New traditional window cleaner

[Mr Klear]

Hello all , first of I’d like to thank all the pros on this forum for sharing valuable information, just seeving through threads I have pretty much caught most of my quarries I had, a great community hub, so hats off to WCF

Over the last two years I have contemplated on starting a window cleaning round for myself finally I’m taking the leap, total newbie, I have been researching the pros cons according to my needs and ability to make things efficient as possible giving my circumstances, but I have no hands on experience as of yet ( would love to get some work experience working under a traditional window cleaner working residential )

I would like to go the traditional route due to many factors finance, craftsmanship and logistics being few of the main issues.

Starting with a 18 lt unger bucket kit and a few different size squeege ( which Iv drummed up the courage and ordered )
Still looking at telescopic poles to eliminate the need for ladders, just worried if it will be possible to do good enough job including detailing with a robust set of poles up to first floor?

Once I have all the bare essentials I will practice on my own house which is a 3 bed semi detached

I don’t have a van but I’m mobile I have a saloon car, I’m from the east end, live and work between Essex and central london doing delivery work and Uber which gets me to meet people day to day at home addresses which I’m looking to use to my advantage to canvass and distribute leaflets to get potential customers besides the usual door to door canvassing i will be dedicating some time to.

Any and all advice to a newbie just starting up would be much appreciated.

 

[Pjj]

Hello all , first of I’d like to thank all the pros on this forum for sharing valuable information, just seeving through threads I have pretty much caught most of my quarries I had, a great community hub, so hats off to WCF

Over the last two years I have contemplated on starting a window cleaning round for myself finally I’m taking the leap, total newbie, I have been researching the pros cons according to my needs and ability to make things efficient as possible giving my circumstances, but I have no hands on experience as of yet ( would love to get some work experience working under a traditional window cleaner working residential )

I would like to go the traditional route due to many factors finance, craftsmanship and logistics being few of the main issues.

Starting with a 18 lt unger bucket kit and a few different size squeege ( which Iv drummed up the courage and ordered )
Still looking at telescopic poles to eliminate the need for ladders, just worried if it will be possible to do good enough job including detailing with a robust set of poles up to first floor?

Once I have all the bare essentials I will practice on my own house which is a 3 bed semi detached

I don’t have a van but I’m mobile I have a saloon car, I’m from the east end, live and work between Essex and central london doing delivery work and Uber which gets me to meet people day to day at home addresses which I’m looking to use to my advantage to canvass and distribute leaflets to get potential customers besides the usual door to door canvassing i will be dedicating some time to.

Any and all advice to a newbie just starting up would be much appreciated.

Well done for taking the leap of faith with determination ime sure you will do fine , trad is the cheapest way to start but trading upstairs windows you will struggle to get good results , with so many WFP out there now think you will be at a disadvantage as a poor WFP will probably get better results than you . WFP does cost more initially to set up but once the first clean is done is much quicker , dies a better job with the frames and is the way ahead , you wouldn’t find motorists now looking to by a model T ford , trad does have its place but not for regular day in day out domestic cleaning , shop fronts etc yes it’s fine , also think of the safety aspect . Let us know how you get on .

 

[ched999uk]

Seriously consider getting a 'backpack' (don't put it on your back use a trolley), trolley, a clx22 pole and some barrels (maybe free from local car wash) then you can buy pure water from Spotless and away you go. Admittedly it will cost you more than a squeegee but it will be mush quicker (after you get used to it) do a better job than a trad pole on upstairs windows (as wfp can do frames and sills).
I started in a car with barrels (hatchback. 6, 4 in boot and 2 behind drivers seat - all strapped in), it wasn't quick but I didn't have any customers at the beginning so it didn't matter.
Once I gained customers and found I liked the work I bought a van.

