Hi everyone. Another new one ?

[rigmarole]

Its true that a van mounts easier, but Ive certain jobs i just could not do without the backpack. Only a few mind. I used to lug 50kgplus electric cables around all day in a previous job so dont find it too heavy to be honest. If you like the job and its going well, get the whole kit asap ?

Thanks for the advice. Im currently just practicing trad at home and doing extra shifts at work to save up for a Gardiner backpack + SLX 25 and all the other stuff I need for a basic WFP set-up.

I should have enough in 1-2 months to buy everything. Then I can start practicing with that as there is a spotless water 15mins drive from me. 

 

[NewGuy]

I'm cautious that some might have velux windows.

Don't worry about these - just do the ones that you know you can reach.

I have a fair few houses where the veluxes are too high.  My pole will reach but it flexes too much and will rub on the tiles (even with a gooseneck).  I simply tell people what I can or can't reach and mostly they are fine because they can easily clean the veluxes themselves from inside their homes.

 

[harunh]

Hi,

I'm another newbie thinking of setting up a window cleaning business (I know I know). I've been doing a lot of research on YouTube / this forum. I've had businesses before (not related to this one) so I'm not totally green. ?

Just wanted to say hello to everybody!

I've found so much useful information on this forum already, so thanks for that!

A bit about me: I currently work in healthcare, but I'd like to leave. So I have a stable (but low paid) job and want to transition over to my own business eventually. I'm currently in Manchester but I'm moving to North Devon with my young family in 2 months. 

I just want a business so I can support my family, work hard at, and find some financial stability. I really want to be professional and make sure I do the best job possible for customers. My dad is a plumber/builder and I've worked with him in the past, so I've seen what being self employed is like.

I've bought the basics equipment for traditional stuff and I'm just practicing as much as possible at night on my own windows. Trying to get the skills to do it professionally.

I'm really interested in WFP systems too. Knew someone who fell off a ladder and it wasn't pretty.

I'd also like to ask if there are any window cleaners in the Manchester area who wouldn't mind a newbie tagging along for the day? I'd do my best to try and help as much as possible and there would be a nice bottle of (insert favourite spirit here) in it for you as well? I'd just like to see what the job is really like, I'd also like to see the WFP systems in action. To see if this game is really for me. 

Thanks in advance ?

Welcome to the window cleaning world , if your wanting to travel 2 hours away from Manchester and learn all about window cleaning 8-4 - i will provide u with full days training - i will show u how to do business in window cleaning mate . message me if in your interested mate  - i will assure you once uve done a days training with me u will be so confident and have all the right tools to become a succesful window cleaning business ? 


 

 

[ks789]

Thanks for the advice. Im currently just practicing trad at home and doing extra shifts at work to save up for a Gardiner backpack + SLX 25 and all the other stuff I need for a basic WFP set-up.

I should have enough in 1-2 months to buy everything. Then I can start practicing with that as there is a spotless water 15mins drive from me. 

Excellent, that takes away half the hassle, having a spotless nearby. I'd seriously take up harunh on his offer. Would really enable you to see if its for you or not. Many fall by the wayside, but would be handy if you dont get to waste the cash.

 

[rigmarole]

Welcome to the window cleaning world , if your wanting to travel 2 hours away from Manchester and learn all about window cleaning 8-4 - i will provide u with full days training - i will show u how to do business in window cleaning mate . message me if in your interested mate  - i will assure you once uve done a days training with me u will be so confident and have all the right tools to become a succesful window cleaning business ? 


 

Thanks mate! That would be really helpful. I don't mind traveling, because I know it'll be worth it. I'll send you a PM and we'll sort something out. ?

 

[rigmarole]

Excellent, that takes away half the hassle, having a spotless nearby. I'd seriously take up harunh on his offer. Would really enable you to see if its for you or not. Many fall by the wayside, but would be handy if you dont get to waste the cash.

Hoping I'm not going to be one of the failures. I really want this to work out, need to provide more for my family than minimum wage. I'm going to be sensible and take it one step at a time, but Keep moving forward. Excited to get a day to experience what it's really like. 

 

[spruce]

That's a good point. I've got an estate, do hopefully the pole should fit in there. I can fit an 8ft surfboard in, so I'm guessing it won't be an issue. 

