Employee nightmare

[Iron Giant]

Bonus incentive would be the easiest option if your intent of having some one work for you, As self employed could be a minefield as he is cleaning your clients windows he is using your tools and your paying him = his employed by you. 

Personally depends how much you want to grow your business longterm, Personally i wouldn't employ even if someone else was paying a young lads wages it's pure headache I have heard the same story for the last 15 years or so, Young lads can't stick window cleaning it's not easy the finish of the job has to right with good attention to detail the weather is the biggest put off plus some people still see it as a crabby job. 

I was talking to a old guy last week who I have known for years,  who isn't far off 70 years old and still tradding he worked with his brother for over 40 years until he passed away last year and has struggled to find anyone willing to work so he has had to either sell work on or just let it go.

I also know another guy who wfp's the tops and is houses ahead of the lad who works for him tradding the bottoms while he just cracks on and chats to clients and stood talking to me for 15 minutes this week, I honestly felt bad for the lad as he didn't look happy at all. 

 

[Daniel Perkins]

It is an absolute minefield employing someone to do what we do because not many people can hack it long term & people do not wanted to be slogging their guts out long term for a s**t wage. I have been holding off so years now on employing someone as I know what nightmare awaits but in the process i'm killing myself trying to get around to do all the work. I'm sitting here with hot water bottle on my back & lashing in some brufen, getting ready to go out and do my first days work in 9 days as I damaged my back.... that's the other side of it

IMO you have to be lucky in who you take on & need to have loads of work so as to give a good wage & keep the enthusiasm there for the guy. Nothing that sparks more enthusiasm that the incentive to make more money. I do wish you the best of luck anyways mate.

 

[Dave Shaw]

Are you payin him enough? As the old sayin goes - pay peanuts and you get monkeys. You expect your customers to pay a good price for your workmanship so why would your worker expect anything less. Coming from being an employee in this job I can certainly vouch that your standards do increase considerably once it’s your own money your playing with. Although domestic cleaners aren’t classed as being highly skilled jobs it is very demanding and if your payin someone minimum wage or thereabouts I wouldn’t expect much attention to detail back.


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[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Firstly, making him self employed is a whole new minefield in itself, not just from a legal standpoint but consider this: 

You hire me to clean windows for you, you give me 15 jobs to do on a Tuesday, end of the day only 10 are done. 

'Why is this?' you ask
'I had to do my own customers before I do yours mate' is my reply

'What do you mean your own customers?'

'That's what I mean, you made me self employed as you're too lazy to deal with the paperwork so I been picking up my own customers for myself whilst on the rounds, I'll get yours done if I have time' 

Before you all jump in with 'I'll have a written agreement etc'  no agreement preventing someone from working will hold any water in front of the judge.  

There are only two real options. 

1: Sub the work out to an existing window cleaner that you know but don't be surprised at the very small slice of pie you get back.  After all let's say its a £15 house just HOW LITTLE do you think a sub contractor will settle for?  You'll need to pay him at least £10 for that house otherwise he may as well do his own full priced work.  

2: Grow your business properly and employ.  Factors to consider here, you are going to need to interview 20 - 40 people to find that 1 person worth keeping.  Stop looking for kids to do the work, kids don't want to work, you should be looking for someone 40+ these people are usually grateful for the chance and have responsibilities so ensure that their paycheck is earnt every week.  as Dave Shaw points out above you are almost certainly not paying enough, minimum wage?  Are you joking? most of us here are here cause we are sick of minimum wage jobs and trying to better ourselves, what makes your star employee any different?   £10 per hour?  Now were getting somewhere.  But if you want true quality and loyalty from an employee that you want to make £30 - £50 per hour for you then £15 per hour is more like it.  

You don't need to know a lot, just how to handle his tax and N.I and pension contributions and what his holiday entitlements etc are.  

The book you need is called Employment Law from Birth to Death.  Here is the link https://www.indicator-flm.co.uk/en/employment-law-from-birth-to-death  But remember this is only a book for those wishing to take their business seriously.  

Anyone wishing to try to Scrooge their employees and hire that kid that hangs out at the bar all day complaining there's no work out there may as well just quit now, you're never going to get anywhere. 

