Fitting immersion heater

[PC]

Hi all
Quick one. I’ve finally decided to bite the bullet and fit an immersion heater in my tank in the van. Never ever thought I would but as I’ve got older I seem to be feeling the cold more.
I’ve ditched the shorts as well a couple of days ago and normally wear shorts into December!!!
My question is do I need to change my hose reel and the pole hose?
I’m thinking not as by the time I start work the water wouldn’t be super hot but I don’t actually know. So if anyone has fitted one would be appreciated if I could pick your brains. Also any issues that you found whilst using a set up like that would be good.
Thanks I’m advance

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Hi all
Quick one. I’ve finally decided to bite the bullet and fit an immersion heater in my tank in the van. Never ever thought I would but as I’ve got older I seem to be feeling the cold more.
I’ve ditched the shorts as well a couple of days ago and normally wear shorts into December!!!
My question is do I need to change my hose reel and the pole hose?
I’m thinking not as by the time I start work the water wouldn’t be super hot but I don’t actually know. So if anyone has fitted one would be appreciated if I could pick your brains. Also any issues that you found whilst using a set up like that would be good.
Thanks I’m advance

Well done, makes life alot easier especially on first cleans. The issue i found was the connections. Hot water will make the hose expand so any connections not tight will begin to leak that's what I found out. I run with Exceed red hose for years and no problems so far.

 

[Pjj]

We use hot water but not immersion heater we use normal 6 mm micro bore hose and the green pu Gardiner’s pole hose and it’s fine ,you might find with hot water you need to put 2 clamps on hose fittings to stop leaks as hot water is a lot thinner than cold and will come out of the slightest gap .

 

[PC]

Thank you for the replies. Appreciated. One more - I work an hour away from home every day. Would the water still retain enough heat to justify putting the immersion in? I don’t know how hot the water will be to start with as I’m still researching but could anyone tell me how hot their water is when they leave the house and at what temperature it would be roughly say around 3pm? That’s with leaving at 7.00 in the morning.

 

[ched999uk]

Just as an example to heat 500lts of water starting at 6 Deg C to 50 Deg C requires 25Kw of electricity provided all the energy is retained! So you really need to insulate your tank to hold the heat in.

If you have a 2 KW immersion heater (any bigger than 2Kw really needs a bigger supply than a 13Amp plug and an appropriate cable) the it would take over 12 hrs to get it to 50DegC if it started at 6DegC.

This site helps with the calcs: Water Heating Calculator

 

[PC]

Just as an example to heat 500lts of water starting at 6 Deg C to 50 Deg C requires 25Kw of electricity provided all the energy is retained! So you really need to insulate your tank to hold the heat in.

If you have a 2 KW immersion heater (any bigger than 2Kw really needs a bigger supply than a 13Amp plug and an appropriate cable) the it would take over 12 hrs to get it to 50DegC if it started at 6DegC.

This site helps with the calcs: Water Heating Calculator

 

[PC]

Thanks for that mate. So if it’s 50 when I set off and provided I insulate the tank what kind of temperature would you think it would still be around 3pm on a winters day.
I will be going for 3kw with the appropriate electrical supply.

 

[ched999uk]

Thanks for that mate. So if it’s 50 when I set off and provided I insulate the tank what kind of temperature would you think it would still be around 3pm on a winters day.
I will be going for 3kw with the appropriate electrical supply.

Just be careful with 3Kw as you need a 16Amp plug and appropriate cable not just any old extension cable. Most extension cables wont take over 16 amps for a long duration unless correctly specced!
Maintaining your temp all depends on insulation. While I can guess I wouldn't be able to provide any real world experience as I don't use hot water. I have seen some people use the foil coated bubble wrap to wrap the tank in a couple of layers - Squeeky Clean Dave on youtube and his brother do this with immersion heaters if you look at his vids he may have a real world answer.
If you can insulate with 50mm of closed cell Celotex type insulation then I can't see you would lose much temp at all during the day but obviously as the water level drops the space it creates is fitted with cold air which won't help.
Insulation is a funny thing especially in a van, if you have some heat leakage it can help to keep hose reels and filters if in the van a bit warmer to stop them freezing. Some add foil backed closed cell foam to the roof to try and hold heat in. 500lts of water at a decent temp is a big mass of heat, like a huge radiator!

 

[PC]

Some good points to consider
Thank you

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Looks like it could cost a tenner to heat the tank.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

I did this last year. I found it took around 12 hours to get the water from 6 to 40c using a 2kw heater.

I insulated the tank with the bubble foil.

Having tested through the day with a temp probe the water took and good journey to get it all the water to be the same temp.

And I found the temperature to be around 34c at around 3pm so it the foil insulation really works

But as stated above at £10 per tank to heat the water up per night instead of £3.80 I don't think I will be using unless it becomes stupidly cold as I found where I am if you wait until after 9am it wasn't massively needed most weeks

 

[PC]

I did this last year. I found it took around 12 hours to get the water from 6 to 40c using a 2kw heater.

I insulated the tank with the bubble foil.

Having tested through the day with a temp probe the water took and good journey to get it all the water to be the same temp.

And I found the temperature to be around 34c at around 3pm so it the foil insulation really works

But as stated above at £10 per tank to heat the water up per night instead of £3.80 I don't think I will be using unless it becomes stupidly cold as I found where I am if you wait until after 9am it wasn't massively needed most weeks

Thanks for that Bob. Just what I needed to know. Agree though that it certainly isn’t cheap. But for what it costs to have it there in place I think I will do it and use sparingly as you said you were going to do. Should help to keep me working through some really cold days so if you consider potential lost earnings on those days then the £10 a night isn’t a lot really.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

Thanks for that Bob. Just what I needed to know. Agree though that it certainly isn’t cheap. But for what it costs to have it there in place I think I will do it and use sparingly as you said you were going to do. Should help to keep me working through some really cold days so if you consider potential lost earnings on those days then the £10 a night isn’t a lot really.