 

[Bell Pallisey]

buy the ladder now -or borrow it .I started off with a B&Q 7 rung triple ladder this went Inside my car ,passenger seat removed . Stay with the ladders is my tip carve your niche . Im still on ladders 15yrs in [with employees] and enjoy the climbing if im honest . Good luck,well you wont need luck if you get that ladder asap

 

[Pjj]

buy the ladder now -or borrow it .I started off with a B&Q 7 rung triple ladder this went Inside my car ,passenger seat removed . Stay with the ladders is my tip carve your niche . Im still on ladders 15yrs in [with employees] and enjoy the climbing if im honest . Good luck,well you wont need luck if you get that ladder asap

Employing doing window cleaning using ladders , who are you insured with ?

 

[ched999uk]

buy the ladder now -or borrow it .I started off with a B&Q 7 rung triple ladder this went Inside my car ,passenger seat removed . Stay with the ladders is my tip carve your niche . Im still on ladders 15yrs in [with employees] and enjoy the climbing if im honest . Good luck,well you wont need luck if you get that ladder asap

I'm surprised you are sending employees up ladders to clean windows. Our local council (Blackpool) stopped all the window cleaners working off ladders about 10 years ago. They used to have 'inspectors' that would come round and tell anyone not complying that they would be fined - not sure how that worked but Blackpool Council do try and issue fines for stuff they have no legal authority to do. They banned smoking in all parks, signs up saying £200 fine - but it's not actually enforceable!
I have a feeling they used to use the traffic wardens as spies to report back any windys working off ladders. This was mainly in the tourist areas and 3 story Victorian properties so quite tall for ladder work.

Do you find it difficult to get employers liability insurance or do you just have to send each member of staff on a ladder safety course?

 

[Pjj]

I'm surprised you are sending employees up ladders to clean windows. Our local council (Blackpool) stopped all the window cleaners working off ladders about 10 years ago. They used to have 'inspectors' that would come round and tell anyone not complying that they would be fined - not sure how that worked but Blackpool Council do try and issue fines for stuff they have no legal authority to do. They banned smoking in all parks, signs up saying £200 fine - but it's not actually enforceable!
I have a feeling they used to use the traffic wardens as spies to report back any windys working off ladders. This was mainly in the tourist areas and 3 story Victorian properties so quite tall for ladder work.

Do you find it difficult to get employers liability insurance or do you just have to send each member of staff on a ladder safety course?

You still cannot have staff going down the road cleaning all windows using ladders only ,regardless of training , you can’t get insurance for this anymore, the only ones that still do this down here are the cowboys who appear each spring , so far this year there are none as WFP is quicker better ones won’t accept trad standards any more . Just want to add ime not slagging of trad cleaners that’s how I started for 7 years but times have changed and things have moved forward with window cleaning just as they have with all industries .

 

[Bell Pallisey]

I'm surprised you are sending employees up ladders to clean windows. Our local council (Blackpool) stopped all the window cleaners working off ladders about 10 years ago. They used to have 'inspectors' that would come round and tell anyone not complying that they would be fined - not sure how that worked but Blackpool Council do try and issue fines for stuff they have no legal authority to do. They banned smoking in all parks, signs up saying £200 fine - but it's not actually enforceable!
I have a feeling they used to use the traffic wardens as spies to report back any windys working off ladders. This was mainly in the tourist areas and 3 story Victorian properties so quite tall for ladder work.

Do you find it difficult to get employers liability insurance or do you just have to send each member of staff on a ladder safety course?

Always had employee liab insurance and never had any probs getting it.Actually i remember one year at renewal time an insurance bod asked me are you on ladders or water pole ?i said ladders he said good as there were a lot of injury claims ongoing from employees in the water pole side . At one stage i had half a dozen fultimers employees but downsized about 4 yrs ago as iv a seperate biz i had to devote time too . We were doing 3 storey but when i downsized to 2 the 3 storey side went at that time . Standard insurance cover for trad is for 10 metres on ladders but only 3 metres for a cherry picker! strange anomaly iv not ever used one

 

[Bell Pallisey]

You still cannot have staff going down the road cleaning all windows using ladders only ,regardless of training , you can’t get insurance for this anymore, the only ones that still do this down here are the cowboys who appear each spring , so far this year there are none as WFP is quicker better ones won’t accept trad standards any more . Just want to add ime not slagging of trad cleaners that’s how I started for 7 years but times have changed and things have moved forward with window cleaning just as they have with all industries .