 

[P4dstar]

Firstly, making him self employed is a whole new minefield in itself, not just from a legal standpoint but consider this: 

You hire me to clean windows for you, you give me 15 jobs to do on a Tuesday, end of the day only 10 are done.  

To be fair this guy is trading I believe, a kit and a ladder is only a couple of hundred quid (if that) so it would be easy for the lad to set up on his own. If it was WFP it’s a little different because it costs a lot more to set up. If eventually you send him off alone and stole your customers a written agreement would be pretty useless.

There are a lot of ‘self employed’ jobs that treat you like an employee. My mate the plumber is an example but as @Green Pro Clean Ltd suggested, he does his own customers too (using his bosses van and kit) I know a bailiff who is self employed, they expect certain KPI’s to be hit weekly. Just because someone is self employed doesn’t mean they are free to do what they like. In order to secure a ‘contract’ with you they would need to meet certain criteria as we do to secure a ‘contract’ with a customer.

I think the biggest point here is picking the right employee but don’t forget to incentivise them a little. As an 18 year old I worked for Wetherspoons. I made sure I was the first person in and the last person out each day. I took few days off and worked harder than anyone else and got promoted faster. I worked for £4.10 an hour when I started but within a year I was a manager... I only worked that hard because I had the incentive to get something, without that I would have just gone with the flow of the job.

as Green said, if you pick the lad who’s hanging around the pub all day it won’t work well. Also, don’t waste time with someone who has someone else looking for a job for them! If they ain’t looking themselves they ain’t gonna stick around. Saw an example of this last night where a girl on Facebook was asking if there are any jobs about for her bloke. One chap told her straight, he needs to look for his own work, if he can’t be bothered to do that then how will he be bothered to get out of bed?

 

[dmw]

I had it years back where my wife's friends husband was trying to find work no probs I said to her if he calls round ours on Monday I'll give him a trial.
I'm still waiting.

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[P4dstar]

I had it years back where my wife's friends husband was trying to find work no probs I said to her if he calls round ours on Monday I'll give him a trial.
I'm still waiting

Rookie mistake. You never said which Monday :1f602:

 

[Iron Giant]

Employed and self employed under contract lads will pick up work out of their own seen it plenty over the years

County Durham Lad

 

[adamangler]

I pay a basic wage and then a bonus as a % of extra work over the minimum amount.

I think thats the best way for me, i can only afford to pay more if they do more. 

I dont work out the bonus daily, i do it weekly as it keeps it more consistent.

 

[RWCleaning]

I pay a basic wage and then a bonus as a % of extra work over the minimum amount.

I think thats the best way for me, i can only afford to pay more if they do more. 

I dont work out the bonus daily, i do it weekly as it keeps it more consistent.

This is a good idea. When I first started out window cleaning 4 years ago working for my old boss, he paid me £100 a day basic, then 20% of anything over £300 we did. Our best day was £400 I think. 

I was very slow when I started out, then after 4/5 months I branched out on me own. Now I hear my old boss can do £500/£600+ in a day now with two of them in a van. Good money for both of them 

 

[Tuffers]

This is a good idea. When I first started out window cleaning 4 years ago working for my old boss, he paid me £100 a day basic, then 20% of anything over £300 we did. Our best day was £400 I think. 

I was very slow when I started out, then after 4/5 months I branched out on me own. Now I hear my old boss can do £500/£600+ in a day now with two of them in a van. Good money for both of them 

And then you hit the 40% tax and VAT further down the line.

 

[Sam Hodgson]

so many posts on this thrbut thought I'd chime in with my experience employing people.

Work ethic and customer service skills are all you need, the rest can be taught...

I usually take people on a 2 week paid trial period to see if you like how they work and equally important for them to decide if this is the sort of thing they want to do for a considerable amount of time. for the first week, you're going to be working on a loss, checking windows etc. showing them bits they've missed etc. I remember how long it took me to get fast. I'd keep them with me for a month minimum and then think about giving them small lists to go and do on their own, or dropping them off on a run etc. You have to invest a good amont of time and money to train someone up but it soon pays off. if youre struggling with too much work then you could just employ a 'window cleaning mercenary' and pay him top dollar. I've had a few of them when I've been bogged down with work who just go round doing days here and there for a few companies, they're usually quick and decent standard and can plough through lists.

