benz vs farm hypo 12345567

[Pjj]

Everyone can make a mistake. Just giving examples of what could happen. Those are all examples I have seen on some of the US groups most of which would never happen to us or anybody with the right knowledge and application of that knowledge. A lot can be avoided by using the correct PPE etc but nothing is 100% perfect without a perfect operator 100% of the time.

Gloves get torn or develop small holes (not impossible to happen without the operator noticing), fittings get worn. Pressure may be built up from hoses / containers sitting in a warm van with residual chemical inside them.

I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs. Anyone (who may be very inexperienced) could stumble across this post and hopefully gleen a small amount of information or at least take away some things to think about.

All ppe should have a  pre  use cheak and then be sighned for after use to say that it’s ok then cheaked before it’s used again , but not many peopke would do it : we always do pre and after checks Ime not bigging myself up it’s the way that things are done in the fire service and I have implemented that In my own buisness we use 1000 s of ltrs of hypo each year and have done so for many years and haven’t had any accidents I put this down to the fact that we have and use the correct ppe and appropriate training and done the above . Yes I accept accidents can happen but if all precautions are taken it should be very rare : I very promminant person on hear put up a post a while ago about getting hypo in his or an employees eye ? Cannot remember which now and he was surprised as he was wearing ppe however when Handeling products like this goggles and a face shield should be used this is then dramatically reducing the possibility of getting it in your eyes , this isn’t criticising the individual but just using this as an example of how Evan a professional experienced person can get caught out 

if inexperienced people are reading this they need to know how to safely use what is a relatively safe product by doing some quite easy research it’s not hard to get the info you need to work safely 

I feel that some on hear don’t want to share that information and I understand why as some posts people  put on hear show quite clearly that they shouldn’t be using it as they haven’t got a clue what they are doing , helping someone like that isn’t helping them it’s ebabeling then to hurt themselves or others. 

We are all responsible for our safety that of employees, members of the public , customers etc ime quite happy to help anyone but they need to have a certain amount of knowledge before they start using some of theses products 

 

[tench0771]

ill find out my insurance tonight cant rember who it is lol i no that sounds bad :1f644: .    this has been intresting read i rember kevin 250 saying after cleaning a stachu plimp with benz and saying how good it is and he will not disscount this product in fucher sounds like there is something in this blackwash but is it worth the extra cost!! im not shore, i use clever wash 300mill added to 20 leters of hypo and found that works very well under 5% heavy red black algae standerd green lite 2% works fine  i would like to test 2% black wash ,mix on red and black algae 

 

[tench0771]

ps im with gleaming insurance

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Some examples of massively over complicating what is such a simple matter (when done properly)  

I too am with Gleaming @tench0771 and I am covered to use hypo and I have asked the question specifically.   Also bear in mind that because one persons policy covers them it does not automatically mean that others will even if from the same broker / insurer.  You need to email them (not phone them) and ask the question specifically.  Why email and not phone? Because then your answer is in black and white should there ever be cause for claim. 

Re: Clever wash - Mark Caves products are a hugely overpriced joke.  

Re: Benz - Massively overpriced for what it is once again but for anyone that has ever looked in to getting a hazardous chemical approved for a particular use the sheer cost involved is prohibitive not to mention the hoops you need to jump through.  The cost of Benz getting 'approval' was well in excess of £10K 

Green Wash (nothing to do with me) and Terra wash imported and sold by Purple Rhino are superb surfactants but not just surfactant also other additives that do 'enhance' the effectiveness of the hypo.  -- They also do a Wood wash and a stabiliser @Dave B  that are very good as you mentioned doing wood work.  

Now on to P.P.E. It does not matter what PPE you have or how much it cost ot how many check lists you have it can still go wrong.  

Last year on a job I was spraying a mix onto a roof from a ladder when the smallest drop of mix ricochet back of the edge of a tile hit the rung of the ladder and went up under my full face visor to hit my bottom eye lid.   Straight down of ladder and rinsed thoroughly with garden hose.  It came up like a welt and burned like hell.   After a couple of minutes rinsing I was convinced it was stable and carried on.  It continued to burn.  I decided if still burning next day off to hospital.  By the morning it had settled with no further burning or damage but believe me I had a very nervous night and wife.  It healed fully over the coming weeks. 

