Battle of the batteries

[dazmond]

I have 2 x105ah numax batteries in tandem(the same model as the one in your first pic).....they are over 3 years old and still going strong powering a 9kw diesel heater,electric reel and pump.....I charge them every night with a 20amp numax commercial charger... I also have a smart split charge relay fitted.....best batteries I've ever bought!normally batteries last me 12-18 months and their toast!?

 

[Davy G]

I think a lot, if not most operators are stopping short in the issue of battery power. Single battery at a time is one of the biggest mistakes, in my opinion. Not using a vehicle charging system ~Split charger (Durite, in our case) or whatever suits the vehicle is another. Not having two really beefy batteries linked in parallel fitted permanently in the van is another. I use two Numax xv35mf's linked. I have done for about five years. I've never mains charged them. Two of us using manual reels and two pumps, can work a six or eight hour day (five or six is our average) mostly doing only very moderate mileage.

The battery read out before starting the engine in the morning is usually around the 12.4 volts. A modest enough level, but that's a big amount of power when it's contained in two 120 AH batteries combined, giving a combined theoretical capacity of 240 AH. I would think we might be storing about 180~amps as a guess. I don't know and I don't need to. Having two large capacity batteries combined rather than one doing all the work equates to a large reservoir which means neither is working hard, both working together are just cruising. This, I'm sure is why my batteries last so long.

Our voltage through the day fluctuates between 12.2 and around 12.8, mostly 12.4~12.5. With the engine running as a test, it's well over 13v.

We work with the engine off. This slight but regular fluctuation, with the frequent, short burst input from the SCR as we travel between jobs is, in my opinion, keeping the batteries fresh and lively.

Experts at the battery manufacturers would probably disagree. Some of you know my opinion on experts. All I can say, as I've said many times before is ; "It works extremely well for us."

 

[Eric gorman]

What make and ampere is that battery? thanks

Super bat 12 v

 

[steve garwood]

Thank for your replies gentlemen.

Those using two batteries in tandem, how are you connecting them please, and presumably your connections (controller etc) go onto the nearest battery?

Some pictures would be helpful if you find the time ?

Also, when I charge of an evening, will it charge both batteries without moving the connectors of the charger?

 Thanks ?

 

[CMcB]

Could also be a charger issue, if that has been the same charger you've used over multiple batteries. I have had a cheap 70ah Halfords battery for 2 years, charge it with a CTek charger every 2nd night and I've got longer out of mine than you by the sounds of it. Numax has a good reputation for chargers so it could be that this one has developed an issue, especially if you have had it a few years. Ctek mxs 5.0 is on offer on amazon at the moment.

 

[dazmond]

Thank for your replies gentlemen.

Those using two batteries in tandem, how are you connecting them please, and presumably your connections (controller etc) go onto the nearest battery?

Some pictures would be helpful if you find the time ?

Also, when I charge of an evening, will it charge both batteries without moving the connectors of the charger?

 Thanks ?

Mine were fitted by grippatank.....yes you only need to crocodile clip one battery to charge them both up...

 

[Davy G]

Thank for your replies gentlemen.

Those using two batteries in tandem, how are you connecting them please, and presumably your connections (controller etc) go onto the nearest battery?

Some pictures would be helpful if you find the time ?

Also, when I charge of an evening, will it charge both batteries without moving the connectors of the charger?

 Thanks ?

You're very welcome.

In my case : For weight distribution I have one battery each side of the van, each In top quality, Noco battery boxes, on rubber matting on the floor, placed crossways behind the tank. I have a removable, lift off shelf bridged across the two boxes. This shelf holds a small bin containing our tap water connection fittings and a mini hose reel. A 25 meter hose reel and our buckets for gutter empties occupy the rest of the shelf.

The battery on the left is wired from the SCR (positive in from SCR to leisure battery ~ negative from battery to van chassis). The SCR, I think from memory, is fed from the van battery under the passenger seat, it's mounted on the bulkhead of the van (back, cargo side) so we can see it from the side door and I can just about hear it kick on from the driver's seat when I start the engine. The first battery is simply bridged across to the second battery in parallel ~positive to positive, negative to negative. Exactly the same as when using jump leads.

