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HSE - Working at height - the ladder law

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Don't give them that chance. Once you begin wfp then you won't look back. I seen a guy today Trading town houses in a new estate. Must take him at least 30 minutes per house where i was less than 15 minutes and no risk.
Here’s the thing : some prospect customers, when they are paying a pre-agreed price, are only happy if they see "the help" working hard and taking a long time to do the job. They like to feel they're getting value for money by us running about. If the job is done in ten minutes with modern, professional equipment and techniques it can't be as good as if it takes twenty minutes the hard way with ladders, squeegees and cloths.

We had one this week. A new prospect next door to another new prospect. Both happened to ring us on the same day for quotes. Prices agreed. We did both at the same time. Then the elderly lady came out of one as we were about to go, asking if we were going to dry the windows? I told her no, the job was finished. She wasn't happy, paid me for that one clean but didn't want us to continue. That's a pity but it's no big deal. I wouldn't dream of telling a carpenter he's not allowed to use an electric drill, saw or screwdriver. Or telling a housewife she couldn't use a washing machine but instead would have to use a tin bath, scrubbing brush and washboard.

The other new customer phoned up later to say he was delighted with the result. It was his first time having wfp and he said he was a bit dubious when we drove off leaving the windows wet but when he saw how they dried lovely and clean and that all the frames and nooks and crannies had been washed out as we'd explained, he couldn't fault it. He said he looks forward to seeing us again.

Now, to my delight the lady next door will see the difference in the two houses every time she looks at the next door house. No traditional cleaner will ever get her windows to the standard I achieved with the wfp, quite impossible.

Then there's the operative to consider : For years I worked for contractors on pipelines and utilities. I worked with all sorts of people. Some few were a delight to work with. Numerous guys though, were not happy unless the jobs were being done the most bull-headed, awkward and difficult way, with beads of sweat dripping. I always held my ground and worked efficiently. I needed to as I was half the size and weight of most of them. I always kept my job even when some of the bulls were let go. Efficiency, professionalism and reliability was the thing that got me through some very worrying times of recession.

Now, I finally run my own business. I won't put myself at unnecessary risk to do an inferior job for the pleasure of a customer, nor will I make my work harder or slower than it needs to be and accept a lower income, for the same reason.

 
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She wasn't happy, paid me for that one clean but didn't want us to continue.
I usually say my hot water system cost £10k and its costs a grand a year to maintain it. I like the Picasso story when he was sitting in a cafe in Paris. A diner came over and asked if he would draw her. He took up a napkin and drew her. She asked how much and he said a thousand francs, she laughed and said it only took you 5 minutes. He replied it took me 55 years!

 
I usually say my hot water system cost £10k and its costs a grand a year to maintain it. I like the Picasso story when he was sitting in a cafe in Paris. A diner came over and asked if he would draw her. He took up a napkin and drew her. She asked how much and he said a thousand francs, she laughed and said it only took you 5 minutes. He replied it took me 55 years!
I know what you're saying, but I knew from her that I'd be wasting my time and energy. She was one of the "old colonial types". Used to getting her own way.

I simply told her I'd have my card and future payment sandwich bag back, as she had them in her hand, and I strided off to help my son finish the last bit of next door, before moving on to the next job. No working stride broken, or unnecessary time wasted.

We will quite happily have a short chat with some of our well liked customers but in a case like that, we'll give the barest minimum of time and leave them standing.

 
I know what you're saying, but I knew from her that I'd be wasting my time and energy. She was one of the "old colonial types". Used to getting her own way.

I simply told her I'd have my card and future payment sandwich bag back, as she had them in her hand, and I strided off to help my son finish the last bit of next door, before moving on to the next job. No working stride broken, or unnecessary time wasted.

We will quite happily have a short chat with some of our well liked customers but in a case like that, we'll give the barest minimum of time and leave them standing.
Woah, hold on! What a great idea! Giving a sandwich bag to customers for payments! Seriously I don’t know why I hadn’t thought of that before ??‍♂️ I have customers who utilise this method, but it never clicked to provide the bags so that more customers could take advantage. Thanks mate! ??

 
Better of losing that kind of customer who expects you to be there for an hour for what is a ten min job.

I think theres a good chance that no matter you do this kind of customer would find something to moan about...

I explain to the customers that say can wipe the drips off - no need to wipe them down, once they know most are ok with it. I tell them dont wipe them with a cloth or you will stain them after I have gone.

 
Woah, hold on! What a great idea! Giving a sandwich bag to customers for payments! Seriously I don’t know why I hadn’t thought of that before ??‍♂️ I have customers who utilise this method, but it never clicked to provide the bags so that more customers could take advantage. Thanks mate! ??
Welcome, Pin back your ears, Shrops. The devil is in the detail.

I've been using the same method for close to six years. From experience, the best bags are the genuine Ziploc sandwich bags (small size and waterproof). Write the price and the frequency on the back of a business card and put it in the bag for the customer to use and re-use. It's very professional and efficient from the customer's point of view. You choose a safe place at the back of the property for payments to be left. Make a record for yourself and tell the customer where you've decided. If you leave it to the customer to decide they will as often as not leave it in a different place each time and you'll be searching.

