Confused by pump controller

[Clearview Lee]

I found the picture of your setup I was looking for. Took a while though.
I don't like those battery clamps and would also look at the positive joiner on the cable from the battery. I would assume that you have a similar joiner on the negative cable.

View attachment 7625

What's that adapted hose clip there?? Not seen those b4....stops the hose getting bent up! I like that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beccy]

Spruce, those joins have been replaced since that picture was taken, but it does still have croc clips connecting to the battery. What would you use instead?

I'm sure that battery is charging properly as my multimeter is fairly new and tells me the battery is still fully charged when the problems start. But it is always after a big job that it starts playing up (could that be because something is overheating rather than because the battery is flat?)

Also, not sure if it's related but I noticed this week that the pump is sounding a bit unusual /emoticons/unsure.png

 

[spruce]

Spruce, those joins have been replaced since that picture was taken, but it does still have croc clips connecting to the battery. What would you use instead?
I'm sure that battery is charging properly as my multimeter is fairly new and tells me the battery is still fully charged when the problems start. But it is always after a big job that it starts playing up (could that be because something is overheating rather than because the battery is flat?)

Also, not sure if it's related but I noticed this week that the pump is sounding a bit unusual /emoticons/unsure.png

We had those type of clamps before and they gave us no end of trouble. They are great for quick removal but then are a bit hit and miss when making a good contact.

Our problems with batteries were less when we replaced those clamps with proper battery terminals. The are available from any motor factors/parts stockist.

Something like these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Heavy-Duty-Car-Van-Battery-Terminal-Clamps-For-Classic-Modern-Cable-Fitting-/271893699656?hash=item3f4e209c48

As we said on another post, it could be that the battery you have will show a full charge of 12.8v but it has lost is storage capacity. We had this with a leisure battery we had. It would be fully charged within 1/2 an hour after being flat and won't drive the pumps.

At one time we could take our battery into a distributor who would make sure it was fully charged and then put a load test on it. If the battery didn't perform then the battery needed replacing. They would unscrew the filler caps and you could see a faulty cell bubbling away when the battery was under load.

Nowadays most haven't the knowledge to do that as they just replace the battery.

Pumps can start to sound different when they are being feed a low voltage. As the battery goes flat under load, the voltage drops and controller switches off at around 10.4 volts. Pumps don't work well under load with that voltage and labour. This could be the different sound you notice.

Your controller reduces the pump speed differently. It is a PWM controller (Pulse Width Modulator). If you want your pump to run at full speed, then the controller supplies a continuous current. If you want the motor to run more slowly then the controller pulses the current to the motor. Each pulse is at full voltage. The slower the motor speed the longer the off section between the on pulse.

 

[Beccy]

Thanks spruce. I might switch to that type of connector as long as I can find a way of reaching the charger to the battery in situ as I currently remove the battery every evening and charge out on the worktop.

I might just grab a new battery too because even if that turns out not to be the problem, I'll be able to use the spare in a new project I have coming up /emoticons/smile.png

 

[spruce]

Thanks spruce. I might switch to that type of connector as long as I can find a way of reaching the charger to the battery in situ as I currently remove the battery every evening and charge out on the worktop.
I might just grab a new battery too because even if that turns out not to be the problem, I'll be able to use the spare in a new project I have coming up /emoticons/smile.png

There is nothing wrong with loosening the clamp with a spanner and continue doing what you are doing. This battery clamp makes a better connection on the battery post.

TBH I would put the battery charger on an extension lead and put it near your trailer so you don't have to lift that out every night and back in the next morning. I haven't taken the battery out of the van to charge it for the last 6 years. I just run an extension out to the van and plug the battery charger in overnight.

 

[Clearview Lee]

Exactly what I do!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Clearview Lee]

I've nearly given up window cleaning thru my batt/pump problems over the past 3 years and not being able to work properly. This forum saved my self-employment career!! Just keep posting up, and eventually you'll get to the root of the problem. [emoji106]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[doug atkinson]

Couple of things I have diagnosed in the past when a customer increases the flow of the pump it goes to "de". One was the amp rating on the crocodile clips were 5 amp so when you increased the controller it's trying to pull past 5 amps and it cannot. Another was supposedly 12 amp wire from Maplins this was hindering the current draw. Changed the wiring and and all okay. Or it could be the battery and the only way to try this out is if you have another battery.

Failing this if you ever pass by Glenrothes I'd be happy to have a look at it.

 

[spruce]

Couple of things I have diagnosed in the past when a customer increases the flow of the pump it goes to "de". One was the amp rating on the crocodile clips were 5 amp so when you increased the controller it's trying to pull past 5 amps and it cannot. Another was supposedly 12 amp wire from Maplins this was hindering the current draw. Changed the wiring and and all okay. Or it could be the battery and the only way to try this out is if you have another battery.
Failing this if you ever pass by Glenrothes I'd be happy to have a look at it.