I've had a quick look around the area that we will be moving to on Google maps and there are a few Victorian town houses, but mostly the houses seem like regular height ones. I'm cautious that some might have velux windows.

That's why I haven't decided on size yet, 22' or 25'. I've read through the forum and most people are suggesting one of those for a first pole. Someone also suggested the 25' and take off a section.

Would a univalve work with a Gardiner backpack? That might be important to save water for me.

Also just found out the new property is a water meter, so I'm hoping that isn't going to be an issue ?

Personally I would head toward an SLX27. Yes it is slightly heavier but you don't know what "heavy" means because you have never used a lighter pole to compare it with. Using an Extreme Gardiner brush will compensate for that additional weight to some extent. (Many years ago in York a driving instructor taught students to drive in a Mondeo Estate car. They were shocked when they first saw it but once they got going it became as 'normal' as learning to drive in a Corsa.)

I've had an SLX22 for 9 years and a CLX22 for a couple of years before that. I recently purchased the SLX27 and now I can reach bedroom windows in new builds that are built in the roof space. Prior to this I would have to use my SLX40. These types of houses are becoming more popular in our area anyway. A CLX27 is cheaper but a bit more whippy at full length which you probably won't use all that often.

Rather than lug a backpack around I would tend to gravitate toward a trolley such as a trolley from Purefreedom. It takes a normal 25 litre plastic container and has the battery and pump onboard. Either that or a sacktruck with a Gardiner backpack strapped to it.

My son loves to use the backpack but its too heavy for me to use constantly these days. If I use it I carry it half full of water. With a backpack you tend to start at the closest top window and work back to the furthest. With a WFP system we work the other way round.

If you are looking for a stable job then stay in Healthcare. At least you have a pension, paid holidays and sick pay benefit. You could start growing your business on days off. It takes a lot of hard and committed work to start a window cleaning round. It also takes time; years sometimes. Good loyal customers aren't 2 for a penny these days. To begin with you will pick up customers other window cleaners have dropped because they are messers. It's the 3 c's of the window cleaning business; canvass, clean and cull. You could find that only 1 customer is worth keeping out of 3 canvassed. When finding new customers is hard work dumping 2 new ones can be very difficult. A window cleaning business is fluid, built on shifting sands. Once loyal customers can become problem customers due to a change in their circumstances; loss of their job, retirement, divorce, etc.

 

[rigmarole]

Personally I would head toward an SLX27. Yes it is slightly heavier but you don't know what "heavy" means because you have never used a lighter pole to compare it with. Using an Extreme Gardiner brush will compensate for that additional weight to some extent. (Many years ago in York a driving instructor taught students to drive in a Mondeo Estate car. They were shocked when they first saw it but once they got going it became as 'normal' as learning to drive in a Corsa.)

I've had an SLX22 for 9 years and a CLX22 for a couple of years before that. I recently purchased the SLX27 and now I can reach bedroom windows in new builds that are built in the roof space. Prior to this I would have to use my SLX40. These types of houses are becoming more popular in our area anyway. A CLX27 is cheaper but a bit more whippy at full length which you probably won't use all that often.

Rather than lug a backpack around I would tend to gravitate toward a trolley such as a trolley from Purefreedom. It takes a normal 25 litre plastic container and has the battery and pump onboard. Either that or a sacktruck with a Gardiner backpack strapped to it.

My son loves to use the backpack but its too heavy for me to use constantly these days. If I use it I carry it half full of water. With a backpack you tend to start at the closest top window and work back to the furthest. With a WFP system we work the other way round.

If you are looking for a stable job then stay in Healthcare. At least you have a pension, paid holidays and sick pay benefit. You could start growing your business on days off. It takes a lot of hard and committed work to start a window cleaning round. It also takes time; years sometimes. Good loyal customers aren't 2 for a penny these days. To begin with you will pick up customers other window cleaners have dropped because they are messers. It's the 3 c's of the window cleaning business; canvass, clean and cull. You could find that only 1 customer is worth keeping out of 3 canvassed. When finding new customers is hard work dumping 2 new ones can be very difficult. A window cleaning business is fluid, built on shifting sands. Once loyal customers can become problem customers due to a change in their circumstances; loss of their job, retirement, divorce, etc.

Thanks for your detailed reply spruce. I've read quite a few of your posts on this forum already and they've been useful. 

I'll definitely consider the 27ft SLX then.