you are wrong there,i know you CAN get insurance for employees as iv just renewed mine . Had it for at least 13 yrs with no breaks , several different insurance companys too so there youv been misinformed pjj

 

[WindyinNorfolk]

Why cant people have staff using ladders ? - please post a link showing me where I cant have an employee using a ladder - Thankyou

 

[Pjj]

you are wrong there,i know you CAN get insurance for employees as iv just renewed mine . Had it for at least 13 yrs with no breaks , several different insurance companys too so there youv been misinformed pjj

I couldn’t get insurance they cancelled mine for full time window cleaning back in 2008 I think it was , I could get insurance for use of ladders for access only and they stated a % of amount of work done can’t remember what it was . I went WFP in 2003 for some of my work but still had guys on ladders and that was when I bit the bullet and got a second van mount system, we still use ladders for access on a few jobs and occasionally for gutter work but that’s it now .

 

[Pjj]

Why cant people have staff using ladders ? - please post a link showing me where I cant have an employee using a ladder - Thankyou

Look it up yourself on the HSE website it’s quite clear

 

[Part Timer]

Why cant people have staff using ladders ? - please post a link showing me where I cant have an employee using a ladder - Thankyou

If you go on the HSE it clearly states ladders should only be used if there isn't an alternative cost effective method.

 

[Bell Pallisey]

I couldn’t get insurance they cancelled mine for full time window cleaning back in 2008 I think it was , I could get insurance for use of ladders for access only and they stated a % of amount of work done can’t remember what it was . I went WFP in 2003 for some of my work but still had guys on ladders and that was when I bit the bullet and got a second van mount system, we still use ladders for access on a few jobs and occasionally for gutter work but that’s it now .

about 5yrs ago i got an extension to my window cleaning insurance for gutter cleaning and then a year or so later another seperate extension for repairs .This last extension was essential cos once you put up a gutter bracket you just might be liable if ever a slate came off a roof or damp on a wall praps! At renewal this year i was going to drop all commercial work and wanted to know if id save any money if i did but no way they would not do it and so iv got commercial work included just for 1 shop i do twice a year more as a favour

 

[Scrubsy]

Starting with a 18 lt unger bucket kit and a few different size squeege ( which Iv drummed up the courage and ordered )
Still looking at telescopic poles to eliminate the need for ladders, just worried if it will be possible to do good enough job including detailing with a robust set of poles up to first floor?

Once I have all the bare essentials I will practice on my own house which is a 3 bed semi detached

@Mr Klear I started like this mate. I am actually ok at cleaning windows on first floor with a pole and squeegee, but it's very awkward and you can never get the frames very clean. If you are able to the order yourself a backpack and a composite pole (like a Gardiner CLX) I used to clean the tops with a water fed pole and the bottoms with a squeegee - loads of people start like that. That way you don't need to carry lots of pure water when you are out and about. Even now if I have a low level bungalow I use a squeegee all round and I clean doors and patio doors with a squeegee too. You can buy water from your local spotless dispensing station very easily and then just upgrade your equipment when you have a bit of earnings saved up. Best of luck with it buddy, you'll be fine.

 

[ched999uk]

Why cant people have staff using ladders ? - please post a link showing me where I cant have an employee using a ladder - Thankyou

You can use ladders if there isn't an alternative or for access. Have you seen the lengths the Sky engineers have to go to now? They have to drill the customers walls to secure the ladder to, fall arrestors etc but they do work from ladders!

https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/safetytopics/assess.htm - it's about construction but they don't have a window cleaning section.
States "Try avoiding work at height, if you can. You must otherwise prevent or arrest a fall and injury if work at height is necessary."
In my opinion, you can avoid working at height most of the time with wfp. OK so if you can't then you must prevent or arrest a fall or injury - how do you prove that you prevented an injury if someone is hurt?

H&S is open to interpretation but if an employee is hurt the onus will be on the employer to prove they complied with everything. Bottom line is if someone is hurt you will be in trouble and being a ltd doesn't absolve you of financial penalties or a prison sentence!

