Moving to reach and wash

[Davidoneman]

@Davidoneman

Looks like you are unlucky mate, im only 13 miles  from you and TDS is around 150 here..

Are you sure its that high?, i speak to a few window cleaners in west yorkshire and ive never heard of it anywhere near that.

If you are wanting a budget system, you are welcome to have a look in my vans, no fancy gear..

With some ebay purchases and second hand gear you can have a van mount for a few hundred quid.

Having a second look the settings on the tds meter was on the wrong setting its 342 which is still alot more than your’s but alot lower than what i origionally thought .

 

[Davidoneman]

Pole the tops and trad the bottoms hey?

Once you have mastered the pole you'll throw all your trad gear away mate.

Its so much easier and quicker. The cleans are far superior too.

Dont plan on only needing enough water for tops only because you'll only end up needing a bigger tank.

I was just thinking of doing it that way so the customers get used to the idea , alot of the customers i got was from people who had pole cleaners before and said they left windows spotty . So they may be abit reluctant when i mention im going to the pole , but ive not much choice in all fairness , i would rather do all with pole like you say its alot faster and easier . 

 

[paul alan]

I was just thinking of doing it that way so the customers get used to the idea , alot of the customers i got was from people who had pole cleaners before and said they left windows spotty . So they may be abit reluctant when i mention im going to the pole , but ive not much choice in all fairness , i would rather do all with pole like you say its alot faster and easier . 

I have converted these "no like the pole" types and the key is you have to VERY CONFIDENTLY reassure them that the windows will dry absolutely perfect.

If someone says something with enough authority chances are it will be believed.

Some will never get their heads around it but you cant win them all.

If you use the system correctly the results will be outstanding and customers will follow.

 

[Davidoneman]

I have converted these "no like the pole" types and the key is you have to VERY CONFIDENTLY reassure them that the windows will dry absolutely perfect.

If someone says something with enough authority chances are it will be believed.

Some will never get their heads around it but you cant win them all.

If you use the system correctly the results will be outstanding and customers will follow.

Thats why i come on here for suggestions on the kit to buy etc , as ive seen many cleaners with poles and thought to myself well surely they all cant be bad or they wouldnt get work . Just abit of thinking in front when it gets to warm weather how do you go on for people with windows open ? Do you message them the night before so they keep them shut ? 

 

[paul alan]

Thats why i come on here for suggestions on the kit to buy etc , as ive seen many cleaners with poles and thought to myself well surely they all cant be bad or they wouldnt get work . Just abit of thinking in front when it gets to warm weather how do you go on for people with windows open ? Do you message them the night before so they keep them shut ? 

I message the night before around 7 pm, at this time people are home from work.

I dont message all my customers just the ones who take up the offer. If I do come across an open window(at least once per day) I can shut it with the pole if possible, sometimes if its not fully open you can clean it anyway or just leave it if you cant close/clean it. Its the customers responsibility to close windows and not yours, i have never had a complaint as people can see why the window was not cleaned, because its open.

I was traditional for 2 years before moving to the pole and the difference is amazing. I hated climbing ladders as i dont like heights!

I love my job now and it is so much easier and quicker, you dont need to go from mopping the window to clothing the frames to blading the glass to scrimming the edges to clothing the sill, its all one process for everything.

If you can find someone local who would be willing to let come out with them for a day or two then do that, otherwise learning by yourself can take ages.

 

[Iron Giant]

I was just thinking of doing it that way so the customers get used to the idea , alot of the customers i got was from people who had pole cleaners before and said they left windows spotty . So they may be abit reluctant when i mention im going to the pole , but ive not much choice in all fairness , i would rather do all with pole like you say its alot faster and easier . 

Some lads don't take the time to master the wfp technique hence bad results, I know one windy who employs 2 lads because his clients as he put it don't like wfp but the trolley he uses for the odd jobs can't instill confidence he has what looks like a 120 litre blue barrel on a sack trolley. 

I watched the 3 of them clean a building near me last week and they were painfully slow imho, I could have wfped the lot faster than they managed to trad it. 

 

[james82]

I'v been traditional for 20 years now. I'm 35 now with a much older body cus of all the ladder work. Can't see me lasting till retirement this way I'v been thinking about converting to wfp but it has such a bad name where I work.
Does it really do a perfect job? I'm always setting little water spots on wfp work round my area.
What about bird muck and spider muck? You can't see that from the bottoms. After 20 years doing the same thing you really do get stuck in your ways but if wfp does do such a good job it's worth changing

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[High-tower]

Of course it does a good job, that’s why it’s rapidly becoming the industry standard... it has a bad name because of the operators not the system. If you are sloppy and do half a job you are going to have problems, but no different to dodging frosted windows, missing corners or frames and leaving strikes as a traditional cleaner. If you learn the right techniques and have the proper equipment it is far superior to traditional cleaning. 