Now please remember also that I have been on many training courses over the years and have many certificates on my wall to prove that I have knowledge and competence in handling all types of chemicals and acids etc (Some insurers will require some proof of training) and I have also cleaned almost every type of surface you can imagine at some point.................. uet through all this I have still dropped the add on services 100% as I have realized that putting that time and effort in to the window round is far more profitable in the end. (Not to mention safer) 

 

[kevinc250]

ill find out my insurance tonight cant rember who it is lol i no that sounds bad :1f644: .    this has been intresting read i rember kevin 250 saying after cleaning a stachu plimp with benz and saying how good it is and he will not disscount this product in fucher sounds like there is something in this blackwash but is it worth the extra cost!! im not shore, i use clever wash 300mill added to 20 leters of hypo and found that works very well under 5% heavy red black algae standerd green lite 2% works fine  i would like to test 2% black wash ,mix on red and black algae 

i like the blackwash tench,and it has its purpose,i've a few jobs coming up that to cover my ass compliance wise its better to use blackwash,plus i have some backup and advice from ben or leo if it comes to it.

i think we have to remember we are window cleaners so we want everything for nothing and never want to pay for quality products and moan all the time about overpriced products forgetting the amount of profit that can be made from said products.

1. don't get me wrong,mrs smiths block paving will get a good splash of farmyard hypo but when it come to lets say a wall or roof i'll not skimp and use benz-thats just the way i am i like to use quality and it does reflect in the finished results-on a personal note,you rember the thread about mary?-i've found her older sister lurking in a garden,
   

 

[tench0771]

it was the mary fred that made me question benz as ive hurd others say its like pixxxss compaired to farm hypo ,ill try it on the next job for shore and your rite about not skimping on jobs as there is a lot of proffit in render and roof cleaning ect 

 

[sjl]

I buy 10% Evans dairy hypo from countrywide farmers. £12 for 25lt and Evans hypo compatible Qsol for surfactant, £5 for 5lts. £17 and I’m off earning. Superb results with very satisfied customers. Lots of companies now trying to flog their “specialist” products and using imaginative banter to try and persuade people to pay way over the odds for stuff they can easily make themselves.


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[kevinc250]

I buy 10% Evans dairy hypo from countrywide farmers. £12 for 25lt and Evans hypo compatible Qsol for surfactant, £5 for 5lts. £17 and I’m off earning. Superb results with very satisfied customers. Lots of companies now trying to flog their “specialist” products and using imaginative banter to try and persuade people to pay way over the odds for stuff they can easily make themselves.


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is that the one with the picture of a moo cow on it?-think i've used that twice before

 

[sjl]

is that the one with the picture of a moo cow on it?-think i've used that twice before

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[kevinc250]

just did a quick google of the surfactant you are buying so cheap,i guess you realise that one of the ingredients is a quartary ammonium

 

[tench0771]

kevin what does that mean, isent ammonium that a biocide?

 

[sjl]

just did a quick google of the surfactant you are buying so cheap,i guess you realise that one of the ingredients is a quartary ammonium

Q’sol is just a concentrated washing up liquid. Evans put their telephone number on the package. I called them and spoke to one of their chemical guys. I explained in detail what it was going to be used for and the kind of quantities and was told by him that it’s a hypochlorite safe product and fine to mix. Most soaps or surfactants contain similar ingredients.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/quaternary-ammonium-compounds
https://www.evansvanodine.co.uk//assets/eng_q-sol.pdf


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[Dave B]

You need to know what these chemicals are before taking someone elses word for it being safe etc

Personally i would use Lauryl Dimethylamine Oxide from bonnymans for £4.50 for 1l

 

[kevinc250]