If I where you I would consult a properly qualifies H&S expert to write your risk assessments and method statements to try and cover your back. You will still need daily ladder inspections and to have your staff ladder trained.

 

[Mr Klear]

@Mr Klear I started like this mate. I am actually ok at cleaning windows on first floor with a pole and squeegee, but it's very awkward and you can never get the frames very clean. If you are able to the order yourself a backpack and a composite pole (like a Gardiner CLX) I used to clean the tops with a water fed pole and the bottoms with a squeegee - loads of people start like that. That way you don't need to carry lots of pure water when you are out and about. Even now if I have a low level bungalow I use a squeegee all round and I clean doors and patio doors with a squeegee too. You can buy water from your local spotless dispensing station very easily and then just upgrade your equipment when you have a bit of earnings saved up. Best of luck with it buddy, you'll be fine.

@Mr Klear I started like this mate. I am actually ok at cleaning windows on first floor with a pole and squeegee, but it's very awkward and you can never get the frames very clean. If you are able to the order yourself a backpack and a composite pole (like a Gardiner CLX) I used to clean the tops with a water fed pole and the bottoms with a squeegee - loads of people start like that. That way you don't need to carry lots of pure water when you are out and about. Even now if I have a low level bungalow I use a squeegee all round and I clean doors and patio doors with a squeegee too. You can buy water from your local spotless dispensing station very easily and then just upgrade your equipment when you have a bit of earnings saved up. Best of luck with it buddy, you'll be fine.

Thanks dude, I was hoping to start off with just bucket poles + squeegees before getting that little car set up for backpack once I get confident and more work flows in, however i don’t want to step into something and not be able to provide an adequate service. I’m happy to take time to do the upstairs with traditional poles if it is possible.

If not I might have to start with ground floor bungalows and commercials till I get a set up to do a proper upstairs job.

 

[Mr Klear]

So I take it nobody does traditional clean with just poles + squeegees? It’s either ladders or WFP?

I was hoping to eliminate the hazard and need for ladders and water tanks and water feed cables without compromising the quality of the work

 

[Scrubsy]

So I take it nobody does traditional clean with just poles + squeegees? It’s either ladders or WFP?

I was hoping to eliminate the hazard and need for ladders and water tanks and water feed cables without compromising the quality of the work

@Mr Klear the only person I'm aware of that uses traditional poles at height frequently is the Trad-Man guy on youtube. Even then he does more wfp work now I think. You could give it a try but it takes a serious amount of practice. I still use a backpack and have water containers. No trailing hose reels or anything as it's just pole hose. It doesn't need to cost a fortune or be over complicated or anything like that. You'd be able to work out of your car without too many issues at all. If you are going to buy a traditional pole I'd recommend the unger aluminium ones (optiloc). I changed to an Ettore pro one and it's far too heavy and cumbersome in comparison (I do a couple of high level internals).

 

[Pjj]

So I take it nobody does traditional clean with just poles + squeegees? It’s either ladders or WFP?

I was hoping to eliminate the hazard and need for ladders and water tanks and water feed cables without compromising the quality of the work

You can do upstairs windows with a pole and applicator I used to but it takes a long time to master the skill and not get runs from the top frame

 

[Peter J]

So I take it nobody does traditional clean with just poles + squeegees? It’s either ladders or WFP?

I was hoping to eliminate the hazard and need for ladders and water tanks and water feed cables without compromising the quality of the work

You’re going to have to compromise the work. Squeegeeing windows on a pole is not easy. If you come across a really bad green and black frame (and there’ll be a fair few when starting your round) it’s almost impossible to clean it with a washer on a pole.

I do mainly WFP but I’ve one or two a week trad.

Bungalows can be hard to get as they’re so easy for the crusty to clean themselves. You will get a few but I’ve found it hard to get a street of them.

You definitely seem to have the right attitude for starting up but try and get a backpack and brush as soon as you can. Even if you just use it for the frames and squeegee off the glass you’ll soon see the benefits of having it.

You say you’ve already ordered some kit. Excellent work! Get practicing and you’ll discover what else you need and you can save up for bits here and there and build it slowly.