DC - DC converters

[Mrspanner]

Hi all, I’m just about to change vans and the new van has a smart alternator so it would seem I’ll have go from split charge relay to a Battery to Battery charger, I just wondered if anyone has had any experience with the Victron energy Orion dc to dc converters?
I have a lead leisure battery for the pump etc, it says on their website it’s suitable for that.. if so, Are they any good? and what charge setting did you have on the phone app?
Thanks

 

[Iron Giant]

@spruce could be the man to provide the answer or @Pjj as he has newer vans

 

[Part Timer]

I have a Sterling charger on 2 vans, 2019 & 2021, that works very well. @spruce will tell you the type ?

 

[spruce]

Hi all, I’m just about to change vans and the new van has a smart alternator so it would seem I’ll have go from split charge relay to a Battery to Battery charger, I just wondered if anyone has had any experience with the Victron energy Orion dc to dc converters?
I have a lead leisure battery for the pump etc, it says on their website it’s suitable for that.. if so, Are they any good? and what charge setting did you have on the phone app?
Thanks

I don't have any experience with a Victron DC to DC charger, but they do have a name for quality products and well known in the marine and leisure craft industries. I have a Victron battery monitor. If I was buying a b2b battery charger now, I would definitely consider the Victron over my Sterling unit.

The beauty about Victron is that you can communicate with the controller and set it up via the bluetooth app. I need to manually set up the parameters on my Sterling unit which does become a bit complex.

If your van has regenerative braking, then I would contact Victron and ask them how you have to set the charger up for that. Normally, these chargers are activated when the alternator output is higher than 13 plus volts (activation is 13.6v on my Sterling b2b charger). With vehicles with regenerative braking, the alternator could well not be charging much above 12.0 volts if the starter battery is above 80% capacity. With the Sterling unit, they have provision to activate the b2b charger on the ignition key. I would imagine Victron have a similar feature, but I would confirm that if this applies to you.

What I like about my Sterling BB1260 as that the heat sinks are fan cooled once they reach a certain temperature. The Victron unit has cooling fins on the bottom of the unit and rely on air circulation for this function. I think I have only heard the fans come on a couple of times in 3 years, so It's not really an issue.
A motor homeowner did comment that the Victron cooling fins get quite warm. I would mount it where there was plenty of air circulation.

This video clip my help you.

 

[Pjj]

@spruce could be the man to provide the answer or @Pjj as he has newer vans

We dont have any bit b chargers on our vans as the manufacturers said it would invalidate the vehicles warranty Just have the mains chargers fitted , we can usually work for 2-3 days without charging if we are away from home and cannot mains charge but that’s very unusual as we can use water and electric on most sites .

 

[spruce]

We dont have any bit b chargers on our vans as the manufacturers said it would invalidate the vehicles warranty Just have the mains chargers fitted , we can usually work for 2-3 days without charging if we are away from home and cannot mains charge but that’s very unusual as we can use water and electric on most sites .

Then they don't envisage supplying base vans or chassis cabs into the leisure market then. This is the market where Fiat (including Citroën & Peugeot and to a lesser extent Ford) have extensive sales.

The thing is that it doesn't modify anything on the vehicle that would affect warranty. A b2b battery charger doesn't trick the alternator into increasing output voltage when the van's ecu has signalled the output to be 12.0v. A b2b just boosts that 12.0v non charging mode up to 13.6v in its electronics. The alternator is still in charging mode at 12.0v, its just not sufficient to charge a starter battery, so is 'idling'.

 

[ched999uk]

Then they don't envisage supplying base vans or chassis cabs into the leisure market then. This is the market where Fiat (including Citroën & Peugeot and to a lesser extent Ford) have extensive sales.

The thing is that it doesn't modify anything on the vehicle that would affect warranty. A b2b battery charger doesn't trick the alternator into increasing output voltage when the van's ecu has signalled the output to be 12.0v. A b2b just boosts that 12.0v non charging mode up to 13.6v in its electronics. The alternator is still in charging mode at 12.0v, its just not sufficient to charge a starter battery, so is 'idling'.

I think it's just a dealer cop out when they haven't a clue how things work. Modern vehicle electronics are much more complex now and I'm not convince the dealers have that much extra knowledge on how the systems work these days. They just plug in 'the computer' and do as they are told. So if they find something different like extra wires they haven't got a clue what they are or if they have been installed correctly.
As long as a B2B is attached to the load side of the shunt resistor the vans ecu should just see it as additional load and takes it into account when switching the alternator to its different modes.

 

[spruce]

I have a Sterling charger on 2 vans, 2019 & 2021, that works very well. @spruce will tell you the type ?

I think yours would be a BB1230 as you don't need anything more than 30 amps.

