electric blocking gadget

[spruce]

Apparently on BBC2 this morning someone was promoting a gadget that is designed for window cleaning poles to prevent electric shock.
A friend of ours told me. Anybody hear about it? They mentioned how that window cleaner who got zapped with 33,000 volts would have been protected if this was available then.

My sceptical self did kick in a gear when our friend related this to me.

 

[Pjj]

No sounds very interesting but can’t see how it would work without increasing the weight of the pole considerably

 

[spruce]

I've just found the section on BBC2 IPlayer. Sunday Breakfast after the news.

It's amazing how people not associated with our industry listen to something which turns out to be totally different.

The family are now campaigning to make poles safer. There is no gadget or rubber brush mounting to stop electric shock.

Breakfast - 20/10/2024

The latest news, sport, business and weather from the BBC's Breakfast team.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's on breakfast between 54.30 and 59.07

From the clip, it looks like he was using a Gardiner pole. I'm not sure what he is now compaigning for. It sound like they want another pole section insulated. See 57.26.
What he is looking at is a CLX pole design where all sections have an outer fibreglass covering from what I can gather.

 

[ched999uk]

Squeeky Clean Dave did an interview with the poor bloke recently. He seemed to suggest that he had his right hand on the insulated lower section and as he went to lower the pole he grabbed the next section up and that's how the electricity flowed down the pole through his left hand, through his chest and out through both his feet. He has done amazingly well to recover to where he has in such a short space of time. I wish him all the best on his recovery.

He went to say he is campaigning to get all pole sections insulated.

I recently bought a new slx and I'm sure they have changed the message on the bottom section. I thought they used to specify a max voltage. Now it says something like do not use near electric cables or in thunder storms.

If all pole sections where insulated it might make things a little safer but some might think that they are then safe touching electrical cables plus I don't think even Gardiners bottom sections where ever rated to 33kV?

 

[spruce]

Squeeky Clean Dave did an interview with the poor bloke recently. He seemed to suggest that he had his right hand on the insulated lower section and as he went to lower the pole he grabbed the next section up and that's how the electricity flowed down the pole through his left hand, through his chest and out through both his feet. He has done amazingly well to recover to where he has in such a short space of time. I wish him all the best on his recovery.

He went to say he is campaigning to get all pole sections insulated.

I recently bought a new slx and I'm sure they have changed the message on the bottom section. I thought they used to specify a max voltage. Now it says something like do not use near electric cables or in thunder storms.

If all pole sections where insulated it might make things a little safer but some might think that they are then safe touching electrical cables plus I don't think even Gardiners bottom sections where ever rated to 33kV?

The CLX hybrid pole has carbon fibre inside with glass fibre outer covering on each section. The problem is that the pole is not as rigid as the SLX.

As you say, 33,000 volts takes some insulating against. I got some insulated gloves once that would protect against 25,000 volts, but it was impossible to hold my pole using them.

I again ask myself; did he have a risk assessment on the job before he started to clean the property? Those cables are very low, so in my opinion, the risk of cleaning that house was too great.

 

[ched999uk]

I again ask myself; did he have a risk assessment on the job before he started to clean the property? Those cables are very low, so in my opinion, the risk of cleaning that house was too great.

He doesn't mention one and it was a regular customer, so I guess not.

Part of the problem with Risk Assessments is the person doing them needs to know a bit about the potential risks.
If he didn't know that some properties are fed from overhead uninsulated cables then he wouldn't know the risk is there at all! Risk assessments are only as good as the person doing them. I wonder if there is a basic training course that might help?

I know I don't look at new properties as much as I should. Quoted one the other day and didn't even realise some of the new windows are wooden and some upvc! Weirdly the new wooden sash and French doors at the rear! Had I realised I would have told the customer that I might not be able to get the frames as clean as if they where white upvc. Builders dirt and brick dust has stained the paint - might just be a basic manufacturers paint as non finished protective coat? I also didn't notice that they where not sealed!!!!

I must do better, I must do better

 

[Part Timer]

I again ask myself; did he have a risk assessment on the job before he started to clean the property? Those cables are very low, so in my opinion, the risk of cleaning that house was too great.

In this day and age I'd want to know, firstly why do we still have electricity cables anywhere except underground, secondly why are buildings built in the vicinity of these cables.

 

[spruce]

In this day and age I'd want to know, firstly why do we still have electricity cables anywhere except underground, secondly why are buildings built in the vicinity of these cables.

This looks like a farm and would explain the high voltage supply cables.

