Pump isn't sucking water

[Marko067]

If the the pump is in good order it should be more than capable of priming itself without having to suck on it. I run 8-10 barrels completely dry every day and never have a problem with a pump priming itself, usually within 2 seconds, no exageration. Mind you my barrel hose is quite short as it's on a trolley. If its a bit longer like yours looks it might take a little longer

When priming the pump, always disconnect the output hose at the reel so there is no back-pressure on the pump. Otherwise the pump will not generate enough suction to lift the water out of the barrel.

If you are using an inline strainer, check that it's not blocked. If it is, clean it.

Check that no air is getting in at the connections in the hose on the barrel side of your pump. If it is, tighten the connections.

Also check that the barrel hose is not split somewhere, letting air in.

If you are still getting nothing then disconnect the hose at the input side of the pump and run it flat out. You should be able to feel the suction with your finger over the hosetail on the pump. If you can't and there is no obstruction to the flow on the output side of the pump, then it looks like your pump may be in need of attention.

I did notice from your picture that you appear to be using quite a large bore barrel hose (13mm maybe). One thing I found improved my priming (clearing airlocks) time no end was switching this hose to a smaller bore hose, minibore (8mm ID) for instance. The larger the internal volume of the hose the more difficulty your pump will have in picking up the water.

Hope this helps

 

[slippy]

If the the pump is in good order it should be more than capable of priming itself without having to suck on it. I run 8-10 barrels completely dry every day and never have a problem with a pump priming itself, usually within 2 seconds, no exageration. Mind you my barrel hose is quite short as it's on a trolley. If its a bit longer like yours looks it might take a little longer

When priming the pump, always disconnect the output hose at the reel so there is no back-pressure on the pump. Otherwise the pump will not generate enough suction to lift the water out of the barrel.

If you are using an inline strainer, check that it's not blocked. If it is clean it.

Check that no air is getting in at the connections in the hose on the barrel side of your pump. If it is tighten the connections.

Also check that the barrel hose is not split somewhere, letting air in.

If you are still getting nothing then disconnect the hose at the input side of the pump and run it flat out. You should be able to feel the suction with your finger over the hosetail on the pump. If you can't and there is no obstruction to the flow on the output side of the pump then it looks like your pump may be in need of attention.

I did notice from your picture that you appear to be using quite a large bore barrel hose (13mm maybe). One thing I found improved my priming (clearing airlocks) time no end was switching this hose to a smaller bore hose, minibore (8mm ID) for instance. The larger the internal volume of the hose the more difficulty your pump will have in picking up the water.

Hope this helps

Great advice.  Yeah that hose is super fat.  I will get some mini bore (I use microbore on my reel). U reckon use mini bore running from barrels to pump and also mini bore from outlet of pump to reel as well?  Won't mini bore be too narrow to fit on the pump connector things? 

 Will do what u said with testing pump as well.  Where's the best place to get a shurflo pump- daqua?  It would only be a case of changing pump, wouldn't it? Not the controller etc (  my diy pump box is in pix) 

  My trolley went down as well today so ended up tradding, nightmare lol

 

[Marko067]

If you do need a new pump (which I doubt but can't rule out) I would stick to one of the reputable dealers as there are some knock offs about which by all accounts are not that good

If you fit minibore (8mm ID) hose then you will need these from Pure Freedom to fit on your Surflo pump on both sides

https://purefreedom.co.uk/product/plastic-1-2-female-thread-x-8mm-hose-swivel-elbow/

It's your choice but I would also remove the inline strainer and fit a strainer to the end of your barrel hose. One of these

https://purefreedom.co.uk/product/new-trolley-strainer-from-nov-2015/

In my experience inline strainers can sometimes get bubles in them which can also cause problems when priming a pump

 

[Dave B]

If the the pump is in good order it should be more than capable of priming itself without having to suck on it. I run 8-10 barrels completely dry every day and never have a problem with a pump priming itself, usually within 2 seconds, no exageration. Mind you my barrel hose is quite short as it's on a trolley. If its a bit longer like yours looks it might take a little longer

When priming the pump, always disconnect the output hose at the reel so there is no back-pressure on the pump. Otherwise the pump will not generate enough suction to lift the water out of the barrel.

