New to the business

[spruce]

Looks great that thanks for the photo. I was thinking of building a shed at the back of the garden but by the time I get a hose from there to the front where the van is it's probably over 100meters (may of stole some council land when we got a new fence lol). So my next option is to make a little one on the back of the house which luckily on the kitchen wall is some plug sockets. So can make an outside plug beforehand and get it all done and try not make it look ugly ?.

Will save me a lot of money with the big school i just got, the spotless water really eats away at the profit quite a lot.

Who'd of thought there's so many things to learn with window cleaning!

You are just doing things quicker than I did. There were only 2 of us in the area using wfp when we started, and our knowledge was limited. We didn't have forums back then and basically knew nothing. Everything we learnt was by trail and error.

I initially had a 225 gpd r/o which I used to fill my tanks on a trailer (3 x 150 litre tanks linked together.)
I processed this water overnight. The r/o was outside at the back tap and run all night in temperatures below freezing. The r/o never froze, as 'warm' water circulated through it all night. When the trailer tanks were full in the morning, I uncoupled the r/o and put it inside in the bath to keep it at inside room temperature. If any water leaked out of the r/o, it went own the drain.

It was about three years later that I processed water into an IBC tank in the garage using that same r/o upgraded to 450gpd by changing the membranes to 150gpd ones.

I winter, I had the r/o mounted on the wall in the garage with a towel over it as a tent with my mechanics lead light underneath with a 100w bulb in it. I used that lead light for the next 3 or 4 winters before I built that cabinet and assembled a 4040 inside it. That photo was taken about 11 years ago. Since then, I have added a water meter, so I know when to change my prefilters.

So all in all, we started as traditional window cleaners 20 years ago, converted to wfp after 3 years, and it then took another 6 years of slow progression before reaching the point of when those photos were taken.

ps. I purchased that lead light with 4 axle stands when I was 17 years old in Zimbabwe. They are still used today, some 54 years later. My lead light has been through a lot of bulbs though.

 

[ashley1337]

You are just doing things quicker than I did. There were only 2 of us in the area using wfp when we started, and our knowledge was limited. We didn't have forums back then and basically knew nothing. Everything we learnt was by trail and error.

I initially had a 225 gpd r/o which I used to fill my tanks on a trailer (3 x 150 litre tanks linked together.)
I processed this water overnight. The r/o was outside at the back tap and run all night in temperatures below freezing. The r/o never froze, as 'warm' water circulated through it all night. When the trailer tanks were full in the morning, I uncoupled the r/o and put it inside in the bath to keep it at inside room temperature. If any water leaked out of the r/o, it went own the drain.

It was about three years later that I processed water into an IBC tank in the garage using that same r/o upgraded to 450gpd by changing the membranes to 150gpd ones.

I winter, I had the r/o mounted on the wall in the garage with a towel over it as a tent with my mechanics lead light underneath with a 100w bulb in it. I used that lead light for the next 3 or 4 winters before I built that cabinet and assembled a 4040 inside it. That photo was taken about 11 years ago. Since then, I have added a water meter, so I know when to change my prefilters.

So all in all, we started as traditional window cleaners 20 years ago, converted to wfp after 3 years, and it then took another 6 years of slow progression before reaching the point of when those photos were taken.

ps. I purchased that lead light with 4 axle stands when I was 17 years old in Zimbabwe. They are still used today, some 54 years later. My lead light has been through a lot of bulbs though.

Wow haha! I don't know how everyone managed to figure it out to begin with. Without the forums I don't think I'd know anything near to what I do now.

I did think of going the easy route and having it all in the van and filling it over night, but I guarantee I'd forget one night and be without...

Seems to get a proper efficient set up costs a lot of money!

Howmuch will the RO/di cost to set up once I get a tank beforehand? Preferably the black one from the link.

 

[Iron Giant]

How much do you recon one of these 1000L tanks weighs with the frame (empty).

I'm looking at making my own atm as I currently use spotless and its costing a bomb... I live in a mid terrace and would need to pass it over 3 fences to get to my garden lol... Other option would be to hire a crane to come pop it over the house lol

I have one of these 500 Litre Slimline Potable Drinking Water Tank - WRAS Approved a bit more pricey but you could probably house it easier than a 1000ltr ibc along with an R/O

 

[ashley1337]

I have one of these 500 Litre Slimline Potable Drinking Water Tank - WRAS Approved a bit more pricey but you could probably house it easier than a 1000ltr ibc along with an R/O

Looks good, wouldn't need a crane to get it over the house either.

The neighbours said no... Unfortunately I'm in an awkward situation where my neighbours are the wife's ex husbands family ? I know...

And even after we've had new fences etc and have them our older shed and all sorts of stuff they don't want us lifting it over the fence encase I damage it... The fence I paid for and put up ?