I expect that running cables above ground would be cheaper and make for easier maintenance than cables running underground, especially at those voltages.
Our housing estate was built in the 1960's and the electricity supply is underground. But we clean on a number of estates that are older and power cables run above ground.

The village of Upleatham, between Saltburn and Guisborough, has an old section and a new section. There are a high voltage overhead power lines that supply the village. They come in over the hill from the Redcar side. There is a transformer that reduces the voltage to supply 230v via overhead power lines to the old houses. The new houses are supplied with power cables that run underground.
On the old section, there was an issue with supply, so the electricity board replaced those single overhead cables with ABC (Aerial Bundled Conductors) cabling, still above ground.

The high voltage may have jumped to ground via his pole, but I expect he was too close to the cables to begin with. The wind probably blew his pole toward the cables. I'm still asking where his risk assessment was. There are some jobs that we see as safe to do under ideal conditions. But those same jobs become unsafe when conditions change. Most of these could be weather related.
However, if they were cutting down a large tree next door, would we clean the house? No.
If the neighbours had a large crane lifting a heavy object into their garden over their house, would we risk cleaning the next door property? No, as our risk assessment would change and tell us that it would be dangerous to proceed.

I'm sorry that this has happened to Jason and glad he survived, but how much of the accident or incident is down to his negligence?

Wiltshire window cleaner loses forearm in 33,000-volt shock - BBC News

Jason Knight was "catapulted" seven feet by the shock and had 17 operations to save his life.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Part Timer]

This looks like a farm and would explain the high voltage supply cables.

I expect that running cables above ground would be cheaper and make for easier maintenance than cables running underground, especially at those voltages.
Our housing estate was built in the 1960's and the electricity supply is underground. But we clean on a number of estates that are older and power cables run above ground.

The village of Upleatham, between Saltburn and Guisborough, has an old section and a new section. There are a high voltage overhead power lines that supply the village. They come in over the hill from the Redcar side. There is a transformer that reduces the voltage to supply 230v via overhead power lines to the old houses. The new houses are supplied with power cables that run underground.
On the old section, there was an issue with supply, so the electricity board replaced those single overhead cables with ABC (Aerial Bundled Conductors) cabling, still above ground.

The high voltage may have jumped to ground via his pole, but I expect he was too close to the cables to begin with. The wind probably blew his pole toward the cables. I'm still asking where his risk assessment was. There are some jobs that we see as safe to do under ideal conditions. But those same jobs become unsafe when conditions change. Most of these could be weather related.
However, if they were cutting down a large tree next door, would we clean the house? No.
If the neighbours had a large crane lifting a heavy object into their garden over their house, would we risk cleaning the next door property? No, as our risk assessment would change and tell us that it would be dangerous to proceed.

I'm sorry that this has happened to Jason and glad he survived, but how much of the accident or incident is down to his negligence?

In any risk assessment cost can be used as a reason to use a more dangerous method. For example using ladders to unblock a downpipe rather than hiring a MEWP, the time up the ladder is minimal so if an accident did happen it is very unlikely you would be prosecuted.
Therefore, in my eyes, these cables are permanent so cost can't be used as an excuse so therefore everytime someone is injured by these cables the power supply companies should be fined and when people die the Directors should be jailed. They'd sharp find the money then.

 

[Pjj]

Squeeky Clean Dave did an interview with the poor bloke recently. He seemed to suggest that he had his right hand on the insulated lower section and as he went to lower the pole he grabbed the next section up and that's how the electricity flowed down the pole through his left hand, through his chest and out through both his feet. He has done amazingly well to recover to where he has in such a short space of time. I wish him all the best on his recovery.

He went to say he is campaigning to get all pole sections insulated.

I recently bought a new slx and I'm sure they have changed the message on the bottom section. I thought they used to specify a max voltage. Now it says something like do not use near electric cables or in thunder storms.

If all pole sections where insulated it might make things a little safer but some might think that they are then safe touching electrical cables plus I don't think even Gardiners bottom sections where ever rated to 33kV?

Even if every section was insulated you could still get a shock if water has run down the sections and the pole is wet or very damp

 

[THL4KEL]

Its about time the gutter equipment companies supplied us with a base section off insulated carbon fibre pole.

But I think the way things are heading if you look at all the window cleaning pole suppliers they are virtually all saying don't use their pole near electric powerless since this incident happened.

BTW When I say THEY, I get the feeling they're a lot of them are the same company except Gardiners (Window Cleaning Warehouse, Pure Freedom, Streamline). Gardiners still mention the insulated base on their poles.