 
I actually don’t mind working from a ladder, but my wife who works with me sometimes hates seeing me up ladders. I had a small accident from not very high up, and basically put a bit of a gash in my leg, which took ages to heal when a ladder moved and off I came and the ladder struck my leg. I’d done the job loads of times before, but for some reason there was a slight change in the ground that day. This was a ground floor window, but was a bit higher than normal ones so I used a small ladder. When I had a look at my insurance it said something like you should use the safest method you have access to for cleaning windows - meaning WFP as I have it. I can only assume that had my accident been a serious one, I may not have been covered. Now I do mostly WFP, and have a few traditional jobs which are fine as they are because they’re little bungalows, and most are sheltered housing types where they are too far from the road to drag hose around, so using a squeegee is perfectly safe and also much quicker there.

 
I actually don’t mind working from a ladder, but my wife who works with me sometimes hates seeing me up ladders. I had a small accident from not very high up, and basically put a bit of a gash in my leg, which took ages to heal when a ladder moved and off I came and the ladder struck my leg. I’d done the job loads of times before, but for some reason there was a slight change in the ground that day. This was a ground floor window, but was a bit higher than normal ones so I used a small ladder. When I had a look at my insurance it said something like you should use the safest method you have access to for cleaning windows - meaning WFP as I have it. I can only assume that had my accident been a serious one, I may not have been covered. Now I do mostly WFP, and have a few traditional jobs which are fine as they are because they’re little bungalows, and most are sheltered housing types where they are too far from the road to drag hose around, so using a squeegee is perfectly safe and also much quicker there.
The HSE is very vague and they leave it like this on purpose. I mean  how would they police a ban on ladders ?

If you work on ladders get the appropriate insurance! 

Thousands of people use ladders every day:

  • window cleaners 
  • decorators
  • roofers
  • builders 
  • security system installers 
  • sky engineers

We choose ladders because it is the best way to complete our job ?

 
The HSE is very vague and they leave it like this on purpose. I mean  how would they police a ban on ladders ?

If you work on ladders get the appropriate insurance! 

Thousands of people use ladders every day:

  • window cleaners 
  • decorators
  • roofers
  • builders 
  • security system installers 
  • sky engineers

We choose ladders because it is the best way to complete our job ?
@Teddington Window Cleaners They wouldn’t be able to police that kind of thing anyway, they’re overrun enough as it is - far bigger things to worry about. It didn’t say ladders are banned, just something about selecting the safest working methods. In my case wfp is the safest for higher windows. I got a policy where ladders are on it because if I end up needing to access a difficult window, or do a little repair on gutters - like checking a downpipe, or replacing an end cap etc, I could’t do that with a pole.

 
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@Teddington Window Cleaners They wouldn’t be able to police that kind of thing anyway, they’re overrun enough as it is - far bigger things to worry about. It didn’t say ladders are banned, just something about selecting the safest working methods. In my case wfp is the safest for higher windows. I got a policy where ladders are on it because if I end up needing to access a difficult window, or do a little repair on gutters - like checking a downpipe, or replacing an end cap etc, I couldn’t do that with a pole lol.
@wgwindows Excellent! 

 
Accessing a roof all day from ladders is heavy work but working from ladders is harder. It knocks hell out of your body and the knees start to take a pounding. Wfp can be hard on the elbows and shoulders but a light pole makes all the difference. I still do a few customers trad but I'm getting fed up with it because I know the pole makes a better job of cleaning the whole window.

 
The HSE is very vague and they leave it like this on purpose. I mean  how would they police a ban on ladders ?

If you work on ladders get the appropriate insurance! 

Thousands of people use ladders every day:

  • window cleaners 
  • decorators
  • roofers
  • builders 
  • security system installers 
  • sky engineers

We choose ladders because it is the best way to complete our job ?
Sky Engineers are not allowed up ladders unless they are secured to the wall. They drill the wall and fit an anchor point. If you look at the wall under the Sky dish you will see a little cap halfway up. Even if they only go up on one rung the ladder has to be anchored. 

 
Sky Engineers are not allowed up ladders unless they are secured to the wall. They drill the wall and fit an anchor point. If you look at the wall under the Sky dish you will see a little cap halfway up. Even if they only go up on one rung the ladder has to be anchored. 
Aye, and they have to wear a hard hat on a small stepladder. There must have been a case where a dish fell on one of their employee's head and now mandatory hard hat to cover themselves. 

 
Sky Engineers are not allowed up ladders unless they are secured to the wall. They drill the wall and fit an anchor point. If you look at the wall under the Sky dish you will see a little cap halfway up. Even if they only go up on one rung the ladder has to be anchored. 
So they have to go up an unsecured ladder to drill the hole to secure the ladder? Doesn't that mean they do go up unsecured ladders once per job? ? 

 
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