If you are using an inline strainer, check that it's not blocked. If it is clean it.

Check that no air is getting in at the connections in the hose on the barrel side of your pump. If it is tighten the connections.

Also check that the barrel hose is not split somewhere, letting air in.

If you are still getting nothing then disconnect the hose at the input side of the pump and run it flat out. You should be able to feel the suction with your finger over the hosetail on the pump. If you can't and there is no obstruction to the flow on the output side of the pump then it looks like your pump may be in need of attention.

I did notice from your picture that you appear to be using quite a large bore barrel hose (13mm maybe). One thing I found improved my priming (clearing airlocks) time no end was switching this hose to a smaller bore hose, minibore (8mm ID) for instance. The larger the internal volume of the hose the more difficulty your pump will have in picking up the water.

Hope this helps

I'm using a purefreedom trolley at the moment instead of my diy one and that has 12mm id hose

I get no issues as where the hozelock connector is i only have 6" of pole hose them a jg pushfit and then the rest of my pole hose

That way if i run a barrel dry i disconnect the pushfit and turn pump on 99 for 2 seconds 

You see the flow change from bubbles and splutters to good flow then turn off the pump and connect back up

 

[Marko067]

I'm using a purefreedom trolley at the moment instead of my diy one and that has 12mm id hose

I get no issues as where the hozelock connector is i only have 6" of pole hose them a jg pushfit and then the rest of my pole hose

That way if i run a barrel dry i disconnect the pushfit and turn pump on 99 for 2 seconds 

You see the flow change from bubbles and splutters to good flow then turn off the pump and connect back up

Sounds like you have a very similar setup to me Dave. My original PF trolley (bought ten years ago) had half inch hose fitted. But I did occasionally have priming problems when I ran a barrel dry. They were greatly helped by cutting the pole hose as you describe and fitting a JG connector, and disconnecting at this point when priming.

However, the problems got worse again when I fitted an inline strainer due to the bubble problem described in my last post. So I removed it and ran without a strainer at all and it was much better.

Then when I bought my new trolley from PF two years ago I noticed it came with 8mm ID minibore hose fitted throughout and it was brilliant from the get go due to the fact that it doesn't have to fill the more than double internal volume of hose before it primes. In fact it often primes without me disconnecting at all

Slippy looks to have rather a long length of barrel hose which is why I suggested changing it to the smaller bore hose

 

[Dave B]

Mine is around 0 years old too and has the 1/2" hose

Not too bad though 

 

[Corps012588]

@Marko067

In my experience inline strainers can sometimes get bubles in them which can also cause problems when priming a pump

I use an inline strainer my strainer is never completely full of water. I am sure I'm not getting the same flow at the brush head as I was in the beginning. I used my system without a strainer for a few months when I first started but was shocked at how much **** ends up in the tank! .
So anyway. Rambling aside. Should these strainers actually be completely full of water?
I'll try and upload a picture of mine later today to show you what I mean

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[Corps012588]

Here's a pic of mine

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[Marko067]

That's the one I used but I had it mounted at 45° on the side of my trolley instead of vertical like yours.

Reading another thread recently I noticed that some fit the strainers as slippy has with the clear part facing down. This is probably the best way to fit them because bubles rise, so the clear part will fill first and then any bubbles will be drawn through and dispensed with quickly. I don't use one at the moment because I flush out my barrels fairly regularly.

I use fan jets and they do occasionally need clearing but this is because I use the tubeless setup and sometimes I pick up detritus from the floor when I drop the hose end on the floor by mistake. It's rare but it happens.