I really liked the look of the pure freedom trolley. The only thing that made me steer more towards the Gardiner backpack was cost. I thought it was a less risky purchase (in case my business doesn't do well), and I thought the Gardiner backpack would always be useful in the future if my business does do well.

Gardiner with a sack truck might be another good option. Ideally I'd like to save up and get a van system etc. But it feels more sensible for me to test the waters with the best value system first. Also it means I can start sooner and get up and going without having to wait and save more. I want to be starting at the end of spring at the latest.

As for the job situation, I'll definitely be keeping my day job until I get at least two full days and more demand. Just for the security. As for keeping the healthcare job long term, it's not an option. I work in a very dangerous section of healthcare and get paid minimum wage, the next step up is 3 years training and a job I really don't want to do. 

 

[Part Timer]

As for the job situation, I'll definitely be keeping my day job until I get at least two full days and more demand.

You will need to keep this under review as it might hinder your growth. I run a totally seperate business and initially concentrated on that and only spent spare time on the windows. It wasn't until I decided to concentrate on the windows did it grow and even then it wasn't 100% of my time.

I'd see how you get on initially, when you do start, and if you pick up work like @HWCSdid  then it might pay you to put your notice in earlier. To assist this option I'd keep holiday entitlement up your sleeve

 

[rigmarole]

You will need to keep this under review as it might hinder your growth. I run a totally seperate business and initially concentrated on that and only spent spare time on the windows. It wasn't until I decided to concentrate on the windows did it grow and even then it wasn't 100% of my time.

I'd see how you get on initially, when you do start, and if you pick up work like @HWCSdid  then it might pay you to put your notice in earlier. To assist this option I'd keep holiday entitlement up your sleeve

I'll keep that in mind thanks, it's a good point.

I'm lucky in that increasing / reducing my hours is very easy in my job as it's very flexible. 

I'm hoping that I can do half as well as hwcs, his thread was inspirational. He worked so hard. Until Jan next year I have a lot of childcare commitments, so I only have a solid 2 days a week. After Jan they are going to school, so I'm going to have a lot more working hours available.

 

[NewGuy]

To begin with you will pick up customers other window cleaners have dropped because they are messers.

We also pick up jobs from window cleaners that have been dumped by customers because they aren't doing a good job. 

So strive to be the best ?

 

[rigmarole]

We also pick up jobs from window cleaners that have been dumped by customers because they aren't doing a good job. 

So strive to be the best ?

Totally agree.

I might be very slow at first, but I don't want to compromise on price / quality.

 

[ks789]

Totally agree.

I might be very slow at first, but I don't want to compromise on price / quality.

Exactly mate. Speed will come with time. Like in any job.

 

[spruce]

We also pick up jobs from window cleaners that have been dumped by customers because they aren't doing a good job. 

So strive to be the best ?

This is true but virtually every new clean I've done over the years I've been told the same thing. Then as the job progresses we get the slow payment, can you leave it this time, leave it till next summer, etc. When they tell you that the previous guy stopped coming then your ears must pick up. Either the price was too low or they messed their cleaner around so he dumped them.

Your second comment is an interesting one. Can you ever do a 100% (perfect) job? I don't believe you can and I'm a perfectionist.

What standard do you believe you can achieve? What standard does the customer accept? Many years ago I was involved in a project at work which wasn't working out. My boss came to me and said," when all else fails Spruce, lower your standards." Is there a lesson in his words that still might apply to me today, some nearly 40 years later?

A local windie once told me that he is looking for customers who accept a 90% job. To achieve a 95 or 96% job will take him twice as long on each window and he needs to earn as much as he can a day. Those who expect a perfect job at the prices we get in this area can find another cleaner. His words shocked me because this isn't how I was raised as a kid. But his words carry an element to consider, especially as I tend to over clean.

When I clean windows I also spend time cleaning the muck out of the sill gap. Sometimes I spend more time doing that than cleaning and rinsing the actual window. I once helped a fellow windie a few times whose vehicle needed repairs. When he saw me cleaning the gap out he asked me what I was doing. Just wiping the ground window sills removes any muck that escapes the gap. Job went quickly not doing this. Was his approach wrong?

