Recruiting a window cleaner/subcontractor?

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

Hi everyone, looking for advice! I run a window cleaning business in Kent with 4 large rounds. One of our guys left suddenly due to personal issues, and we’re struggling to find a replacement.

We operate on a subcontracting basis:

• Operatives earn £30-£40k/year with no admin, risk, or major overheads—just cleaning (and no stress of dealing with .
• We provide vans, handle all admin, marketing, canvassing, customer contact, round planning, and payments. Subcontractors just cover fuel and insurance.

It’s a great opportunity for an experienced window cleaner, but we’re not getting any decent applicants despite advertising on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Indeed.

We’re looking for someone with:

• At least 1 year of recent experience
• A full driver’s license
• English-speaking
• Based locally (Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells/Sevenoaks area preferred).

Does anyone know someone interested or have tips on where to advertise? Thanks!

 

[johnny bravo]

can i re locate id be enticed if local. no pressures.

 

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

can i re locate id be enticed if local. no pressures.

We would be delighted if you did, Johnny, because nobody in Kent seems to want it!

 

[Part Timer]

Hi everyone, looking for advice! I run a window cleaning business in Kent with 4 large rounds. One of our guys left suddenly due to personal issues, and we’re struggling to find a replacement.

We operate on a subcontracting basis:

• Operatives earn £30-£40k/year with no admin, risk, or major overheads—just cleaning (and no stress of dealing with .
• We provide vans, handle all admin, marketing, canvassing, customer contact, round planning, and payments. Subcontractors just cover fuel and insurance.

It’s a great opportunity for an experienced window cleaner, but we’re not getting any decent applicants despite advertising on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Indeed.

We’re looking for someone with:

• At least 1 year of recent experience
• A full driver’s license
• English-speaking
• Based locally (Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells/Sevenoaks area preferred).

Does anyone know someone interested or have tips on where to advertise? Thanks!

I'd be very careful where you advertise, HMRC wouldn't look to kindly at your system. You would be classed as avoiding NI as you are actually, in the eyes of the law, employing not subcontracting.
To be a contractor you need to have at least your own tools and equipment

 

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

I'd be very careful where you advertise, HMRC wouldn't look to kindly at your system. You would be classed as avoiding NI as you are actually, in the eyes of the law, employing not subcontracting.
To be a contractor you need to have at least your own tools and equipment

Hi, thanks for the advice. They have their own poles/equipment and choose their own working days/hours etc. We just supply the branded van with the fit out. The accountant has this under control and assures us workers are outside IR35 (can send substitutes for the work and have costs like paying their own insurance and poles/brushes etc).

 

[Part Timer]

Hi, thanks for the advice. They have their own poles/equipment and choose their own working days/hours etc. We just supply the branded van with the fit out. The accountant has this under control and assures us workers are outside IR35 (can send substitutes for the work and have costs like paying their own insurance and poles/brushes etc).

Glad you've taken professional advice, is franchising an option?
We do a job in your neck of the woods, Princess Mary Ave in Chatham.

 

[P4dstar]

Hi, thanks for the advice. They have their own poles/equipment and choose their own working days/hours etc. We just supply the branded van with the fit out. The accountant has this under control and assures us workers are outside IR35 (can send substitutes for the work and have costs like paying their own insurance and poles/brushes etc).

What you posted in the first comment is different to this though. They’re either provided everything or they aren’t. If you’re selling this as per the first comment it would lead HMRC to suggest they need to look a little further. Poles are extremely expensive. I’ve got a couple of grands worth in the back of my own van. Once you tell an employee they need to supply their own tools 30k isn’t quite as inviting, particularly in the London area. You say no major overheads but poles are costly.

I do understand the want to take on a subby and avoid employing. I completely appreciate you aren’t going to suddenly go “you got me, I was on the fiddle”. The truth is these types of posts where people are trying to stay one side of a very thin line to avoid employing someone all scream the same thing. The big black and white question to ask yourself is do these chaps get any work elsewhere and what would you do if they suddenly said they were doing a day for me and not coming in for you. 99% of the time I know what people who employ subbys would say.