It's not alot in the scheme of things but I found that most days last winter I was heating water up just for the morning so this year I will be making judgements on the day ahead but fortunately I do look forward to abit of down time this winter

 

[Scots lad]

I've had an immersion in my tank a few years now ,I have it bubble wrapped but also have kingspan boards around the sides my water gets up to 65 degrees and stays warm all day , just keep checking your connections and tighten if needed ,£10 to earn a days wages that you wouldn't is a no brainer

 

[PC]

good info thanks mate

 

[Iron Giant]

I've had an immersion in my tank a few years now ,I have it bubble wrapped but also have kingspan boards around the sides my water gets up to 65 degrees and stays warm all day , just keep checking your connections and tighten if needed ,£10 to earn a days wages that you wouldn't is a no brainer

Winters are never that bad anymore, I won't have lost any more days due to freezing temps than someone using hot water I have been trading for over 22 years and it's the 1-2ft of snow that stops play the only major disruption was the winter of 2009-2010 when temps got down to -16c with heavy snowfall I had a 4x4 and a trolley system so still managed to get some work done and we were living in a small rural village and wouldn't see a snow plough till the afternoon as they were far too busy elsewhere,

We have had the 3 heavy snowfall incidents since then with well over 1ft of snow in a morning, no hot water system is getting any window cleaner through the snow and the carnage of gridlocked roads I won't even bother filling my van the night before as I won't put my van on a road with the bunch of idiots that haven't got a clue how to drive then get stuck and cause massive tailbacks just to get to an estate with people looking out of the windows instead of getting together with their neighbours and clearing the roads.

 

[PC]

Totally agree. It’s the old want or need dilemma. Do I actually need hot water - probably not. Do I want hot water - probably yes. The colder days seem to be harder to contemplate as you get older. Maybe I’m going soft I’m my old age ?
Still up in the air as to what to do to be honest.
All comments very welcome though

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Its a no brainer using hot water. How can you clean a pvc doors with cold water. You can scrub with cold and get there after more time in the end its all about time. Time is our most precious thing in life, so saving time means more work which means more money. If you are serious about this game then you have got to move over to hot water and see how quick it makes you work. Folk should try it for a day and see how much time they save.?

 

[Iron Giant]

Its a no brainer using hot water. How can you clean a pvc doors with cold water. You can scrub with cold and get there after more time in the end its all about time. Time is our most precious thing in life, so saving time means more work which means more money. If you are serious about this game then you have got to move over to hot water and see how quick it makes you work. Folk should try it for a day and see how much time they save.?

You've been trading for around 4 years as a windy and have 100-110 jobs so you are hardly serious, bought a 3k woodchipper after cutting down someone's tree that you had no permission to cut down how is the lumberjack sideline going?

 

[spruce]

Totally agree. It’s the old want or need dilemma. Do I actually need hot water - probably not. Do I want hot water - probably yes. The colder days seem to be harder to contemplate as you get older. Maybe I’m going soft I’m my old age ?
Still up in the air as to what to do to be honest.
All comments very welcome though

My experience is that we managed with cold water for some 16 years. We live on the North East coast so, granted, we don't experience the temperature drop a cleaner could experience inland.

I fitted a 2-man diesel heater into my current van a couple of years ago. (It was purchased as a repairs or repair heater, as it didn't work.) I have temperature sensors on the hot water exit side of the heater. Our hot water is set to approx 55 degrees C. On very cold mornings (ground frozen) the temperature at the brush head with say 3/4s of the hose out, is barely above lukewarm. (The warm water needs to push the cold out of 100m of hose and then warm up the hose first. The hose is then being cooled by the surrounding cold ground.) You have to be continuously working for a while before the water at the brush head gets any warmer, and a bit longer before you feel any warmth in the pole itself without gloves on.

We don't circulate hot water through the hose reel and back into the tank when we are on the move, so starting the next clean means the temperature in the hose has dropped a bit, and again, it takes a while before any significant water temperature rise at the brush head.

What does help is that it makes the hoses more manageable when the water isn't just above freezing. The downside is that a softer hose means the hose kinks more easily, so any coils or loops on the hose tend to hook up on obstacles.

Heating water in your tank will help to keep your van frost free overnight, depending on the level of insulation surrounding your tank. Like night storage heaters, you have to heat them in advance, anticipating the temperature the following day. What happens if the roads are impassable the following day, and you can't work? That's a waste of electricity in my books. This is one reason why I choose to heat water on demand.

I'm older than you are. I can honestly say having a source of hot water hasn't improved my ability to get through more work. At the temps we use, dirt doesn't just melt off the glass, nor does those horrid wax marks. Initially in cold weather we didn't spend too much time on each window because we were scared of cracking it, but that hasn't happened, so I've got back into my old cleaning routine.

The other thing to consider is that hot water flows easier. My experience is that you may need to turn your controller flow rate down. If you don't, you could well use more water if you stick to your usual cleaning routine. Rinsing is quicker with a higher water flow, but you will use more water on the initial scrubbing phase of the clean. With the heater on, I get through a little more water a day.

My diesel heater has only been used a couple of times this summer; not really out of necessity.

 

[PC]

Thanks for the info Spruce.
And did someone really say ‘how can you clean pvc doors with cold water’?
17 years with the reach and wash cleaning pvc doors with cold water and never had an issue. Always come up lovely. Strange that!
Obviously the hot water debate is each to their own. I’m only considering it for the really cold few days of the year but after reading some of the posts I may just park the immersion idea for now and go full heat on demand or just stick to the cold.
Keep up with the constructive posts. Very helpful. Thanks