I'm thinking though a 1000L would be better, just for the reason that I currently have a 325L tank on the van, and not often but a few days a month I run out on busy days. So when I upgrade the van, I'll be getting a bigger tank too, possibly 500.

Rather than filling it daily, I'd be able to go at least every other day without refiling the tank outside. Or do you generally fill it as soon as you use it and I'm just being lazy?

 

[spruce]

It cost money to get going. This is why you buy right to begin with as much as possible.

Most business ventures take months, even years, before they start to turn a profit. It takes a good few years before a window cleaning round becomes a viable round, as it takes time to find customers and then to weed out the messers.

We also had to deal with the public who knew nothing about deionized water. Yorkshire people aren't very trusting, so we had to go through lots of hops to convince them that they didn't have to pay us until they were happy with the clean quality. And their new window cleaners being foreign didn't help either.

 

[ashley1337]

It cost money to get going. This is why you buy right to begin with as much as possible.

Most business ventures take months, even years, before they start to turn a profit. It takes a good few years before a window cleaning round becomes a viable round, as it takes time to find customers and then to weed out the messers.

We also had to deal with the public who knew nothing about deionized water. Yorkshire people aren't very trusting, so we had to go through lots of hops to convince them that they didn't have to pay us until they were happy with the clean quality. And their new window cleaners being foreign didn't help either.

I was quote fortunate that every penny I spent to begin with buying the van and equipment etc, I saved it all up and put it back in the savings whilst I had my other job. And although I've managed to build up my round pretty fast, I can definitely see it's going to take years for it to be a good one. Although most are great customers (or seem it) I've definitely got some undesirables...

Especially the ones that like to come stand and watch even in the rain and point to go over things again...

I'm even getting a couple of messages a week for gutter clearing now and I don't advertise for it and don't even do it! Seems as well as making my own water, a gutter vac needs to be invested in ASAP too.

 

[Chris34]

I was quote fortunate that every penny I spent to begin with buying the van and equipment etc, I saved it all up and put it back in the savings whilst I had my other job. And although I've managed to build up my round pretty fast, I can definitely see it's going to take years for it to be a good one. Although most are great customers (or seem it) I've definitely got some undesirables...

Especially the ones that like to come stand and watch even in the rain and point to go over things again...

I'm even getting a couple of messages a week for gutter clearing now and I don't advertise for it and don't even do it! Seems as well as making my own water, a gutter vac needs to be invested in ASAP too.

Yeah I'd definitely recommend getting a gutter vac asap. It keeps the money coming in during winter when a lot of the cleaning add on work dries up. The gutter vac is in demand all year round but in particular when it's a period of wet weather like we're currently having now.

Also, your RO, don't over complicate things, it's pretty simple stuff. You don't need to spend a lot of money. I've got a 450gpd one and in 3 hours I've produced nearly 200 litres, it's more than ample for you're average one man operation. That's straight from the tap as well, no boost pump.

You'll definitely save yourself a lot of money. You'd be looking at saving about £12 per day on water, plus depending on how far your spotless site is from you, well you'd be saving money on fuel. Don't forget that fuel with a van full of water disappears far faster than an empty van, so it's not just the travel to the spotless costing you, it's the journey back with a van load of water.

Don't hold back, get it all done now while we are in warm weather, it's 10 times harder in the winter with short days and the cold to deal with. If you get it sorted now then you'll be well prepared for the winter.

 

[Iron Giant]

Looks good, wouldn't need a crane to get it over the house either.

The neighbours said no... Unfortunately I'm in an awkward situation where my neighbours are the wife's ex husbands family ? I know...

And even after we've had new fences etc and have them our older shed and all sorts of stuff they don't want us lifting it over the fence encase I damage it... The fence I paid for and put up ?

I'm thinking though a 1000L would be better, just for the reason that I currently have a 325L tank on the van, and not often but a few days a month I run out on busy days. So when I upgrade the van, I'll be getting a bigger tank too, possibly 500.

Rather than filling it daily, I'd be able to go at least every other day without refiling the tank outside. Or do you generally fill it as soon as you use it and I'm just being lazy?

I have a 350ltr tank in my van, I produce pure every night after work and transfer it to the van in the morning, my tap water tds is around 75ppm I ain't checked it for a few months now as I just have an inline meter these days on my 450gpd R/O this takes 10hrs+ to produce 400ltrs+ but currently for me, water pressure is down a bit and lots of sediment in the water I am going through 3 sediment filters a week which might be slowing production.

 

[ashley1337]

Yeah I'd definitely recommend getting a gutter vac asap. It keeps the money coming in during winter when a lot of the cleaning add on work dries up. The gutter vac is in demand all year round but in particular when it's a period of wet weather like we're currently having now.