FWIW if you want to employ a good standard of person treat them with the respect they deserve. Offer them a proper PAYE job and perhaps keep the subby option for people who genuinely prefer it too. Stop making them buy expensive poles and brushes… although I expect this was a red herring anyways. No one on here knows you, we’re not off reporting you to HMRC so you can do what you like at the end of it. You know the truth of your own business and why or how you’re employing subbys. If you want an easier path to solid recruitment you might have to decide to make a change.

 

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

Glad you've taken professional advice, is franchising an option?
We do a job in your neck of the woods, Princess Mary Ave in Chatham.

It is and we are planning on it (but we want to do it differently in a truly win-win way) so the structure isn't completely sorted yet. One of the guys left suddenly due to personal problems and we have a round that needs someone NOW so no time to implement a new model.

 

[Iron Giant]

Hi, thanks for the advice. They have their own poles/equipment and choose their own working days/hours etc. We just supply the branded van with the fit out. The accountant has this under control and assures us workers are outside IR35 (can send substitutes for the work and have costs like paying their own insurance and poles/brushes etc).

This ain't sub contracting as I know, if your accountant is encouraging to tread a fine line I'd be cautious.

 

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

What you posted in the first comment is different to this though. They’re either provided everything or they aren’t. If you’re selling this as per the first comment it would lead HMRC to suggest they need to look a little further. Poles are extremely expensive. I’ve got a couple of grands worth in the back of my own van. Once you tell an employee they need to supply their own tools 30k isn’t quite as inviting, particularly in the London area. You say no major overheads but poles are costly.

I do understand the want to take on a subby and avoid employing. I completely appreciate you aren’t going to suddenly go “you got me, I was on the fiddle”. The truth is these types of posts where people are trying to stay one side of a very thin line to avoid employing someone all scream the same thing. The big black and white question to ask yourself is do these chaps get any work elsewhere and what would you do if they suddenly said they were doing a day for me and not coming in for you. 99% of the time I know what people who employ subbys would say.

FWIW if you want to employ a good standard of person treat them with the respect they deserve. Offer them a proper PAYE job and perhaps keep the subby option for people who genuinely prefer it too. Stop making them buy expensive poles and brushes… although I expect this was a red herring anyways. No one on here knows you, we’re not off reporting you to HMRC so you can do what you like at the end of it. You know the truth of your own business and why or how you’re employing subbys. If you want an easier path to solid recruitment you might have to decide to make a change.

Poles are costly but if you look after them the last a long time so it's not a huge overhead when they're earning £600 - £1,000 a week. I can't find an employed window cleaner position for close to that kind of money. I didn't go into too much detail in the initial post - but essentially, the guys are definitely onto a good thing. And it's not fiddling anything - the CEST tool returned this result (attached), the accountant is totally satisfied and so are HMRC so there's nothing to report. I don't know if there's much else I can say about it. Nobody is getting short changed, least of all HMRC.

 

[johnny bravo]

you can be paid by the goverment for taking on apprentices. they pay there wage. you can then pay them a bonus at the end of the week to keep them happy and stay with you

 

[P4dstar]

Poles are costly but if you look after them the last a long time so it's not a huge overhead when they're earning £600 - £1,000 a week. I can't find an employed window cleaner position for close to that kind of money. I didn't go into too much detail in the initial post - but essentially, the guys are definitely onto a good thing. And it's not fiddling anything - the CEST tool returned this result (attached), the accountant is totally satisfied and so are HMRC so there's nothing to report. I don't know if there's much else I can say about it. Nobody is getting short changed, least of all HMRC.