We have an old mining village near us. It comprises a couple of rows of 2 bedroom town houses, I guess some 140 houses in all.  The window cleaner who does them will only do fronts; an upstairs window, a downstairs window and the front door. A little while back he was charging £2 a house. He had most of them in the village. Anybody complains and he asks them what they expect for £2. No other window cleaner will pick up the odd house due to the prices he has pegged the jobs at. He gets through the cleans in a couple of hours and makes a good daily income. How do you react to that?

 

[scottish cleaning service]

When I started out I got a few new customers where the other guy does either side of them. After a few cleans you realise why, they usually have money problems and I stopped going back also. ?

 

[Crystalalan]

Like you Rigmarole, I had a day job (HGV driver) but did window cleaning at weekends and on occasional evenings. I started 10 years ago traditional window cleaning. It was kind of nice for me having the full time job as a safety net. I was a bit slow admittedly transistioning it into a full time occupation. I didn`t go full time until early 2018 but I found this a relatively worry free way of going about things. I was getting so busy that I had very little time to relax this was when I made the jump.

Then late 2019 I converted to WFP and have not looked back. I am so glad I did this. You will have the odd bad day but It feels so good to run your own window cleaning business and I would hate to go back to trucking again. Working for some one else.

I have spend a whole week with using my back pack and absolutely love it. What a bargain!

 

[swc1]

This is true but virtually every new clean I've done over the years I've been told the same thing. Then as the job progresses we get the slow payment, can you leave it this time, leave it till next summer, etc. When they tell you that the previous guy stopped coming then your ears must pick up. Either the price was too low or they messed their cleaner around so he dumped them.

Your second comment is an interesting one. Can you ever do a 100% (perfect) job? I don't believe you can and I'm a perfectionist.

What standard do you believe you can achieve? What standard does the customer accept? Many years ago I was involved in a project at work which wasn't working out. My boss came to me and said," when all else fails Spruce, lower your standards." Is there a lesson in his words that still might apply to me today, some nearly 40 years later?

A local windie once told me that he is looking for customers who accept a 90% job. To achieve a 95 or 96% job will take him twice as long on each window and he needs to earn as much as he can a day. Those who expect a perfect job at the prices we get in this area can find another cleaner. His words shocked me because this isn't how I was raised as a kid. But his words carry an element to consider, especially as I tend to over clean.

When I clean windows I also spend time cleaning the muck out of the sill gap. Sometimes I spend more time doing that than cleaning and rinsing the actual window. I once helped a fellow windie a few times whose vehicle needed repairs. When he saw me cleaning the gap out he asked me what I was doing. Just wiping the ground window sills removes any muck that escapes the gap. Job went quickly not doing this. Was his approach wrong?

We have an old mining village near us. It comprises a couple of rows of 2 bedroom town houses, I guess some 140 houses in all.  The window cleaner who does them will only do fronts; an upstairs window, a downstairs window and the front door. A little while back he was charging £2 a house. He had most of them in the village. Anybody complains and he asks them what they expect for £2. No other window cleaner will pick up the odd house due to the prices he has pegged the jobs at. He gets through the cleans in a couple of hours and makes a good daily income. How do you react to that?

That a great post @spruce.

Its filled with insightful thoughts. 

The way I heard it, anything over 95% you lose time and money.

Not sure if I agree or not.

£2 guy has a monopoly in that area. Customers must deal with him now because the way he setup the area.

Word of advice never lower your standard for anyone or anything, you have to look at yourself in mirror or reflection in a window.

Great post!

 

[rigmarole]

This is true but virtually every new clean I've done over the years I've been told the same thing. Then as the job progresses we get the slow payment, can you leave it this time, leave it till next summer, etc. When they tell you that the previous guy stopped coming then your ears must pick up. Either the price was too low or they messed their cleaner around so he dumped them.

Your second comment is an interesting one. Can you ever do a 100% (perfect) job? I don't believe you can and I'm a perfectionist.

What standard do you believe you can achieve? What standard does the customer accept? Many years ago I was involved in a project at work which wasn't working out. My boss came to me and said," when all else fails Spruce, lower your standards." Is there a lesson in his words that still might apply to me today, some nearly 40 years later?

A local windie once told me that he is looking for customers who accept a 90% job. To achieve a 95 or 96% job will take him twice as long on each window and he needs to earn as much as he can a day. Those who expect a perfect job at the prices we get in this area can find another cleaner. His words shocked me because this isn't how I was raised as a kid. But his words carry an element to consider, especially as I tend to over clean.

