Large Water Storage Tank

[P4dstar]

Heads up fella 

If you are going down this route. It is way better to have a on/off valve at the bottom of the tank. Then a industrial delivery pump with a 1 to 3 inch delivery hose. I have this set up and it has been bullet proof for 9 years. Never missed a beat. This way nothing goes in the tank, accept pure water. If you ever need to replace the pump or hose its easy. Also the gravity feed is great as the pump is always primed and ready to go. 2 1000 litre IBC tanks will run 3 vans easy. If you fill one at tea time then 2 in the morning.

Thanks dude. I think I get what you mean, so connect it through a pump (I imagine similar to my booster pump for my RO) the pump being stored outside of the tank and connected by a hose.

There is method to my madness. My IBC has issues, it was kindly given to me by Green Pro. He hadn't used it in a while so it had been stored outside. It appears the tank has deteriorated, now when the it's full it bulges a little, this in turn causes the float from the solenoid to come out of the water. Basically the system will start up every half hour for a few minutes.

If I were to replace the current set up with 2 new IBC's I'd be spending similar to the cost of the 3200 litre one.

My own personal method aswell.

I'm using a dual IBC setup which is off the ground on a double spill base.

2" outlets both link via 32mm flowplast pipe and a joining manifold i built. Both tanks are sealed only with pure water feed in and one way vent valves in the lids.

Both IBC can independently be drained and feed a Clarke 1200w 1" pump with a flow switch.

15m of 25m of wall mounted fire hose on a reel and fuel station style full nozzle.

Squeeze the nozzle and the pump starts up.

Like you say, Gravity pays 

I used to use a fuel nozzle, I switched over to one of these about a year ago;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JOINER-Coupler-Repair-inline-Brass/dp/B00ELAIRVE

I found the auto nozzles were expensive but got bored of manually filling. Also found this fills a little faster too.

 

[P4dstar]

I'm finally ready to order my new tank. When I started this thread I was looking at 3200L but taking on board comments around damaging foundations I've decided to go for 1500-2000L instead. hoping to pick your brains about a few more bits first....

Do I need a 'Potable' tank? I have read a few old conversations where people talk of the water becoming contaminated by the tank and to avoid this we should pay the extra for potable. 

When we talk about gravity feed would raising the tank using breeze blocks suffice?

The tanks seem to come with 1'' to 1 1/2'' outlets. You can have a tap and outlet fitted. Is this the sort of pump to then use as an out off tank delivery pump? https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051012200/

 

[Part Timer]

A potable tank only applies for drinking water I believe

 

[P4dstar]

A potable tank only applies for drinking water I believe

I thought that. It was a very old post I found on a site that isn't even used before, then someone mentioned it in an old post on CIU too. Basically they claimed that leaving water in the tank would lead to contamination. On both sites people argued this was incorrect but that you could buy a potable tank to resolve the issue completely. For the sake of £70ish I'd happily pay for a potable tank if I need it, that does limit the shape you can buy though.

 

[Part Timer]

I thought that. It was a very old post I found on a site that isn't even used before, then someone mentioned it in an old post on CIU too. Basically they claimed that leaving water in the tank would lead to contamination. On both sites people argued this was incorrect but that you could buy a potable tank to resolve the issue completely. For the sake of £70ish I'd happily pay for a potable tank if I need it, that does limit the shape you can buy though.

I would think that as the water is not laying around for months and it's not in direct sunlight you shouldn't have any contamination problems.

 

[P4dstar]

I would think that as the water is not laying around for months and it's not in direct sunlight you shouldn't have any contamination problems.

I reckon you're right. I was just dropping it into the thread incase someone had any scientific reason this couldn't be done. When you look on all of the tank suppliers websites they only ever list industries in which the water is used for irrigation or as grey water, window cleaning is a bit of an anomaly I guess as we don't drink the water but still can't have it contaminated ?

 

[phillip]

I try to give the tank a clean out every year. Bleach in a spray bottle sponge on a top section of a pole. Quick spray scrub rinse let drain rinse. This usually works fine.

 

[P4dstar]

I try to give the tank a clean out every year. Bleach in a spray bottle sponge on a top section of a pole. Quick spray scrub rinse let drain rinse. This usually works fine.