You have no reason to explain yourself to me. I'm not running off reporting you to HMRC I am simply explaining how these posts look from an outsider perspective. If I'm 100% honest I couldn't care if you're on the fiddle either, sod the tax man. As long as you're satisfied and comfortable that you could pass any investigation thats all that matters really.

Just to unpack what you've responded... try and look at it from the other angle. My advice is to help you see how it looks and potentially make whatever changes you need to get the personnel you want...

Poles are costly and they're also a consumable item. It is far different from a plumber who buys his own spanners that are likely to last him 10 plus years. Sections and parts of a pole need replacement regularly if they're used to their full potential. Also they're in contrast to your plumber or mechanics toolbox in that they can't earn money with the pole on the side the way a mechanic or plumber can. If you're cool with what you're doing there then don't take my advice but don't take offence either. In my opinion people purchasing their own poles are likely to feel aggrieved.

£600 a week is £30k. That is £30k in close proximity to London and you won't be paying him 5 and a half weeks holiday that a PAYE employee would be entitled to. You say you can't find an employed window cleaner position close to that, i've just found one @ £29k PAYE including holiday, the value of that exceeds what you're offering, very quick Google search. £600 isn't worth what it used to be anymore mate. Your base rate needs to jump if you want to remain competitive and don't want to change your model.

 

[Iron Giant]

Hi everyone, looking for advice! I run a window cleaning business in Kent with 4 large rounds. One of our guys left suddenly due to personal issues, and we’re struggling to find a replacement.

We operate on a subcontracting basis:

• Operatives earn £30-£40k/year with no admin, risk, or major overheads—just cleaning (and no stress of dealing with .
• We provide vans, handle all admin, marketing, canvassing, customer contact, round planning, and payments. Subcontractors just cover fuel and insurance.

It’s a great opportunity for an experienced window cleaner, but we’re not getting any decent applicants despite advertising on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Indeed.

We’re looking for someone with:

• At least 1 year of recent experience
• A full driver’s license
• English-speaking
• Based locally (Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells/Sevenoaks area preferred).

Does anyone know someone interested or have tips on where to advertise? Thanks!

For the right person who is able to work or wants to work on their own it might be ideal, but the vast majority of people don't they want work mates who they can have a laugh with,

Also it's freezing at times working outside, people could stack shelves in a supermarket and get paid a similar wage and be warm also get 4 weeks paid holiday, sick pay and a company pension,

The above doesn't make your job look very appealing at all.

 

[Nextgen]

Something to consider I have a guy that's worked for me for 2 years now never off sick turns up regular as clockwork, he's great with customers we have 420 we operate on a 5 week cycle.
We are a limited company I pay him the living wage and pay him dividends in the summer and winter, he gets every 5th Friday off a week in the summer and 2 weeks in winter plus he's finished by 2pm most days.
I have also signed an agreement that when my wife and myself are dead he inherites the whole business, I treat him like family as he's been loyal to me and when I get all my directors loan money that I put into the business he will get 40% of monthly income each and 10% for costs etc.
Of you treat them right and make them feel valued it can pour down every day as there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[P4dstar]

get 4 weeks paid holiday

It’s more than that mate. Every full time employee is entitled to 20 days or 4 weeks paid holiday and 8 further bank holidays. That’s 5.6 weeks paid leave every year. This is nearly 11% of the time off paid. Without even factoring in the benefit of being able to get sick pay etc this needs to be factored in to the wages. £600 minus 11% just became £534.

 

[Iron Giant]

It’s more than that mate. Every full time employee is entitled to 20 days or 4 weeks paid holiday and 8 further bank holidays. That’s 5.6 weeks paid leave every year. This is nearly 11% of the time off paid. Without even factoring in the benefit of being able to get sick pay etc this needs to be factored in to the wages. £600 minus 11% just became £534.