I said this before but when we're working near power lines lower the pole to ground before you collapse it. If the electricity has arced into the pole if its on the ground would the distance break the arc..

In the video the lad said he done the job many times before. It had arced into his pole so when put his left hand on the uninsulated section to collapse it thats how he thinks he got the shock.

 

[Scrubsy]

My in-laws said they saw something about this gadget on the news this morning. I agree with @Part Timer about why are there still electrical cables above ground at houses. I have a mix where I am, some houses have external cabling and some it's underground. I can't quite work out why either when you see which roads do and which don't. Doesn't seem much rhyme or reason to it. I noticed the clamped poles I bought from Spinaclean recently have electrical labelling on the packaging now. The poor lad in squeaky clean dave's video said it was a bit windy and he thinks the electric arced across to the water and straight down the pole and he had his hand on the section above the base section. @ched999uk is spot on, he's done remarkably well to recover as much as he has in the time.

 

[WindyinNorfolk]

On any property that has uninsulated power cables the electric company will come and insulate it - free!

we have had this a few times for roof cleaning works

 

[ched999uk]

On any property that has uninsulated power cables the electric company will come and insulate it - free!

we have had this a few times for roof cleaning works

Is that permeant insulation or just while you do the roof clean and they come back at a later date and remove the insulation?

 

[Scrubsy]

For example using ladders to unblock a downpipe rather than hiring a MEWP, the time up the ladder is minimal so if an accident did happen it is very unlikely you would be prosecuted.

I think my insurance has something (or did at one point) about "working from" or "working off" or a ladder and the differences. I'd have to check it but I think if you had a leaky gutter and went up to to fix/replace/unblock a part like a union then came down you'd be ok, but its going up and down them frequently for work that could be done safer from the ground that they don't like. Some of the lads on the fb groups have ladder insurance but I'd imagine it's quite expensive.

 

[Part Timer]

Its about time the gutter equipment companies supplied us with a base section off insulated carbon fibre pole.

But is it not about time the people that supply the service, and shouldn't they be forced do it in a safe manner.
The cost for the smaller companies, that have to compete with others is prohibitive, whereas the supply companies have a monopoly, and therefore a massive profit margin, shouldn't they be doing more

 

[Part Timer]

Is that permeant insulation or just while you do the roof clean and they come back at a later date and remove the insulation?

No it's called masking, they have, I believe, 3 months to do it and will remove it once done. It's a legal requirement for them to do so.

 

[Iron Giant]

No it's called masking, they have, I believe, 3 months to do it and will remove it once done. It's a legal requirement for them to do so.

It's actually called shrouding. You used to be able to request it for up to 12 months. What I don't get is why, if it's such a danger and the trouble they go to wrap the power lines in plastic, they don't just leave it in place on certain properties.

 

[spruce]

From a post on the other forum who worked for Eastern Electricity.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/power-lines.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj2qMX8kJ6JAxVgTEEAHSh3NYIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hCczRzRGEBI5c_8ExylZ2

This link is from the HSE. Explains quite a lot, everyone should have a read and show employees.

Regarding the accident at 33,000v(33kV) it recommends a safe distance of 3m. Having an insulated base pole would not have saved him.

 

[Part Timer]

It's actually called shrouding. You used to be able to request it for up to 12 months. What I don't get is why, if it's such a danger and the trouble they go to wrap the power lines in plastic, they don't just leave it in place on certain properties.

Alcohol might have affected my memory

 

[PC]

From a post on the other forum who worked for Eastern Electricity.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/power-lines.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj2qMX8kJ6JAxVgTEEAHSh3NYIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hCczRzRGEBI5c_8ExylZ2

This link is from the HSE. Explains quite a lot, everyone should have a read and show employees.

Regarding the accident at 33,000v(33kV) it recommends a safe distance of 3m. Having an insulated base pole would not have saved him.

Interesting read. Certainly not practical for us to get the power turned off for every window that is within their specified distance though is it?
I work mainly rural so would be getting the power turned off on a lot of jobs.
I was also thinking back to when I used to paint rendered houses. And also how many I see on a day to day basis where the power lines that attach to the house are painted in as well.
If we listen to all the HSE advice etc then it would be difficult to work at all. You would certainly be missing lots of windows.
I’ve worked with the poles for 19 years now and never been zapped. Maybe I’ve been lucky?
I can’t help but feel that as long as you aren’t touching the cables with your pole or spraying too much water anywhere near them then apart from some very obvious dangerous old cables you should be fine.
Again this is just my opinion and everybody should of course work as safely as they feel they have to.