Rishi Sunaks Super Deduction Explained.

[Part Timer]

ok well I have learned a few things here tonight, looks like it might be time for a new van and a safer system after all. I guess i still have my motorcycle if I want some danger in my life..

and I just realised, the title of this thread has nothing to do with its content now..?

Personally, I think it's a waste of money a flashy tank and all that. Why get your business into more debt? 

All you need is a tank, and a decent ro and di system. 

If your going to spend serious dough, spend it on decent poles from Gardiner.

Just my opinion 

You changed it though so this is your fault as well ?

 

[Pjj]

ok well I have learned a few things here tonight, looks like it might be time for a new van and a safer system after all. I guess i still have my motorcycle if I want some danger in my life..

and I just realised, the title of this thread has nothing to do with its content now..?

Just don’t do this kind of thing and you should be ok ???

 

[NewGuy]

go and crash it then on monday and report back here!

?

Ha, I do venture off on some off-road tracks on my way to some customers with a full tank (500L) that would make a good testing track for off-road vehicles!  Can be quite hairy but fun!

 

[NewGuy]

Just don’t do this kind of thing and you should be ok ???

View attachment 23956

Some years back we were on our motorbikes in Cornwall and this looks like the remains of my mate's bike (it isn't though) when he ended up hitting a lorry head-on!  Amazingly he was not injured but his bike was ruined!

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

There are several crash tested systems on the market Ime not gojng to recommend any particular brand but we have 3 ionic systems ones in our vans , they also do a “ budget version “ called pure o2 and will price match any other brands price evan non crash tested systems so I know ware I would be looking , 

This is the system I have. Can’t fault it, it’s been great and yes they priced matched a cheaper quote (was from Window Cleaning Wearhouse). 
 

@cleaniac I don’t know if it would make a difference to the problem you described,  but Ionics pre-drill the holes for the system before waterproofing the van. This way it means the drilled holes are also waterproofed. Don’t know if that solves the issues your on about, though? ?

https://www.pure2o.co.uk/price-promise/

 

[Iron Giant]

You guys are entitled to your opinion. 

And I respect that.

I do not agree that it offers much more in protection. 

Like I said, don't exceed the payload and your fine. Keep the tank up against bulkhead, fixed down using the 8 lashing eyes that are rated for the vehicle.

I don't see the problem. But then again there is also no problem with spending money on a "crash tested" system if you want, I just don't think it offers much over what already on offer within the limits of the vehicle from factory. 

Just my opinion. It's not right or wrong..

Do what you want to do, spend what you want to spend. The truth of the matter is that manufacturers will make you believe something is more dangerous than it really is in order to rinse 30k out of you for a water tank, and it might be a little be safer perhaps, but I doubt it would make much of a difference in a crash. Below payload on both systems should be fine  mass is mass. 1000 kg of bricks is the same as 1000kg of feathers, water, sand, women's panties...It's all the same. 

Lashing points out of my van they ain't going to securely hold a load of 675kg which is the payload for my van in the event of a collision, fills me with dread that I used to have a strapped in tank and had no idea that the lashing D Rings were as pitiful as this 

 

[cleaniac]

Some years back we were on our motorbikes in Cornwall and this looks like the remains of my mate's bike (it isn't though) when he ended up hitting a lorry head-on!  Amazingly he was not injured but his bike was ruined!

I got knocked off mine 2 years ago to date. Split the shoulder socket in half and now facing an operation for a rebuild.

??

 

[Part Timer]

I got knocked off mine 2 years ago to date. Split the shoulder socket in half and now facing an operation for a rebuild.

??

See, if you'd have even been strapped on you wouldn't have been so badly injured. If you'd been bolted on you'd have walked away.

 

[cleaniac]

See, if you'd have even been strapped on you wouldn't have been so badly injured. If you'd been bolted on you'd have walked away.

**PART TIMER GOES OFF TO INVENT SADDLEBELTS FOR MOTORCYCLISTS"

 

[Part Timer]

**PART TIMER GOES OFF TO INVENT SADDLEBELTS FOR MOTORCYCLISTS"

Just get some bungee's ?

 

[spruce]

Lashing points out of my van they ain't going to securely hold a load of 675kg which is the payload for my van in the event of a collision, fills me with dread that I used to have a strapped in tank and had no idea that the lashing D Rings were as pitiful as this 

View attachment 23959

View attachment 23960

Unfortunately people just presume that the load securing hooks in their van's cargo area will secure anything they put into the van. Again, unfortunately, the manufacturers don't put a warning sticker up inside the cargo area reminding drivers that these D Hooks are very limited in their securing capabilities.

My son's Berlingo van has 2 cargo hooks made out of wire spot welded to the rear wheel arches. I can bend the hooks straight with my fingers. Yet nowhere have I even seen a load capacity recorded in the vehicle's user manual. What also annoys me is that manufacturers will give a payload limit for the van and a maximum axle weight, but none of them give a kerb weight so you know how much weight you can add to each axle.

Crash tested systems are tested and certificated crash safe to a speed of 30 MPH. That's not particularly reassuring to me, although it's better than nothing.