I'm thick as mince and been self employed for 25 years I ain't got a clue all I know is my wife has always got far too much time off

 

[mattybondi]

id go have a chat somewhere where our caribbean cousins will see it .i notice the biggish firms round my way have quite a lot of ethnic lads with a van each sounds a bit like your set up.I see a lad drives a krispy creme truck id start with him put the word out if you offered him a score

 

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

You have no reason to explain yourself to me. I'm not running off reporting you to HMRC I am simply explaining how these posts look from an outsider perspective. If I'm 100% honest I couldn't care if you're on the fiddle either, sod the tax man. As long as you're satisfied and comfortable that you could pass any investigation thats all that matters really.

Just to unpack what you've responded... try and look at it from the other angle. My advice is to help you see how it looks and potentially make whatever changes you need to get the personnel you want...

Poles are costly and they're also a consumable item. It is far different from a plumber who buys his own spanners that are likely to last him 10 plus years. Sections and parts of a pole need replacement regularly if they're used to their full potential. Also they're in contrast to your plumber or mechanics toolbox in that they can't earn money with the pole on the side the way a mechanic or plumber can. If you're cool with what you're doing there then don't take my advice but don't take offence either. In my opinion people purchasing their own poles are likely to feel aggrieved.

£600 a week is £30k. That is £30k in close proximity to London and you won't be paying him 5 and a half weeks holiday that a PAYE employee would be entitled to. You say you can't find an employed window cleaner position close to that, i've just found one @ £29k PAYE including holiday, the value of that exceeds what you're offering, very quick Google search. £600 isn't worth what it used to be anymore mate. Your base rate needs to jump if you want to remain competitive and don't want to change your model.

Thanks for your input; I appreciate the perspective.

I haven’t seen any truly employed window cleaning positions near us offering more than £12 an hour, so I’m not sure where that £29k figure comes from—or if it’s actually subcontracting rather than PAYE. Employers have extra costs like holiday pay, NI, and pensions, so they need to retain enough revenue generated by employees to survive, meaning they offer lower pay.

Here’s how it works for our subcontractors: they get 40-50% of VAT-inclusive revenue (depends on the overheads they want us to cover) when the job is done, not when the customer pays, and we absorb all bad debt and then lose over 30% on the remaining revenue in VAT right off the bat. They don’t deal with quoting, scheduling, customer service, marketing, or chasing payments—we take care of it all. All their time is earning time except for travel, which we keep to a minimum with careful scheduling. They also have total control: they choose when and where they work, and if they go on holiday, they can send a sub in their place and pay them out of their cut or just plan for this in advance. This is pretty universal - self employment means you have higher earning potential and more flexibility but less "security" and nobody gets the best of both worlds.

We’re good to our subcontractors and support them through tough times—we don’t just cut them loose. The trade-off works both ways: they earn far more than the value of holiday pay and pensions. One of our guys, who works hard, makes over £70k a year. To match that in an employed position, someone would need to work close to 50 hours a week at local hourly rates.

At the end of the day, it’s about what matters most to the individual. Security? Go for PAYE. Flexibility and higher earning potential? Subcontracting wins. It’s not for everyone, but the choice is there and nobody's getting diddled here.

 

[P4dstar]

I haven’t seen any truly employed window cleaning positions near us offering more than £12 an hour, so I’m not sure where that £29k figure comes from—or if it’s actually subcontracting rather than PAYE. Employers have extra costs like holiday pay, NI, and pensions, so they need to retain enough revenue generated by employees to survive, meaning they offer lower pay.

It comes from a quick Google search. And it is not sub contracting they are including holidays in the advert. In terms of offering hourly rates they seem to be indicating £15-16 an hour in London.

Here’s how it works for our subcontractors: they get 40-50% of VAT-inclusive revenue (depends on the overheads they want us to cover) when the job is done, not when the customer pays, and we absorb all bad debt and then lose over 30% on the remaining revenue in VAT right off the bat.