Yeah but if thats on an IBC they're potable (Suitable for the storage of drinking water). It's not contaminating the tank with water I'm looking at mate, it's contaminating the water with the tank.

 

[ched999uk]

Can't see anything harmful leaching out from the tank to contaminate the pure. Potable is, I believe a legal declaration that a tank is safe for drinking water. If in doubt ask the supplier of the tank.

As for pump the one you have linked to will work but at 61L/min it might take a few mins to fill your tank. The submersible ones are cheaper and most pump twice as fast although they are not capable of pumping up as high as the one you linked. I guess you don't need to pump up to 46meters above the pump. The submersible ones only go up to about 6 to 8 meters but I doubt that would be a problem?

When you say gravity feed what do you intend to do with that? 

 

[Iron Giant]

Do I need a 'Potable' tank? I have read a few old conversations where people talk of the water becoming contaminated by the tank and to avoid this we should pay the extra for potable.

As already covered only if you are drinking the water, the issue with plastic is it degrades and leaches chemicals into the water and I think tiny particles of plastic get into the water and you are drinking plastic down with your water, metal drinking bottles have become a big thing now. 

 

[P4dstar]

Can't see anything harmful leaching out from the tank to contaminate the pure. Potable is, I believe a legal declaration that a tank is safe for drinking water. If in doubt ask the supplier of the tank.

Done, good idea that! I never think of looking further than you bunch of reprobates ?

As for pump the one you have linked to will work but at 61L/min it might take a few mins to fill your tank. The submersible ones are cheaper and most pump twice as fast although they are not capable of pumping up as high as the one you linked. I guess you don't need to pump up to 46meters above the pump. The submersible ones only go up to about 6 to 8 meters but I doubt that would be a problem?

When you say gravity feed what do you intend to do with that? 

The plan is to build a raised area to sit the tank on out of breeze blocks, secure that together with a wooden surround so it can be moved relatively easily if required. The tanks have 1'' to 1 1/2'' outlets and can have tap fittings similar to an IBC. If the tank is raised it will be in a position to feed the pump and ensure it is always primed.

This plan came from the advice much earlier in this thread. I initially intended to have a submersible dirty water pump, much as I have in my current IBC. I planned to drill the hole through the top of the lid. It does seem sensible to have the pump outside of the tank though. My current dirty water pump is meant to supply 150L per minute but realistically it never did on 7m of hose, I've added another 25m to it now and it still fills pretty fast. I imagine with a Clarke pump like suggested above it will be running at near optimal condition being gravity fed and pumping no more than 10m though.

I am completely open to suggestions and advice on this still of course.

As already covered only if you are drinking the water, the issue with plastic is it degrades and leaches chemicals into the water and I think tiny particles of plastic get into the water and you are drinking plastic down with your water, metal drinking bottles have become a big thing now. 

The thing is, we spend so long taking tiny particles out of the water ??

 

[P4dstar]

Also to add to this. We're planning to move house to a new build which has prompted me to take the comments about about damaging the foundations a little more seriously. This is why I'm thinking a 1500-2000L tank is the way forward.

 

[Part Timer]

Why not just get a steel subframe, bolted together, manufactured and sit that on some sleepers. Easy to move if you have to.

 

[P4dstar]

Why not just get a steel subframe, bolted together, manufactured and sit that on some sleepers. Easy to move if you have to.

Wouldn't even know where to start mate, sounds like a better plan though. I only thought of breeze block as I've seen this done with rainwater harvesting. The blocks would be £50 from TP and the wood planks to surround it no more than £20 from the local timber yard.

 

[Part Timer]

Wouldn't even know where to start mate, sounds like a better plan though. I only thought of breeze block as I've seen this done with rainwater harvesting. The blocks would be £50 from TP and the wood planks to surround it no more than £20 from the local timber yard.

That's a cheaper way for certain

 

[Pjj]

Also to add to this. We're planning to move house to a new build which has prompted me to take the comments about about damaging the foundations a little more seriously. This is why I'm thinking a 1500-2000L tank is the way forward.

A 3000 ltr odd tank isn’t going to damage a concrete drive or garage floor the weight will be evenly distributed over a large area , if that were the case a car would cause damage as the contact area from the tyres is minimal but this doesn’t happen I think you are over complicating a simple task ????