Also, your RO, don't over complicate things, it's pretty simple stuff. You don't need to spend a lot of money. I've got a 450gpd one and in 3 hours I've produced nearly 200 litres, it's more than ample for you're average one man operation. That's straight from the tap as well, no boost pump.

You'll definitely save yourself a lot of money. You'd be looking at saving about £12 per day on water, plus depending on how far your spotless site is from you, well you'd be saving money on fuel. Don't forget that fuel with a van full of water disappears far faster than an empty van, so it's not just the travel to the spotless costing you, it's the journey back with a van load of water.

Don't hold back, get it all done now while we are in warm weather, it's 10 times harder in the winter with short days and the cold to deal with. If you get it sorted now then you'll be well prepared for the winter.

Would you recommend buying new? I've seen some for sale here and there but there's always something wrong with it. Always this has broke but easy fix blah blah got a new one so don't need anymore. But I don't want to be fixing something that's probably unfixable and causing myself massive hassle lol.

The spotless station is about 20 houses down the street, but a full tank of 325 costs like £15!
I did explain to my wife that it's way more cost efficient to make my own water but I do understand after spending so much starting up she doesn't want me to just constantly pump money in, especially when she wants the loft converted ?.

 

[ashley1337]

I have a 350ltr tank in my van, I produce pure every night after work and transfer it to the van in the morning, my tap water tds is around 75ppm I ain't checked it for a few months now as I just have an inline meter these days on my 450gpd R/O this takes 10hrs+ to produce 400ltrs+ but currently for me, water pressure is down a bit and lots of sediment in the water I am going through 3 sediment filters a week which might be slowing production.

Mines currently at around 350...
Step number 1 will be getting a water pressure gage I suppose and go from there?
I think getting the500L tank you recommended might be the best option for me.
I sometimes look too far into the future for at something that may never happen lol.

 

[Iron Giant]

Mines currently at around 350...
Step number 1 will be getting a water pressure gage I suppose and go from there?
I think getting the500L tank you recommended might be the best option for me.
I sometimes look too far into the future for at something that may never happen lol.

With a tap tds of 350ppm you'd be best investing in a 40/40 R/O which may need a booster pump depending on your water pressure a 40/40 can produce so much faster than a smaller R/O like mine so even if you had a busy day booked in you could fill your tank again potentially within a few hours.

A 100ltr ibc people usually buy an ibc because 2nd hand ones can sell for less than £100 on eBay yes they are cheaper but if you don't one and don't have the space to accommodate one then no point in buying one, my tank is in my garage/glorified shed and I don't have lots of available space so this was the best option for me

 

[spruce]

@ashley1337 My question is; how are you going to transfer water from your tank around neighbouring properties to your parked up van?

I appreciate that we started with an r/o because we had no other means of getting purified water, but you have the Spotless water facility near you. I understand that you have to control your spending, but personally, I would focus on establishing myself before spending big money on equipment.
By adding an extra pound or two to each quote, you should cover your daily water bill.

I hate gutter clearing, I always have. We use a small single motor gutter vac which works quite well. We empty the contents from the gutters into our customer's garden. When we get home, I am left with cleaning the vac out along with all the pipes and the flexible hose. It takes around 40 minutes. I leave the drum and the motor apart to let them totally dry out, along with the reusable foam filter. It takes a few days before everything has dried out before I can reassemble everything. I'm meticulous about this.

Honestly, if I could drop gutter clearing altogether, I would. I don't offer it as a service any longer. There are a few guys advertising gutter clearance and they are welcome to it.

 

[spruce]

I have a 350ltr tank in my van, I produce pure every night after work and transfer it to the van in the morning, my tap water tds is around 75ppm I ain't checked it for a few months now as I just have an inline meter these days on my 450gpd R/O this takes 10hrs+ to produce 400ltrs+ but currently for me, water pressure is down a bit and lots of sediment in the water I am going through 3 sediment filters a week which might be slowing production.

This sediment can be a real issue. I have a pressure gauge on each side of my prefilters. The first measures tap water pressure and the second measures the water pressure leaving the prefilters. Our water pressure is 50psi at the moment. Once the water pressure drops to 40psi after the prefilters, it's time to replace the sediment filter.

Our water quality has been a bit better recently, but it wasn't that long ago when I replaced 2 sediment filters and then both when the carbon block filter was due to be replaced.

 

[Chris34]

Would you recommend buying new? I've seen some for sale here and there but there's always something wrong with it. Always this has broke but easy fix blah blah got a new one so don't need anymore. But I don't want to be fixing something that's probably unfixable and causing myself massive hassle lol.

The spotless station is about 20 houses down the street, but a full tank of 325 costs like £15!
I did explain to my wife that it's way more cost efficient to make my own water but I do understand after spending so much starting up she doesn't want me to just constantly pump money in, especially when she wants the loft converted ?.