This seems vague, keep it clear for the potential staff member so they know their percentage. Don't let them dictate what overheads your covering. Keep it clear for them. If you're losing 30% for VAT get a better accountant, you're being ripped off. VAT has been 20% for years

They don’t deal with quoting, scheduling, customer service, marketing, or chasing payments—we take care of it all. All their time is earning time except for travel, which we keep to a minimum with careful scheduling. They also have total control: they choose when and where they work, and if they go on holiday, they can send a sub in their place and pay them out of their cut or just plan for this in advance. This is pretty universal - self employment means you have higher earning potential and more flexibility but less "security" and nobody gets the best of both worlds.

Agreed. What you have outlined here seems a more attractive proposition than you mentioned above. But you're falling down somewhere otherwise you wouldn't be looking for help on it mate.

We’re good to our subcontractors and support them through tough times—we don’t just cut them loose. The trade-off works both ways: they earn far more than the value of holiday pay and pensions. One of our guys, who works hard, makes over £70k a year. To match that in an employed position, someone would need to work close to 50 hours a week at local hourly rates.

At the end of the day, it’s about what matters most to the individual. Security? Go for PAYE. Flexibility and higher earning potential? Subcontracting wins. It’s not for everyone, but the choice is there and nobody's getting diddled here.

I truly believe you feel you're good to them but in all honesty you haven't taken any feedback given by people on this thread and said "that's a good idea" or "you're right" or even "I'll look into that". You have been very defensive of your current system. I don't know what you expected us to do or say here. We can all agree with you and say they're on to a good thing and look puzzled about it if you like but it won't actually help you fix the issue.

People have thrown out the idea of Franchising. It seems the model you suggest is essentially that only you are absorbing all running costs and losing the security gained with a franchisee contract.

You are right it isn't for everyone.There are pros and cons to both. There is very little stopping you offering both options. Why not get the best of both worlds and let your employees choose the set up that works best for them?

 

[P4dstar]

I'm thick as mince and been self employed for 25 years I ain't got a clue all I know is my wife has always got far too much time off

I'd get bored being made to take all that time off nowadays. I had 3 holidays last year and took the time off I wanted when I felt like for them. I don't think I used all the time I give staff either way.

 

[Millhouse Window Cleaning]

It comes from a quick Google search. And it is not sub contracting they are including holidays in the advert. In terms of offering hourly rates they seem to be indicating £15-16 an hour in London.


This seems vague, keep it clear for the potential staff member so they know their percentage. Don't let them dictate what overheads your covering. Keep it clear for them. If you're losing 30% for VAT get a better accountant, you're being ripped off. VAT has been 20% for years

Agreed. What you have outlined here seems a more attractive proposition than you mentioned above. But you're falling down somewhere otherwise you wouldn't be looking for help on it mate.

I truly believe you feel you're good to them but in all honesty you haven't taken any feedback given by people on this thread and said "that's a good idea" or "you're right" or even "I'll look into that". You have been very defensive of your current system. I don't know what you expected us to do or say here. We can all agree with you and say they're on to a good thing and look puzzled about it if you like but it won't actually help you fix the issue.

People have thrown out the idea of Franchising. It seems the model you suggest is essentially that only you are absorbing all running costs and losing the security gained with a franchisee contract.

You are right it isn't for everyone.There are pros and cons to both. There is very little stopping you offering both options. Why not get the best of both worlds and let your employees choose the set up that works best for them?

Well... I did search Google (and Indeed) and I can't find a job like that in Kent!

We lose 30% on VAT because we pay VAT on the full revenue but we only take 50% of that revenue. Nothing to do with the accountant.

We aren't in London or charging London prices. So a London salary is not applicable.

Said above we are looking at franchising we just aren't quite ready to launch this. One of our guys had personal issues, tried to stick it out as long as possible but had to give up. So we have a vacancy for a round and we are trying to find a subcontractor atm. The good news is when we changed the ad from annual to weekly pay amount we got some great applicants through and are sorted. So problem solved!