For mains charging, I have a flylead, positive and negative, coming from the second battery to a wooden, end panel just inside the back door on the shelf unit. Each of the two cables is terminated with a colour coded and insulated steel nut and bolt for correct charger connection. This will allow me to mains charge the batteries without needing to disturb them or even get in the van. Both batteries will charge at the same time as they are now connected, and they will share the load at all times when working for the same reason.

The flylead is fuse protected as are all the other positive wires in the SCR, leisure battery and work systems. I haven't yet used the mains charger, it's not been needed.

The left side door work station (controller and pump) is wired from the left battery. The back door work station is wired from the right hand side battery. They don't need to be wired from separate batteries as once the batteries are connected in tandem they act and operate as one. The work stations are wired from separate batteries purely because the cable runs are slightly shorter, as you said.

I hope this helps. It's a fair bit to take in when it's not something we do very often. I'd have a read take your time to try and get your head round it. For sure I'm no way an expert on the subject. If you go down this route, I'd personally get someone who is used to fitting SCRs to do, or oversee the project.

Main things to be aware of are : make sure the batteries are secure from sliding or moving, are safely covered from anything metal dropping across the terminals and causing a short (this type of short would not be fuse protected). That all positive cables are properly fuse protected and are protected from shorting.

The final and less important thing that I can think of is : can you make use of the battery boxes as shelf supports, while still allowing fairly easy access to the batteries? All storage space is valuable.

By all means run this post by someone with more knowledge and experience just incase I've made a mistake.

I took a few photos, I'll try and post them now, but I don't know whether they'll go through. ?

 

[ched999uk]

You're very welcome.

In my case : For weight distribution I have one battery each side of the van, each In top quality, Noco battery boxes, on rubber matting on the floor, placed crossways behind the tank. I have a removable, lift off shelf bridged across the two boxes. This shelf holds a small bin containing our tap water connection fittings and a mini hose reel. A 25 meter hose reel and our buckets for gutter empties occupy the rest of the shelf.

The battery on the left is wired from the SCR (positive in from SCR to leisure battery ~ negative from battery to van chassis). The SCR, I think from memory, is fed from the van battery under the passenger seat, it's mounted on the bulkhead of the van (back, cargo side) so we can see it from the side door and I can just about hear it kick on from the driver's seat when I start the engine. The first battery is simply bridged across to the second battery in parallel ~positive to positive, negative to negative. Exactly the same as when using jump leads.

For mains charging, I have a flylead, positive and negative, coming from the second battery to a wooden, end panel just inside the back door on the shelf unit. Each of the two cables is terminated with a colour coded and insulated steel nut and bolt for correct charger connection. This will allow me to mains charge the batteries without needing to disturb them or even get in the van. Both batteries will charge at the same time as they are now connected, and they will share the load at all times when working for the same reason.

The flylead is fuse protected as are all the other positive wires in the SCR, leisure battery and work systems. I haven't yet used the mains charger, it's not been needed.

The left side door work station (controller and pump) is wired from the left battery. The back door work station is wired from the right hand side battery. They don't need to be wired from separate batteries as once the batteries are connected in tandem they act and operate as one. The work stations are wired from separate batteries purely because the cable runs are slightly shorter, as you said.

I hope this helps. It's a fair bit to take in when it's not something we do very often. I'd have a read take your time to try and get your head round it. For sure I'm no way an expert on the subject. If you go down this route, I'd personally get someone who is used to fitting SCRs to do, or oversee the project.

Main things to be aware of are : make sure the batteries are secure from sliding or moving, are safely covered from anything metal dropping across the terminals and causing a short (this type of short would not be fuse protected). That all positive cables are properly fuse protected and are protected from shorting.

The final and less important thing that I can think of is : can you make use of the battery boxes as shelf supports, while still allowing fairly easy access to the batteries? All storage space is valuable.

By all means run this post by someone with more knowledge and experience just incase I've made a mistake.

I took a few photos, I'll try and post them now, but I don't know whether they'll go through. ?

Great Post.

 

[phillip]

Hi

I had a issue with a battery. Halfords replaced it twice, issue still there. They took it in to test it. Turns out it was the charger not the battery. I had the previous charger for 3 years and it works fine on the other 2 van batteries. I got a new fancy charger, cheaper than the old one. Battery has never missed a beat running fine with new charger. I prefer halfords as they are always open, great at exchanging faulty goods. Customer service second to none. I prefer buying from a shop I can go back to.