Now I just employ Polish as Engish lads round here aren't worth the effort, also because of the language barrier they are unable to branch off and start up on their own so they're usually happy to stay.

 

[RWCleaning]

And then you hit the 40% tax and VAT further down the line.

He works 3 days a week, but is yeh constantly trying to stay under the threshold. He sells a round every year.

 

[TWC]

I’ve been thinking about employing but would certainly want to give 8 or even 12 weeks trial to see if there the right fit. Would probably look at £10 per hour but put a bonus of £1 per house cleaned on top but with the penalty of losing all bonus for the day if they get a complaint. Hopefully that would give an incentive to be productive but detailed in their work. 

Its just the worry of how many do you have to go through to find the right one for the job

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I’ve been thinking about employing but would certainly want to give 8 or even 12 weeks trial to see if there the right fit. Would probably look at £10 per hour but put a bonus of £1 per house cleaned on top but with the penalty of losing all bonus for the day if they get a complaint. Hopefully that would give an incentive to be productive but detailed in their work. 

Its just the worry of how many do you have to go through to find the right one for the job

When we employed previously we hired on a two week trial that would lead to 3 month probationary period.  

Your plans to threaten with loss of bonus is flawed.  Who wants to work for someone that threatens them from the start? 

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

this is pictured from the book I mentioned earlier.  Buy a used one off eBay and it will still have an active log in code as it has a massive up to date web site full of resources. 

 

[P4dstar]

this is pictured from the book I mentioned earlier.  Buy a used one off eBay and it will still have an active log in code as it has a massive up to date web site full of resources. 

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Yeah man it’s much more complex than it used to be. In my last job we employed a girl who was horrifically lazy. I wanted to just drop her but the HR department stopped me. Even though this person was on probation we had to build a case for letting her go. You have to warn them about things, for example she took an hour and a half lunch and I had to document myself telling her how long lunch should be ??‍... on the other side of it, if you let someone go now no court in the land would hear the case unless they’ve worked with you for 2 years or they have a claim that you were discriminating against them on grounds of race, sexuality etc etc. 

Compared to 15 years ago when I worked for Wetherspoons and we just let a lad go after a week with no notice because he was too slow. A lot has changed in that time.

 

[Sam Hodgson]

I’ve been thinking about employing but would certainly want to give 8 or even 12 weeks trial to see if there the right fit. Would probably look at £10 per hour but put a bonus of £1 per house cleaned on top but with the penalty of losing all bonus for the day if they get a complaint. Hopefully that would give an incentive to be productive but detailed in their work. 

Its just the worry of how many do you have to go through to find the right one for the job

I just pay my lads %70 of the work they get done and I keep %30. To maintain good work if they get a callback then I take the price of the house from them and make them go back to redo.

I find it’s an easier way of doing things as then it’s up to them what they want to earn and I don’t have to be hounding them for not doing enough work etc. 

Plus then if they do big lists they get paid big money and everyone’s happy.

 

[TWC]

When we employed previously we hired on a two week trial that would lead to 3 month probationary period.  

Your plans to threaten with loss of bonus is flawed.  Who wants to work for someone that threatens them from the start? 

Every company I ever worked for had bonuses based on performance. Be that hitting financial targets or KPI’s. When being told my targets did I ever feel I was being threatened?

no, it gave me something to strive toward. 

Your wages are your wages, your bonus is for achieving the correct targets

 

[TWC]

I just pay my lads %70 of the work they get done and I keep %30. To maintain good work if they get a callback then I take the price of the house from them and make them go back to redo.

I find it’s an easier way of doing things as then it’s up to them what they want to earn and I don’t have to be hounding them for not doing enough work etc. 

Plus then if they do big lists they get paid big money and everyone’s happy.

70% seems a fairly large cut but obviously if it works for you why not. 

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Every company I ever worked for had bonuses based on performance. Be that hitting financial targets or KPI’s. When being told my targets did I ever feel I was being threatened?

no, it gave me something to strive toward. 

Your wages are your wages, your bonus is for achieving the correct targets

Nothing to do with offering a bonus....... my issue was with your wording in your previous post.  If they don't do this or don't do that they'll LOSE the bonus.  That pretty much goes without saying. 

I would go the route of explaining to them how the get the bonus.... not how they lose something they haven't earnt yet. 

Am I making sense?