When I clean windows I also spend time cleaning the muck out of the sill gap. Sometimes I spend more time doing that than cleaning and rinsing the actual window. I once helped a fellow windie a few times whose vehicle needed repairs. When he saw me cleaning the gap out he asked me what I was doing. Just wiping the ground window sills removes any muck that escapes the gap. Job went quickly not doing this. Was his approach wrong?

We have an old mining village near us. It comprises a couple of rows of 2 bedroom town houses, I guess some 140 houses in all.  The window cleaner who does them will only do fronts; an upstairs window, a downstairs window and the front door. A little while back he was charging £2 a house. He had most of them in the village. Anybody complains and he asks them what they expect for £2. No other window cleaner will pick up the odd house due to the prices he has pegged the jobs at. He gets through the cleans in a couple of hours and makes a good daily income. How do you react to that?

Some good food for thought there.

Luckily I do have a lot of customer service and sales experience, so that part doesn't worry me. I'll need a little time to work out my chat, but I know I'll get there with that. 

I do have an issue with being too much of a perfectionist. I'll have to keep that in check, I often get behind in my job because I want to do everything to a standard I'm happy with. I know it's wrong.

I guess really what I should be looking for is a standard slightly higher than the majority of the competition? And by standard I mean in all aspects, dress, reliability, customer service, quality of work etc. 

I like the story about the £2 guy. He sounds like a character. Not sure I'd like to be a person who just says "that's what you get for £2" I think it would make me feel terrible. I guess some people are like that. How long does it take him to do each house then? How fast can a good guy clean two windows and a door?

 

[rigmarole]

Like you Rigmarole, I had a day job (HGV driver) but did window cleaning at weekends and on occasional evenings. I started 10 years ago traditional window cleaning. It was kind of nice for me having the full time job as a safety net. I was a bit slow admittedly transistioning it into a full time occupation. I didn`t go full time until early 2018 but I found this a relatively worry free way of going about things. I was getting so busy that I had very little time to relax this was when I made the jump.

Then late 2019 I converted to WFP and have not looked back. I am so glad I did this. You will have the odd bad day but It feels so good to run your own window cleaning business and I would hate to go back to trucking again. Working for some one else.

I have spend a whole week with using my back pack and absolutely love it. What a bargain!

Nice to know someone who used to be in my position and is now enjoying doing your job! Hope to join you one day.

I'm not expecting window cleaning to be the dream job and be all sunshine and rainbows, but if it earns me more than minimum wage, I get to work for myself, and is less dangerous than my current job ... Then I'm in! ?

Luckily there's no risk for me in transitioning, I could leave my job and get it back easily. That's one positive with it, probably because nobody else wants to do it though!! Haha.

The more I talk to people, the more I think I'll just go WFP from the start. I can't see how I'll go wrong with buying the backpack, if I don't end up enjoying it, then it'll just be an expensive way of cleaning my own windows.

 

[Part Timer]

Some good food for thought there.

Luckily I do have a lot of customer service and sales experience, so that part doesn't worry me. I'll need a little time to work out my chat, but I know I'll get there with that. 

I do have an issue with being too much of a perfectionist. I'll have to keep that in check, I often get behind in my job because I want to do everything to a standard I'm happy with. I know it's wrong.

I guess really what I should be looking for is a standard slightly higher than the majority of the competition? And by standard I mean in all aspects, dress, reliability, customer service, quality of work etc. 

I like the story about the £2 guy. He sounds like a character. Not sure I'd like to be a person who just says "that's what you get for £2" I think it would make me feel terrible. I guess some people are like that. How long does it take him to do each house then? How fast can a good guy clean two windows and a door?

The window is either clean or dirty, there's no inbetween. As long as you get them clean on the first clean the maintaining of them is easy and much quicker. It's the initial clean that is the most important part of the job

 

[NewGuy]

The window is either clean or dirty, there's no inbetween. As long as you get them clean on the first clean the maintaining of them is easy and much quicker. It's the initial clean that is the most important part of the job

Yep, you will also concentrate on the frames, edgings and sills too on the first clean. Subsequent cleans will only involve a quick wipe. Hence people charging more for first cleans.

I'll only charge extra for first cleans if I think it will take double the usual maintenance cleaning time.