 

[Corps012588]

Thanks buddy. And did yours have the kind of empty space mine has? That's interesting with mounting it so the clear part is facing down.

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[slippy]

How often u need to clean these strainers?  Is it a case of putting finger in and scraping out gunk? 

 

[slippy]

Took it apart like someone said and couldn't get the two screws to stay in on one end when trying to put back so looks like it's going to be thrown out anyhow.   The hose wasn't blocked, it didn't pump (it was working)  when i, disconnected the output hose so maybe it was broken. Better get on phone to daqua tomorrow for a new one. 

 

[Dave B]

What you having problems with?

Putting the 2 spring loaded contacts back round the spindle while putting the end on?

If so it is easily done

I did it with a small screwdriver but I'm sure i have seen @spruce mention an easy way to do that in the past

I may be wrong though but i think it was him

 

[spruce]

Have to connected the pump the right way round? The strainer side should be on the inlet side. There are arrows on the pump head. You will never suck any water through the pump if its connected incorrectly.

That commutator on the armature looks brand new - it hasn't seen that much work.

To put the brushes back you need to push the brushes back into their holder and push a thin stiff piece of wire through to hold them in place. I used some the earth strand from a piece of household electric cable I had kicking about as its a single wire and not flexible. If memory serves me you just need it sticking out on one side and it goes through the slot on the motor casing. It was 12 years ago since I did it so memory is a little sketchy but now you know the idea you will figure it out. You do the same with the other side. Once the motor housing is back in position you pull the cable out so the brushes make contact with the commutator.

Someone once said that they used a couple of cable ties, but I don't know how that will work.

Please don't loose the hair spring inside the pump head assembly. Its tiny and easily lost. Oops.

 

[spruce]

How often u need to clean these strainers?  Is it a case of putting finger in and scraping out gunk? 

View attachment 12129

View attachment 12130

Under running water and a toothbrush

 

[slippy]

Have to connected the pump the right way round? The strainer side should be on the inlet side. There are arrows on the pump head. You will never suck any water through the pump if its connected incorrectly.

That commutator on the armature looks brand new - it hasn't seen that much work.

To put the brushes back you need to push the brushes back into their holder and push a thin stiff piece of wire through to hold them in place. I used some the earth strand from a piece of household electric cable I had kicking about as its a single wire and not flexible. If memory serves me you just need it sticking out on one side and it goes through the slot on the motor casing. It was 12 years ago since I did it so memory is a little sketchy but now you know the idea you will figure it out. You do the same with the other side. Once the motor housing is back in position you pull the cable out so the brushes make contact with the commutator.

Someone once said that they used a couple of cable ties, but I don't know how that will work.

Please don't loose the hair spring inside the pump head assembly. Its tiny and easily lost. Oops.

It must be round the right way as it was working for months but just stopped sucking.   

I will try and keep those springs in, they keep pinging out and my top photo isn't too clear.   I'll take it to maples if can't do it. 

 

[robin vos]

It must be round the right way as it was working for months but just stopped sucking.   
 
I will try and keep those springs in, they keep pinging out and my top photo isn't too clear.   I'll take it to maples if can't do it. 

It's not the top bit that I normally take off of the pump but the bottom bit.

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[Tuffers]

Poo bags @Beccy  :1f602:

 

[slippy]

Gonna order another pump anyhow.   No harm in having a spare.  Where would you go to get a pump repaired anyhow? 

 

[Corps012588]

@Marko067

I changed my strainer to how you said ( at 45 degrees) this morning and boy what a difference! I am absolutely amazed at the change. It's like it was before I fitted the strainer! Thanks for that bit of advice

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[slippy]

Got someone to put old pump back together and it works when u put the end with no hose on it into water but won't suck with hose on end.  Put new pump in and it works.  Put strainer on end of hose with no jubilee clip.  Left thick out let hose on until I get mini bore to hose lock converter. 

Hope it looks ok