Hi Doug

The problem appears after the system works well for a while. Its my guess that the battery is the culprit as you suggested in an earlier post. Its lacking capacity. If the wiring was under size then the problem would manifest itself straight way each morning. I don't think those clamps are helping so it would be good to get shot of them anyway.

If their is no one around who can test a battery (Halfords is an hour away and not worth the traveling time or cost) then I would take the controller out of the loop after work when the battery is discharged and see what happens. If the battery is at fault then the pump will start to slow. If the pump works fine then the problem is somewhere from the battery to the controller or the controller itself. I would also bite the bullet and replace the battery with the leisure one that I found that would fit her space. I can't see the controller being the problem; again it works well to begin with each morning.

We have the leisure battery on the van wired into a split charge relay. When the leisure battery died whilst out working we ran the van engine and that provided sufficient power to drive both pumps and finish the job. Beccy doesn't have that luxury.

 

[Beccy]

Battery clamps have arrived so will get them fitted before my next days work /emoticons/smile.png

I would also bite the bullet and replace the battery with the leisure one that I found that would fit her space.

Spruce, I thought no one could find a leisure battery to fit.... Have I missed a post somewhere? /emoticons/smile.png

 

[spruce]

Battery clamps have arrived so will get them fitted before my next days work /emoticons/smile.png


Spruce, I thought no one could find a leisure battery to fit.... Have I missed a post somewhere? /emoticons/smile.png

On the other thread I added this

I see Enduroline do a 50 amph battery which will fit into your space.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/50Ah-Leisure-Batteries-G440.html

 

[doug atkinson]

Beccy you must know someone who has a motorised golf trolley, their battery will fit in there so you could try it out.

 

[Beccy]

Awesome thanks spruce, I don't know how I missed that! Looks like that's my next battery then.

Doug, would the golf buggy battery be similar to the one in my trolley that I linked to earlier? Ultramax np12v 9ah?

 

[spruce]

Can I also suggest that you look carefully at replacing your battery charger if this is the way you are going to go.

A leisure battery shouldn't be charged at more than 10% of their rating. So if you have an 8 amph battery charger, then this may be too high a charge rate for a 50amp rated leisure battery. I would suggest you ask Tanya for a suitable one.

 

[spruce]

Awesome thanks spruce, I don't know how I missed that! Looks like that's my next battery then.
Doug, would the golf buggy battery be similar to the one in my trolley that I linked to earlier? Ultramax np12v 9ah?

Beccy, I'm pretty sure Doug was thinking along the lines of this sort of battery.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Caddymatic-V1-Electric-Golf-Trolley-Golf-Trolley-Batteries-D12918.html

The one you linked to is too small - 9amp hour.

 

[Beccy]

Can I also suggest that you look carefully at replacing your battery charger if this is the way you are going to go.
A leisure battery shouldn't be charged at more than 10% of their rating. So if you have an 8 amph battery charger, then this may be too high a charge rate for a 50amp rated leisure battery. I would suggest you ask Tanya for a suitable one.

Thanks, I will. I'm glad you mentioned this as it wouldn't have crossed my mind!

 

[Beccy]

Beccy, I'm pretty sure Doug was thinking along the lines of this sort of battery.
https://www.tayna.co.uk/Caddymatic-V1-Electric-Golf-Trolley-Golf-Trolley-Batteries-D12918.html

The one you linked to is too small - 9amp hour.

Ah, that makes sense, it was just I remembered when I bought that little battery one of the suggested uses was golf trolleys and mobility scooters. I didn't realise some golf trolleys have such big batteries /emoticons/smile.png

 

[doug atkinson]

Golf batteries are pretty small so will fit there, get a 26 amp or bigger.

 

[doug atkinson]

Totally off subject one for Spruce, got sent a link for this have not laughed so much for ages if you can understand the accent.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPtZW1Ii6s[/media]

 

[spruce]

Doug, it never ceases to amaze me how they still catch these South African Okes with prank calls after all these years. John Burkes started these phone calls on 702 Radio over 30 years ago.

We would religiously be tuned into 702 radio after 7 in the morning on the way to work to listen into his latest prank phone call.

Wack Head Simpson started on Radio Highveld after we left Jo'burg. (The nephews think he is the best thing since sliced bread.) There was also the RAW Traffic Joke that was told each morning on that same radio station, again after the news, to compete with 702 radio's prank call. Some were good, but some were very poor.

Going back further was the Wrex Tarr era in Rhodesia. I can remember being at one of his comedy shows at a pub and we couldn't order a Castle Lager refill as the waiters were more engrossed in the show than the audience.

There was talk of Wrex re-releasing all his albums, but it never happened. Maybe he wanted to keep a low profile with the changing times. Anyway, he's now passed away, so I guess we will never know the real reason why that didn't happen.This was his best one IMO, although they all appear to be on YouTube now.

[media]

[/media]

 

[Beccy]

I've just had a very frustrating morning.... The problem is getting worse even with my shiny new battery clamps and all the connections redone so I've just ordered that battery and the 5amp charger they recommended to go with it. Fingers crossed it all arrived quickly and solves all my problems!