 

[steve garwood]

Just out of curiosity, do you lads disconnect the leads to your terminals (wires from controller, one shot etc) overnight?

 

[Davy G]

Just out of curiosity, do you lads disconnect the leads to your terminals (wires from controller, one shot etc) overnight?

I don't. In my case it's fit and forget. We switch off both controllers at the end of the day's work, nothing else. Even if we're off for a couple of weeks holiday.

 

[CMcB]

Just out of curiosity, do you lads disconnect the leads to your terminals (wires from controller, one shot etc) overnight?

I don't either

 

[Pjj]

I don't. In my case it's fit and forget. We switch off both controllers at the end of the day's work, nothing else. Even if we're off for a couple of weeks holiday.

Same hear , if Ime away for  a couple of weeks in the summer months I will turn off the battery isolation switch but not in winter months as that would stop the frost stat firing up if it’s needed 

 

[steve garwood]

The reason why I’m asking is, on Friday my water out the jets started drooping again at the end of the day. 
Went to check my battery power on the controller, 12.2 so once again I thinking my battery is mullered. I then gave the terminals a run with the sandpaper and rubbed a little Vaseline on them, re applied the crocodile clips, 12.4 and continued working for another hour without issue.

I’ve ordered some proper battery terminal clips, and will put them on, and wonder if that will make a difference? ?

 

[Davy G]

The reason why I’m asking is, on Friday my water out the jets started drooping again at the end of the day. 
Went to check my battery power on the controller, 12.2 so once again I thinking my battery is mullered. I then gave the terminals a run with the sandpaper and rubbed a little Vaseline on them, re applied the crocodile clips, 12.4 and continued working for another hour without issue.

I’ve ordered some proper battery terminal clips, and will put them on, and wonder if that will make a difference? ?

They'll be better than crocodile clips, I'm sure.

 

[steve garwood]

They'll be better than crocodile clips, I'm sure.

Been using crocodile clips for over ten years, but even giving them a wiggle on the terminals can take the voltage readings slightly higher. So yes, it’s about time I pulled my finger out and fitted proper connectors 

 

[ched999uk]

Been using crocodile clips for over ten years, but even giving them a wiggle on the terminals can take the voltage readings slightly higher. So yes, it’s about time I pulled my finger out and fitted proper connectors 

Poor connections effect both charging and using. So if you have poor connections then if you have a split charger it might not work as well as it could but you wouldn't notice that. 

 

[Davy G]

I like to have a robust system throughout. A first class SCR. Sturdy, well sleeved wiring. Sound connections. Over capacity on the batteries. First rate fuse protection.

Again, as I've said before "I'd rather be looking at the power than looking for it."

 

[steve garwood]

Poor connections effect both charging and using. So if you have poor connections then if you have a split charger it might not work as well as it could but you wouldn't notice that. 

The charger connectors are probably attached to the battery with ring connectors. No probs there ?

 

[spruce]

Just out of curiosity, do you lads disconnect the leads to your terminals (wires from controller, one shot etc) overnight?

No. We don't have any power drain with our old Varistream digital controls. The last controller Varistream manufactured had a crude battery charge indicator and that did consume current when off. We had to fit an isolator switch which son in law used to switch off when he completed his day's work. 

I have no experience with Spring controllers. Does the latest v16's power button completely switch the controller off or not? I guess @Ian SheppardSheppard is the man to ask.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

No. We don't have any power drain with our old Varistream digital controls. The last controller Varistream manufactured had a crude battery charge indicator and that did consume current when off. We had to fit an isolator switch which son in law used to switch off when he completed his day's work. 

I have no experience with Spring controllers. Does the latest v16's power button completely switch the controller off or not? I guess @Ian SheppardSheppard is the man to ask.

Switching the V16 and previous V11 off powers down the display and controller will no longer drive anything. While connected to the controller micro processor goes into a standby mode Current here is less than 100th of an amp so barely measurable. Should the controller be left switched on and in Dead end over night Current draw here is about 10th of a an amp so if left in DE for 10 days the would be 1amp.

Batteries also discharge naturally whether connected or not and can loose up to 5% of charge just sat in a shelf.

Cheers