then having regrets or even getting in too deep that there’s no way back. Anything I have said is not from my own experiences or opinion but just a repetition of advise from many other business/tradesman in all different trades.

I'm just saying some things are a little different once you scratch below the surface. I could put a £2K deposit down and lease a Nissan GTR for a grand a month, that doesn't mean I can afford it. Every time I log into my bank account it tells me I am pre approved for a 50K loan, again that doesn't mean I can afford it. Sales people like to brag, trust me I was one until 6 weeks ago when I went full time with this.

I'm not saying there aren't other options to make money but a wise person once told me 'if someone tells you they're poor take money from them, if someone tells you they're rich give them some'.

I don't share with people the hourly rate I have made in this job, not even my best friends! I might tell them when I've had a busy day or that I picked up 12 customers last week etc but the financials are private. With 20 years experience you shouldn't give this up for something else but I think it is worth investing in a few things. A plumber mate of mine bought a house in Merthyr Tydfil for 25K and rents it out, small investment as investments go but it gives him a little trickle income into another account and he does very little for it. It is run as an independent business so won't touch his VAT etc. There are little nuggets like this everywhere but most success stories are people who started from the bottom and worked up the ladder. @scottish cleaning service mentioned Arnold Clark, Duncan Banatyne is another favourite of mine. Sure there are some people who get lucky, my next door neighbour won a million on the lottery, he's still a pillock haha. People who rush to the 'top' are very quick to flash the cash and tell you all about it, people who work hard for it are more modest and much quieter about their money. You also find that they look after things a lot more. Just don't be blinded by what people like that tell you about their riches, its normally fools gold.

I think both arguments surrounding VAT are valid. I can see why people want to stay below it. I personally think when you are nearly there it is time to squirrel away some money to launch into paying VAT correctly. @Green Pro Clean Ltd talked about multi vans etc but those vans wouldn't have full rounds immediately so having some money behind you before you tip the VAT threshold would be pretty handy!

 

[Dave Shaw]

Dave I have 20 staff(we do internal aswell and 3 vans of 2 lads if you want to ask any questions dm me for my mobile.

There’s so many factors that go into it

Training staffing expenses weather staffing staffing staffing lol


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Cheers buddy. I’m sure I’ll be picking your brain in the near future. Like I said I’m still very undecided on we’re I want to go as of yet.


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[Dave Shaw]

I'm just saying some things are a little different once you scratch below the surface. I could put a £2K deposit down and lease a Nissan GTR for a grand a month, that doesn't mean I can afford it. Every time I log into my bank account it tells me I am pre approved for a 50K loan, again that doesn't mean I can afford it. Sales people like to brag, trust me I was one until 6 weeks ago when I went full time with this.
 
I'm not saying there aren't other options to make money but a wise person once told me 'if someone tells you they're poor take money from them, if someone tells you they're rich give them some'.
 
I don't share with people the hourly rate I have made in this job, not even my best friends! I might tell them when I've had a busy day or that I picked up 12 customers last week etc but the financials are private. With 20 years experience you shouldn't give this up for something else but I think it is worth investing in a few things. A plumber mate of mine bought a house in Merthyr Tydfil for 25K and rents it out, small investment as investments go but it gives him a little trickle income into another account and he does very little for it. It is run as an independent business so won't touch his VAT etc. There are little nuggets like this everywhere but most success stories are people who started from the bottom and worked up the ladder. [mention=6216]scottish cleaning service[/mention] mentioned Arnold Clark, Duncan Banatyne is another favourite of mine. Sure there are some people who get lucky, my next door neighbour won a million on the lottery, he's still a pillock haha. People who rush to the 'top' are very quick to flash the cash and tell you all about it, people who work hard for it are more modest and much quieter about their money. You also find that they look after things a lot more. Just don't be blinded by what people like that tell you about their riches, its normally fools gold.
 
I think both arguments surrounding VAT are valid. I can see why people want to stay below it. I personally think when you are nearly there it is time to squirrel away some money to launch into paying VAT correctly. [mention=1930]Green Pro Clean Ltd[/mention] talked about multi vans etc but those vans wouldn't have full rounds immediately so having some money behind you before you tip the VAT threshold would be pretty handy!