Q’sol is just a concentrated washing up liquid. Evans put their telephone number on the package. I called them and spoke to one of their chemical guys. I explained in detail what it was going to be used for and the kind of quantities and was told by him that it’s a hypochlorite safe product and fine to mix. Most soaps or surfactants contain similar ingredients.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/quaternary-ammonium-compounds
https://www.evansvanodine.co.uk//assets/eng_q-sol.pdf


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its not concentrated mate if your buying it at £1 per litre unless your getting it out of the back door,i have accounts with most of the bigger chemical companies and for other reasons buy surfactants and other products, £5-6 per litre is ok for basic stuff until your need technicnal grade where its a lot more per litre based on quantity,other specalist stuff is way way above that

 

[kevinc250]

kevin what does that mean, isent ammonium that a biocide?

:1f44d:

 

[Dave B]

its not concentrated mate if your buying it at £1 per litre unless your getting it out of the back door,i have accounts with most of the bigger chemical companies and for other reasons buy surfactants and other products, £5-6 per litre is ok for basic stuff until your need technicnal grade where its a lot more per litre based on quantity,other specalist stuff is way way above that

Kevin doesn't mixing quats and hypo cause the production of chlorine gas?

I know it does but still asking the question

Ddac and other quats mixed with hypo is a no but this company is selling a product containing a quat for use as a surfactant for hypo

Crazy

 

[kevinc250]

Q’sol is just a concentrated washing up liquid. Evans put their telephone number on the package. I called them and spoke to one of their chemical guys. I explained in detail what it was going to be used for and the kind of quantities and was told by him that it’s a hypochlorite safe product and fine to mix. Most soaps or surfactants contain similar ingredients.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/quaternary-ammonium-compounds
https://www.evansvanodine.co.uk//assets/eng_q-sol.pdf


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he will do mate,it probably contains sodium laureth sulthate which is safe with hypo and will work well,its just the biocide they include to keep it from going off which would/will/can/ give you or others health issues,this is why washing up liquid is never to be used with hypo or any other bleach.

the guy above will tell you anything as its YOUR responsability to use the product safely not theres,the buck stops when they sell you it,you have the responsability to research and detertime whether its right for you or not

 

[sjl]

Kevin doesn't mixing quats and hypo cause the production of chlorine gas?
I know it does but still asking the question
Ddac and other quats mixed with hypo is a no but this company is selling a product containing a quat for use as a surfactant for hypo
Crazy

The “crazy” company you refer to would be Evans Vanodine. Founded by a chemist in 1919, and now a hugely experienced company specialising in cleaning chemicals for a wide range of services around the globe.
I certainly wouldn’t put myself at risk or others by being negligent.




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[kevinc250]

Kevin doesn't mixing quats and hypo cause the production of chlorine gas?

I know it does but still asking the question

Ddac and other quats mixed with hypo is a no but this company is selling a product containing a quat for use as a surfactant for hypo

Crazy

as i've said above dave, the buck with the chemical suppliers stops when they sell you the product,you get the sds sheets its your responsability to see that it meets your needs and meets all the legal obligations for your use or trade-they are merely the middle men.its far far better to buy the raw surfactant and work from there.

i know aswell as yourself hypo and quats is a no no whatever % it is,

however people will go down this route as its cheaper and this is what it brings a potential health issue either there and then or in the future to yourself or others-imagine the lawsuit because you've saved a few quid on supplies.

 

[kevinc250]

The “crazy” company you refer to would be Evans Vanodine. Founded by a chemist in 1919, and now a hugely experienced company specialising in cleaning chemicals for a wide range of services around the globe.
I certainly wouldn’t put myself at risk or others by being negligent.
View attachment 12707
View attachment 12708


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i'll come off my high horse on this one as it does suggest its suitable-i'm sorry for that,its just so many window cleaners go for the cheapest solution and invariably get it so so wrong

 

[kevinc250]

i'll come off my high horse on this one as it does suggest its suitable-i'm sorry for that,its just so many window cleaners go for the cheapest solution and invariably get it so so wrong

that being said,as its a public forum it has been a good exercise in what not to use