I seem to remember a windie down south purchased and self fit his own Gardiner tank. This was in the early days before Grippatank. He was supplied with spacer plates to use when bolting the tank through the floor. Also included in the diy pack was some liquid epoxy glue. This was to be applied to the plate to glue the plate to the floor for additional strength. I presume that if you want to transfer your tank to another van you need to buy new spacer plates and epoxy resin if they still use this process.

I have seen several PF installations. The have a nice stainless steel frame around a wydale tank. But they fit mild steel spacer plates under the van. On both installations I saw, those spacer plates were as rusty as anything.

 

[ched999uk]

Yet nowhere have I even seen a load capacity recorded in the vehicle's user manual. What also annoys me is that manufacturers will give a payload limit for the van and a maximum axle weight, but none of them give a kerb weight so you know how much weight you can add to each axle.

Well said.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

I have seen several PF installations. The have a nice stainless steel frame around a wydale tank. But they fit mild steel spacer plates under the van. On both installations I saw, those spacer plates were as rusty as anything.

This is interesting, as obviously most of us won’t check under our vans. Will this rust cause a issue with the safety or is it just surface rust, so to speak? (Excuse my ignorance, I don’t know much about this stuff). 
 

I feel it’s a shame non of the manufacturers are on here to answer our questions. I feel like it would do a world of good hearing from them. I’ll tag @Alex Gardiner since, even though he doesn’t sell them, Gardiner did help develop Grippa’s Tanks so maybe he can advice a bit. 

 

[Alex Gardiner]

This is interesting, as obviously most of us won’t check under our vans. Will this rust cause a issue with the safety or is it just surface rust, so to speak? (Excuse my ignorance, I don’t know much about this stuff). 
 

I feel it’s a shame non of the manufacturers are on here to answer our questions. I feel like it would do a world of good hearing from them. I’ll tag @Alex Gardiner since, even though he doesn’t sell them, Gardiner did help develop Grippa’s Tanks so maybe he can advice a bit. 

You tagged - so here I am ?

Which question would you like a comment on?

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

You tagged - so here I am ?

Which question would you like a comment on?

Sorry mate! The rust build up on the spreader plates under the van. Would this cause a issue with the safety, is it something you have experience with when developing the Grippa tanks? 

 

[Pjj]

All my vans have stainless steel spreader plates  as the firm I use fit carpet cleaning machines and this is what they use for them , do you have a Hydramaster or laser master near you ?? That’s who fitted ours they are approved installers for Ionic’s 

 

[ched999uk]

Sorry mate! The rust build up on the spreader plates under the van. Would this cause a issue with the safety, is it something you have experience with when developing the Grippa tanks? 

If it's just mild steel bolted through floor as spacer plates then that is not good. Basically the mild steel will trap water between it and the floor of the van. This will corrode the mild steel making it weaker. The additional problem is that rust expands so that may break the pain finish of the van underfloor. Then you get corrosion on the underside of the floor, which, as you say no one ever looks at! It's not a quick process, probably taking years to do significant damage but it might be worth sorting sooner rather than later.

Ideally the spreader plates should be stainless or at least galvanised. Worst case slacken off the plates and get some underseal between the plate and the van floor. I might even be inclined to bolt them back up after underseal then underseal over the spreader plates as well so they are almost encapsulated. 

 

[Pjj]

If it's just mild steel bolted through floor as spacer plates then that is not good. Basically the mild steel will trap water between it and the floor of the van. This will corrode the mild steel making it weaker. The additional problem is that rust expands so that may break the pain finish of the van underfloor. Then you get corrosion on the underside of the floor, which, as you say no one ever looks at! It's not a quick process, probably taking years to do significant damage but it might be worth sorting sooner rather than later.

Ideally the spreader plates should be stainless or at least galvanised. Worst case slacken off the plates and get some underseal between the plate and the van floor. I might even be inclined to bolt them back up after underseal then underseal over the spreader plates as well so they are almost encapsulated. 

A spray with wax oil is good that’s what they did with mine as belt and braces 

 

[Alex Gardiner]

Sorry mate! The rust build up on the spreader plates under the van. Would this cause a issue with the safety, is it something you have experience with when developing the Grippa tanks? 

Hi MJA

As has been said the spreader plates can be in stainless steel. The bolts should be hi-tension bolts and these will not be in stainless steel, but once fitted should be treated with wax under-seal or sealant of some sort. It is important not to use silicone sealant on any holes through the floorpan or on the plates and bolts as this will cause rust to form very quickly.

Rust will degrade spreader plates given time and reduce the effectiveness of a spreader plate and floorpan. So if found to be rusty it would be good to remove, clean, treat and refit. In reality it will take rust a long time to compromise a decent spreader plate though as these should usually be at least 4-5mm. It is more likely that the floorpan of the vehicle will be compromised by rust first as these are much thinner than the spreader plates - so if rust is present it is good to treat quickly.

 

[Pjj]

Most van floors theses days are galvanised or phosphate coated so they shouldn’t rust apart from the drilled holes my Renault was 6 years old and when I removed the system there was no rust at all and that’s on a cheap and nasty Renault!!! ???

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Thanks for replies lads!

To be clear I haven’t noticed any issues with mine. I don’t know much about this stuff so thought I would ask as if it’s something to be considered about. Ionics fitted mine and the frame is stainless steel so I assume the spreader plates are also. Thanks for all the info!