 

[Pjj]

I think it's just a dealer cop out when they haven't a clue how things work. Modern vehicle electronics are much more complex now and I'm not convince the dealers have that much extra knowledge on how the systems work these days. They just plug in 'the computer' and do as they are told. So if they find something different like extra wires they haven't got a clue what they are or if they have been installed correctly.
As long as a B2B is attached to the load side of the shunt resistor the vans ecu should just see it as additional load and takes it into account when switching the alternator to its different modes.

Could be right , Renault when I bought my master emailed me stating if anything was added to the vehicle electrical system it would invalidate the 4 year warranty , Toyota also said that it would infringe the warranty with Toyota but as I was a good customer if there was a problem they would try and sort it out for me but couldn’t guarantee that as some components if they were replaced go back to the manufacturer and they can tell if things have been altered to the original factory speck , they said that the manufacturer knows how much and how often the alternator would need to run to charge the van battery if I was then charging up other batteries it would show up on downloadable history that it was charging far more than it should be , I didnt fully understand it all but got the basic idea of what he was saying , due to all this didn’t Evan bother asking when I bought the MAN TGE as assumed they would say the same . As for @spruce point about a lot of these vehicles being used for motor homes etc they use different alternators and battery set ups on them to a panel van .

 

[Part Timer]

Could be right , Renault when I bought my master emailed me stating if anything was added to the vehicle electrical system it would invalidate the 4 year warranty , Toyota also said that it would infringe the warranty with Toyota but as I was a good customer if there was a problem they would try and sort it out for me but couldn’t guarantee that as some components if they were replaced go back to the manufacturer and they can tell if things have been altered to the original factory speck , they said that the manufacturer knows how much and how often the alternator would need to run to charge the van battery if I was then charging up other batteries it would show up on downloadable history that it was charging far more than it should be , I didnt fully understand it all but got the basic idea of what he was saying , due to all this didn’t Evan bother asking when I bought the MAN TGE as assumed they would say the same . As for @spruce point about a lot of these vehicles being used for motor homes etc they use different alternators and battery set ups on them to a panel van .

Very strange, never received any warnings when I bought a new Fiat and Renault

 

[Pjj]

Very strange, never received any warnings when I bought a new Fiat and Renault

I asked them what would be the situation with the warranty if I added the system and chargers etc as I didn’t want any warranty issues knowing what Renault are like for electrical problems I was afraid that a vehicle problem might arise they would blame me and say it was caused by adding extra stuff to the vehicle electrics , after asking this and explaining what the vehicle was going to be used for was when they sent me the email , maybe if I hadn’t said anything it wouldn’t have been a problem but didn’t want to void a 4 year warranty .

 

[Mrspanner]

Many Thanks all

 

[A.K WINDOWS]

ive the same issue now im back to charging the battery in the house again for now

 

[spruce]

ive the same issue now im back to charging the battery in the house again for now

Isn't is strange that the more advanced technology is coming, the issues surrounding these advances just become more complex.

Yesterday, when I parked the van up, I had used 95% of my battery's capacity. I decided to plug my Numax battery charger directly onto my leisure battery. (Normally I tap my charger into the cable running from the starter battery to the b2b charger. This means my leisure battery gets charged via the b2b charger and van starter battery also gets a boost.)

With the charger plugged into my leisure battery, I see on my Victron app that the battery was being charged at 4.2 amps. When I swapped my charger over to the other plug where I charge my leisure battery through my b2b charger, my b2b charger boosted that charge amperage to my leisure battery to 7.5 amps.

So a b2b charger does help, but its effectiveness is restricted by our short journey times.

Then we have the other lead acid battery characteristic; the fuller the battery gets, the lower the rate of charge it will accept. 2 hours later, my Victron monitor indicated the battery was 100% fully charged, but the b2b charger was still pushing 2 amps into it.

 

[A.K WINDOWS]

Ive no idea too much tech used these days , I rang renault about this smart thing and they had no idea if it was on my van or not lol , i got a part number and i cant see anywhere where it says its a smart altenator ?

 

[Pjj]

Ive no idea too much tech used these days , I rang renault about this smart thing and they had no idea if it was on my van or not lol , i got a part number and i cant see anywhere where it says its a smart altenator ?

As far as ime aware any Renault after 2014 has them

 

[spruce]

Ive no idea too much tech used these days , I rang renault about this smart thing and they had no idea if it was on my van or not lol , i got a part number and i cant see anywhere where it says its a smart altenator ?

I'm afraid most dealership workshops are a waste of time.

Get yourself one of those battery voltage gauges that plug into the cigarette lighter. They aren't expensive.
While you are driving around watch what the voltage is. If it's constantly showing between 13.9 and 14.2v, then your alternator isn't that "smart". You could get away with a basic split charge relay or a DC to DC charger.

If you have a voltage that fluctuates between 12v and 14.2v then you have an alternator that's a little smart and you would need a DC to DC charger.

If the voltage jumps up to 16 plus volts when you take your foot off the accelerator down a hill, you have regenerative braking. Again you need to DC to DC charger.

 

[A.K WINDOWS]

thanks fellas