Personally, given how reasonably priced they are, I'd buy new. I'm like Spruce, I don't like doing them but I also don't like doing fascias and soffits but it's for the money, at times when you're a bit quiet it can really be a welcomed boost.

The RO is an investment, everyday you're using Spotless you're wasting money. Spotless is great, it's a great service, but if you want a profitable business you have to keep costs as low as possible and having an RO is a big part of that.

It's understandable what your missus thinks but maybe explain that it's costing £12 more than it needs to be each time you leave the house for work, so you're minus £12 when you leave the house each day. With an RO it's probably more like minus £2 (all figures tax adjusted)

 

[ched999uk]

I think @doug atkinson has been testing a 500gpd ro that might work for you?
Just make sure your wife understands that your water bill will go up!
It might be worth you doing the maths say on 12 months with an ro and 12 months costs from spotless. Don't forget resin, water and sewerage costs.

 

[ashley1337]

@ashley1337 My question is; how are you going to transfer water from your tank around neighbouring properties to your parked up van?

I appreciate that we started with an r/o because we had no other means of getting purified water, but you have the Spotless water facility near you. I understand that you have to control your spending, but personally, I would focus on establishing myself before spending big money on equipment.
By adding an extra pound or two to each quote, you should cover your daily water bill.

I hate gutter clearing, I always have. We use a small single motor gutter vac which works quite well. We empty the contents from the gutters into our customer's garden. When we get home, I am left with cleaning the vac out along with all the pipes and the flexible hose. It takes around 40 minutes. I leave the drum and the motor apart to let them totally dry out, along with the reusable foam filter. It takes a few days before everything has dried out before I can reassemble everything. I'm meticulous about this.

Honestly, if I could drop gutter clearing altogether, I would. I don't offer it as a service any longer. There are a few guys advertising gutter clearance and they are welcome to it.

I'm a mid terrace, I do have a ginnel down the middle of the houses, but it's not big. I can easily get a smaller thin tank down (the 500L one I was sent would be perfect) so I can run a hose to the front of the house no problem.

I do understand this, but looking at some set up, I'll assume it'll cost £1000 to start making my own water?

It's probably going to cost me upwards of £3000 a year to go to spotless, and more as I get busier. My small 325L tank costs like £15 to fill, which adds up quickly. Fortunately I'm not an expensive man, I don't drink or smoke and I hate holidays lol (I like a short city break here and there) so I manage to save a lot, I'm just thinking for overall savings it would make sense to get it now whilst I have some spare money.

Also the next closest one is 30 minutes away, so assuming that one day the spotless station breaks down, needs repairing etc and it's out of action for multiple days or even worse case a week+, I'll have no worries when I can produce my own. Where as if for any reason I can't make my own as there's a fault, I've got the spotless station as a backup ready to go.

I've never even thought of all that for the gutter clearing, maybe it's best to stay away and concentrate on the windows for now.

 

[Chris34]

The water costs shouldn't be a factor, it's virtually free in comparison to using Spotless. To give you an idea, my water costs are currently just under £2 per 1,000 litres of water, the waste water is £1.33 per 1000 litres. So roughly speaking 1,000 litres of water will be £3.30. So if you're using 330 litres per day it's going to cost £1.10 on your water bill per day.

That's my water charges, but I'd expect most others to be similar. The cost of water is so small it's not even worth considering. It's about 0.3% of my costs.

The main issue is the quality of the water and the cost to get it clean. Mine is around 140ppm, it used to be about 60ppm but they switched sources last year in the drought and it's remained the same ever since. But even so, I just use two 700ml resin containers and change one roughly every month. 25 litres of resin costs £112 so 700ml per month is costing me £3.13 per month. So my resin costs are about 75p per week.

You do have the membrane costs but they last a lot longer. Maybe add £2 for membrane costs per week.

You can see though, it's very cheap in comparison even with poor water quality it should work out a lot lot cheaper.

 

[Iron Giant]

This sediment can be a real issue. I have a pressure gauge on each side of my prefilters. The first measures tap water pressure and the second measures the water pressure leaving the prefilters. Our water pressure is 50psi at the moment. Once the water pressure drops to 40psi after the prefilters, it's time to replace the sediment filter.

Our water quality has been a bit better recently, but it wasn't that long ago when I replaced 2 sediment filters and then both when the carbon block filter was due to be replaced.

I have a clear pre-filter housings so I change them once they go brown, I am on my third since last Tuesday and will have to change again today or tomorrow

 

[ashley1337]

Lucky I fill up on a evening rather than the morning! Exactly why I need to make my own haha

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Lucky I fill up on a evening rather than the morning! Exactly why I need to make my own haha
View attachment 28891

You don't need a big fancy RO, just a small mobile one. It will be your best investment you have made.

 

[ashley1337]

You don't need a big fancy RO, just a small mobile one. It will be your best investment you have made.

Came across this last night doing a bit of research, looks perfect?