 

[Davidoneman]

I'v been traditional for 20 years now. I'm 35 now with a much older body cus of all the ladder work. Can't see me lasting till retirement this way I'v been thinking about converting to wfp but it has such a bad name where I work.
Does it really do a perfect job? I'm always setting little water spots on wfp work round my area.
What about bird muck and spider muck? You can't see that from the bottoms. After 20 years doing the same thing you really do get stuck in your ways but if wfp does do such a good job it's worth changing

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Thats another reason why i am having to make the move , ive done traditional for nearly 15 years and im 38 but like you say it takes its toll on the joints ect so how long can you keep going up and down ladder carrying them about ect , im like you the pole has such a bad name that why ive come for recomendations on kit to buy so at least with the right kit your half way there . Ive done lots of looking and reading probably too much my brain has fried but suppose have to make the move at some point we arent getting any younger lol. 

 

[Davidoneman]

Of course it does a good job, that’s why it’s rapidly becoming the industry standard... it has a bad name because of the operators not the system. If you are sloppy and do half a job you are going to have problems, but no different to dodging frosted windows, missing corners or frames and leaving strikes as a traditional cleaner. If you learn the right techniques and have the proper equipment it is far superior to traditional cleaning. 

What is the best technique , squirt water on frame and glass then clean frame starting at top then rub glass then rinse off . I know there will be more to it but that sort of way . And yes like you say ive seen a company cleaning a nursing home and just went up and down half the panel of glass then moved onto the next so alot must be down to operator . Is there a special way to rinse off the water apart from starting at top and rinsing down , and is there a certain amount of flow you should have . Sorry for all the questions its just so much out there , different kit its mind blowing . 

 

[Daniel Perkins]

My back, shoulder and thumb joints have taking a pounding over the years doing both trad and wfp work. I got the wfp trolley and it's great but lagging around 25L of moving water is not good for anyone. RSI is a nightmare in our job, I have had it in my shoulder and thumb joints for about a year now. Definitely getting a van setup is a much better idea than using the trolley system. Looks better, easier to use and better for the body... something that I will be switching over to.

 

[High-tower]

My biggest tip is to use a high flow rate, I run my controller at 70-80%. Most problems are caused by not being thourough enough when scrubbing and and not having a high enough flow to rinse all the dirt away. Messing around with backpacks is the biggest cause of this, trying to stretch out 25l as far as it’ll go. Get a van mount, nothing smaller than 350l, 500 or 650 ideally. No point holding your business back by not having enough water. 

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

People will always defend the method they use.  They dont want to seem like perhaps they made the wrong decision on gear. 

Sure budget plays a huge part on start up but remember the old adage penny wise pound foolish. 

You could save £100 choosing the budget set up but the premium set up works quicker so will allow you to do 4 extra houses in the same time.. Which is truly the better system for you?   

Hope you get the example.  

On to my opinion..... and that's all it is... an opinion.... trolleys and back packs are an add on tool for a professional window cleaner, they are not the way forward for building a professional wfp based business.  The only way is a good van mount. 

Say you land a nice commercial contract.....  4 hours work.... using a 20L backpack.... you need to go refill on average 24 times to get the job done.  That 4 hour job just became a 7 hour job..  with a 500 or 600 litre van mount no refills and its a 4 hour job. 

People too often set up for where there business is now..... they should be buying for where their business will be in 12 months time.... strong growth is only possible with the right tools.  

Buy cheap buy twice. 

 

[Dave Shaw]

I’ve found that most problems occur when using wfp stem from not doing a thorough first clean. Even if they’ve been done traditionally there will still be a lot of dirt hidden away that’s not visible. Mostly from trickle vents and in the seals and around the edges of openers. Fairly new windows are pretty straight forward as there’s not much ingrained dirt but older windows and especially the ones were you get one main bottom pane plus two openers above start to cause problems as you get runs coming from between the openers and straight down the main pane. I’ve got some old windows on my round that are still doing that even after a thorough first clean and a few years of regular cleans. These have to be methodically cleaned doing all the openers first and then going back round doing the bottom panes next. I sometimes wonder if it would be quicker to whip the ladder off and just trad em.


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[Dave Shaw]

People will always defend the method they use.  They dont want to seem like perhaps they made the wrong decision on gear. 
Sure budget plays a huge part on start up but remember the old adage penny wise pound foolish. 
You could save £100 choosing the budget set up but the premium set up works quicker so will allow you to do 4 extra houses in the same time.. Which is truly the better system for you?   
Hope you get the example.  
 
On to my opinion..... and that's all it is... an opinion.... trolleys and back packs are an add on tool for a professional window cleaner, they are not the way forward for building a professional wfp based business.  The only way is a good van mount. 
 