I hear you mate I really do but I’m not talking £80000 Nissans, I’m talking limited edition Ferrari’s and £450000 Bentleys and his 2million house that he built himself. All that’s beside my point though and that was not how much he’s now makin but how much hes financially achieved in a few years of selling cars compared to fifteen years as a domestic window cleaner. I’m not saying it can’t be done just there are many other things I would look into if I was starting a business and planning to go big.


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[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

implementing it and pulling it off.
When you do I’ll be the first to pat you on the back but until then your not really on a pos

This isn't about pulling anything off m8 this isn't about 'throwing around figures' either it's about mean averages.    

Operators I know 'down south' have double digit vans out and lads comfortably doing £400 plus a day.  These aren't imaginary figures but matters of public record when you run checks on large Ltd companies.  

Then there are lads I know 'up north' (Newcastle, Sheffield etc) doing a leisurely £250 per day (again public record) 

The math is not 'what may happen' the math is what will happen if you want to grow into VAT territory Dave.  At end of day how you go is your choice and yours alone but the figures don't change. 

 

[Dave Shaw]

This isn't about pulling anything off m8 this isn't about 'throwing around figures' either it's about mean averages.    
Operators I know 'down south' have double digit vans out and lads comfortably doing £400 plus a day.  These aren't imaginary figures but matters of public record when you run checks on large Ltd companies.  
Then there are lads I know 'up north' (Newcastle, Sheffield etc) doing a leisurely £250 per day (again public record) 
The math is not 'what may happen' the math is what will happen if you want to grow into VAT territory Dave.  At end of day how you go is your choice and yours alone but the figures don't change. 

I know you wasn’t just plucking numbers out of thin air as I can achieve those numbers myself. Things start to change when you factor in vans breaking down, equipment failing and temperamental staff. Even with things running smoothly and hitting your ten grand a year profit per van then you would still need at least 8 vans to be able to earn more than an unregistered sole trader(that’s if you wasn’t working yourself of course which is what I’m guessing that your aiming for). I’m not trying to put you down and I really hope it works for you. Just sayin it’s not for me.


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[Teaboy]

I know you wasn’t just plucking numbers out of thin air as I can achieve those numbers myself. Things start to change when you factor in vans breaking down, equipment failing and temperamental staff. Even with things running smoothly and hitting your ten grand a year profit per van then you would still need at least 8 vans to be able to earn more than an unregistered sole trader(that’s if you wasn’t working yourself of course which is what I’m guessing that your aiming for). I’m not trying to put you down and I really hope it works for you. Just sayin it’s not for me.


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Again I could twist all these arguments to suit each case

Very very simply

Sole trader you will cap out taking home £50k a year tops

Running multiple vans well the sky is the limit but it’s a lot harder

The real value comes when you start talking about sales value.

Sole trader you’ll be lucky to have a business worth £50k on the open market,

Soon as you start getting multiple vans and revenue streams, again the sky is the limit


It comes down to what you want long term short term and needs


This isn’t a one box solution


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[Guest]

I genuinely find the issue being what you’re prepared to reinvest in the company.

You could pull a good wage or carry on building. That certainly seems to be my choice.

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I genuinely find the issue being what you’re prepared to reinvest in the company.

You could pull a good wage or carry on building. That certainly seems to be my choice.

Did you get that P.M. mate? 

 

[Guest]

Did you get that P.M. mate? 

No mate. I’ll give you a call in a couple of hours re leads.

Ole

 

[scottish cleaning service]

In the end one doesn't know till one try's it. That's what I have always found out much better to experience it. When I became a fireman I thought the job was all about fighting fires and rescuing folk all the time. Now I know that that is between 1 and 2% of the time in the job. Most of the time is taken up by training and daily, weekly or monthly checks on all the equipment. With line rescue, defibs, trauma care, vulnerable people, RTA's, multi storey cladding, open water rescue, terrorism, Boat carbon monoxide, animal rescue, blue light training, asbestos awareness, chemical incidents, 2005 care act on care homes, gas explosions, diving equipment, these are just some of the new things in place. At a FAI a lawyer will ask to see everyone's training records to see if the employee is fully trained. If not, then the firemaster will get sued and it will cost the service thousands or millions in money. So that's why Public Service is fully focused on training their staff or should be.