 

[P4dstar]

A 3000 ltr odd tank isn’t going to damage a concrete drive or garage floor the weight will be evenly distributed over a large area , if that were the case a car would cause damage as the contact area from the tyres is minimal but this doesn’t happen I think you are over complicating a simple task ????

It wasn’t me, my plan was to just whack a 3.2tonne tank down and have done with it. @ched999ukhas me paranoid about damaging foundations... what he says makes sense to be fair. Smaller surface area and all that!

 

[ched999uk]

It wasn’t me, my plan was to just whack a 3.2tonne tank down and have done with it. @ched999ukhas me paranoid about damaging foundations... what he says makes sense to be fair. Smaller surface area and all that!

I may be being over cautious and that's because I don't know anything about concrete ratings or what specs a garage floor, especially on new build, is designed for. The only experience I have is when I used to work for MoD and we moved sites twice. I was involved with the architects and they had to design an area to house our fuel storage tanks and bunding systems. They started panicking when they realised the weight of the tanks plus the fuel as they hadn't designed the structure for that weight! It caused no end of arguments....

Maybe ask the developer what spec the concrete of the garage floor is then you can investigate what that spec will support? Alternatively ring or email the local council planning dept and ask them if they know what weight per sqm a new build garage floor can support. The other thing that concerns me is that new builds have to meet better and better insulation values. Our kitchen and Bathroom (bungalow) have had their suspended wooden floors replaced some time ago with concrete with zero insulation and they are freezing!!! So for a house with an integral garage the builders might have put insulation under the garage floor! Although if I read the Celotex spec correctly for an evenly distributed load it can take 9,000kg per m2!!! 

Ask developer and council to be safe. 

While a car is heavier it is distributed over say 8 to 10 square meters! Yours will be distributed over what 1.5m2?

Sorry to get you paranoid but new houses are built to a minimum spec and I would imagine an insurance company arguing that a windy tank in the garage is classed as commercial use so they might try and get out of a claim if you had cracks or subsidence issues.

As for pump, if it's in tank that is a lot of water to chill down to freezing to damage a pump. An external one might freeze easier? Plus more connections outside the tank to leak?

Sorry to worry you but better to err on side of caution than damage a house!!!!

 

[P4dstar]

Nah don't worry @ched999uk, when I thought I was staying in my rented house I wasn't too worried. Now were about to buy things are a little different. I'd rather be over cautious. I'll pop and see the site manager on Tuesday when I'm working over there.

With regards to the pump, the tanks will have a shut off valve on each, only need to open them when I'm filling so not to worried about leaks. If I let the pump freeze I'd also end up letting my RO freeze which would be a much more expensive issue haha.

With regards to the potable thing, I've just had an interesting (or boring depending on how you look at it) conversation with a neighbour who used to supply tanks to farms. He says that a non potable tank won't change the TDS of the water but it will affect the PH levels. While it might still read 0TDS it won't necessarily clean in the same way. He reckons it should still dry spotless but wouldn't necessarily attract dirt in the way the fresh pure normally does. If it was being used for tropical fish for example the PH would be too high and it wouldn't be fit for purpose.

 

[ched999uk]

With regards to the potable thing, I've just had an interesting (or boring depending on how you look at it) conversation with a neighbour who used to supply tanks to farms. He says that a non potable tank won't change the TDS of the water but it will affect the PH levels. While it might still read 0TDS it won't necessarily clean in the same way. He reckons it should still dry spotless but wouldn't necessarily attract dirt in the way the fresh pure normally does. If it was being used for tropical fish for example the PH would be too high and it wouldn't be fit for purpose.

Interesting. I guess you could find out what the tank is made of then buy a container made of the same stuff. Put some pure in it for a week or 2 then rinse your own windows with it and see what happens. 

I love techy details so not boring at all for me  :2_thumbs_up_-_animated:

Site manager should know or at minimum have the plans which should state what type of concrete and how thick/reinforced it is. Oh I wonder if the planning application would have that level of details? If they do they should be online on your councils web site!

 

[Iron Giant]

Why not just get a steel subframe, bolted together, manufactured and sit that on some sleepers. Easy to move if you have to.

When I quickly read this I thought it said submarine ? I thought no need to mention submarine just because he is originally for Liverpool, 

All together now, We All Live In The Yellow Submarine, The Yellow Submarine ?