Say you land a nice commercial contract.....  4 hours work.... using a 20L backpack.... you need to go refill on average 24 times to get the job done.  That 4 hour job just became a 7 hour job..  with a 500 or 600 litre van mount no refills and its a 4 hour job. 
 
People too often set up for where there business is now..... they should be buying for where their business will be in 12 months time.... strong growth is only possible with the right tools.  
 
Buy cheap buy twice. 

I made that mistake but luckily the trolley system I used had the same components as a van mount(pure freedom trolley) so it was just a case of buying a tank plus fittings, stripping my trolley and putting it all back together as a van mount. There’s nothing worse than timing and rushing jobs based on how much waters left in a barrel or it running out half way through a house and messing about with air locks every time your barrel runs dry. I’m now thinking of getting a backpack for those awkward to get to property’s as I’m still finding a few of my jobs are easier and quicker to clean traditionally rather than lugging 100 metres of hose down communial backs etc.


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[james82]

 
Thats another reason why i am having to make the move , ive done traditional for nearly 15 years and im 38 but like you say it takes its toll on the joints ect so how long can you keep going up and down ladder carrying them about ect , im like you the pole has such a bad name that why ive come for recomendations on kit to buy so at least with the right kit your half way there . Ive done lots of looking and reading probably too much my brain has fried but suppose have to make the move at some point we arent getting any younger lol. 

Yeah we're not getting any younger. [emoji19] makes you wonder why so many do a bad job wfp if can be so good. I'm still concerned over wether it would remove dried bird and spider poo as it can't be seen from ground level. Still will have to make the switch at some point

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

Of course it does a good job, that’s why it’s rapidly becoming the industry standard... it has a bad name because of the operators not the system. If you are sloppy and do half a job you are going to have problems, but no different to dodging frosted windows, missing corners or frames and leaving strikes as a traditional cleaner. If you learn the right techniques and have the proper equipment it is far superior to traditional cleaning. 

Thanks for your reply mate.
Dodging frosted Windows missing frames and leaving smears is the work of cowboys. Does the reach and wash get rid of dried bird and spider muck cus that's my biggest worry if doing its only cowboy wfp work that causes spotting!

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[Dave Shaw]

Thanks for your reply mate.
Dodging frosted Windows missing frames and leaving smears is the work of cowboys. Does the reach and wash get rid of dried bird and spider muck cus that's my biggest worry if doing its only cowboy wfp work that causes spotting!

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So many do a bad job because they see it as an easy fix when it’s not. It is far quicker, does a deeper clean and is a lot safer but sometimes depending on what jobs I’ve been doing I can feel more tired and achey from doing a full day on the pole than doing a full day on the ladder.


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[Davidoneman]

Yeah we're not getting any younger.

makes you wonder why so many do a bad job wfp if can be so good. I'm still concerned over wether it would remove dried bird and spider poo as it can't be seen from ground level. Still will have to make the switch at some point

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

Thanks for your reply mate.
Dodging frosted Windows missing frames and leaving smears is the work of cowboys. Does the reach and wash get rid of dried bird and spider muck cus that's my biggest worry if doing its only cowboy wfp work that causes spotting!

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 

I watched a video on youtube what they did with bird muck was covered the bird muck with water and left it afew mins to soak in then came back to it ans seemed to remove it ok . But its aways a worry as when your on the ground you dont see whats in front of you . But looking ahead the speed you can clean a house using the pole compaired to using ladders its got to be the way forward , suppose you have to factor in loosing some customers unless keep cleaning them traditional if easy enough of a job or just let them go ? 

Do the poles have a on / off switch so you dont waste loads of water

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I'm still concerned over wether it would remove dried bird and spider poo as it can't be seen from ground level. Still will have to make the switch at some point

You will learn to see it.  The more you look the easier it gets.  Yes it will remove it with elbow grease.   Or if you go van mount it cost £100 to convert to hot water that will produce 70 degrees and strip it off in seconds. 

 

[Davidoneman]

You will learn to see it.  The more you look the easier it gets.  Yes it will remove it with elbow grease.   Or if you go van mount it cost £100 to convert to hot water that will produce 70 degrees and strip it off in seconds. 

You will learn to see it.  The more you look the easier it gets.  Yes it will remove it with elbow grease.   Or if you go van mount it cost £100 to convert to hot water that will produce 70 degrees and strip it off in seconds. 

That sounds a good idea , think its looking more for a van system , and maybe a backpack for the backs of some awkward ones . Is there any difference in r/o systems . 

 

[High-tower]

Dodging frosted Windows missing frames and leaving smears is the work of cowboys.
 

That’s the point I’m making, you can do a  **** job with either if you are a cowboy. Wfp makes it so much easier to do a proper job though, so there’s no excuse.