Ro 10 inch adjustable flow restictor help

[Deleted member 11517]

Firstly 10 points to spruce as I know before writing he will bring the his knowledge to the table.

Please see the picture this is the valve I have fitted. My membranes have lasted 2 years so I'm very happy with that but I would like to get clued up to setting up best this rescrictor valve.

Firstly I have x2 150 gpd 10 inch membranes 1

And i have a pressure guage fitted just before the membranes.

What am I looking for when adjusting this. I'm not too fussed about producing quicker it's more keeping the membranes in good condition. And not causing damage to them

Feel free to recommend the correct rated flow restrictor for the x2 membranes.

Thanks

 

[doug atkinson]

Personally if that works stick with it. I fit flow restrictors on our systems and I find each lot I purchase is never the same.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

Personally if that works stick with it. I fit flow restrictors on our systems and I find each lot I purchase is never the same.

Thank you.

?Can you damage the membranes at all with the way mines set up

 

[spruce]

What you want to do is set your r/o up, so it is running at its best efficiency. Initially, this is going to take time and patience @Bob1980

Your r/o will be running at it most efficient when the tds of the pure from the r/o is at its lowest.

This will mean fractionally tweaking your waste valve either open or closed, letting the r/o run for around 5 minutes and then taking a sample from the pure tube and testing it with your tds meter.

My old 450gpd r/o had a fixed restrictor which was set at 3 to 1 ratio. It still produced good quality pure water at that ratio. What it did do though is waste a lot of water. My 4040 currently performs best on a 55 waste to 45 pure. If that also applied to my old 450gpd, then I wasted a lot of water down the drain.

We try to get as close to a rejection rate of 98% as we can. I think we spoke about rejection rate on another thread.

 

[spruce]

Thank you.

?Can you damage the membranes at all with the way mines set up

If you restrict your water to waste too much then, yes, you will damage your membranes. When setting up my r/o I started at a 1 to 1 waste to pure ratio. On my current membrane, a 1 to 1 ratio isn't the membrane's sweet spot where it's performing at its best. 55 to 45 is best for me. I can go to 60 / 40, or even up to 65 / 35 and the rejection rate stays the same, but I waste more water. If I go to 70 / 30 then my rejection rate increases, mainly due to the lowering of pressure on the membrane. (I don't have a booster pump.) But I'm wasting lots of water, and my carbon block filter isn't going to last long.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

If you restrict your water to waste too much then, yes, you will damage your membranes. When setting up my r/o I started at a 1 to 1 waste to pure ratio. On my current membrane, a 1 to 1 ratio isn't the membrane's sweet spot where it's performing at its best. 55 to 45 is best for me. I can go to 60 / 40, or even up to 65 / 35 and the rejection rate stays the same, but I waste more water. If I go to 70 / 30 then my rejection rate increases, mainly due to the lowering of pressure on the membrane. (I don't have a booster pump.) But I'm wasting lots of water, and my carbon block filter isn't going to last long.

Thank you very helpful again.
So to measure the waste and the pure I'm guessing I set a timer for a minute and measure how much water is coming out within that time of each one.

 

[spruce]

Thank you very helpful again.
So to measure the waste and the pure I'm guessing I set a timer for a minute and measure how much water is coming out within that time of each one.

You could do that, which is what I did, or just get 2 empty plastic milk containers and fill one with pure and the other waste and see how they compare. To start with, the waste should fill slightly quicker.

These days I have an inline tds meter with 2 sensors. The first is after the r/o, before DI and the other is after the DI before storage. I know my pure TDS will be 3ppm after the r/o has settled down. If it's higher, then I will usually test the tap water tds. If the pure tds is 4 then the tap water tds is going to be higher than 150 or the waste gate valve need to be fractionally opened. If the reading is between 2 and 3 then that's fine.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

You could do that, which is what I did, or just get 2 empty plastic milk containers and fill one with pure and the other waste and see how they compare. To start with, the waste should fill slightly quicker.

These days I have an inline tds meter with 2 sensors. The first is after the r/o, before DI and the other is after the DI before storage. I know my pure TDS will be 3ppm after the r/o has settled down. If it's higher, then I will usually test the tap water tds. If the pure tds is 4 then the tap water tds is going to be higher than 150 or the waste gate valve need to be fractionally opened. If the reading is between 2 and 3 then that's fine.

Thank you. I have actually had this system since 2006 but with trying to save money instead of the attitude of I will just replace and having two young kids that I'm home alot with I now find myself wanting to know more ?

So should I have more waste water than pure in that minute?

I also have inline tds so its easy to to check.

I think the membranes are cheap at £40 each. But I just find it's cheaper to get the membranes working right as the cost of resin is what gets me.

Thanks again spruce top man

 

[Pjj]

What you want to do is set your r/o up, so it is running at its best efficiency. Initially, this is going to take time and patience @Bob1980

Your r/o will be running at it most efficient when the tds of the pure from the r/o is at its lowest.

This will mean fractionally tweaking your waste valve either open or closed, letting the r/o run for around 5 minutes and then taking a sample from the pure tube and testing it with your tds meter.

My old 450gpd r/o had a fixed restrictor which was set at 3 to 1 ratio. It still produced good quality pure water at that ratio. What it did do though is waste a lot of water. My 4040 currently performs best on a 55 waste to 45 pure. If that also applied to my old 450gpd, then I wasted a lot of water down the drain.

We try to get as close to a rejection rate of 98% as we can. I think we spoke about rejection rate on another thread.

I totally agree with what you are saying @spruce but a lot of the time the tap TDS can alter by a large number so today having the waist valve in a certain position will be right but tomorrow it might not be right I tend to just set mine between two points that I know it will usually work best in and leave it at that ????

 

[spruce]

Thank you. I have actually had this system since 2006 but with trying to save money instead of the attitude of I will just replace and having two young kids that I'm home alot with I now find myself wanting to know more ?

So should I have more waste water than pure in that minute?

I also have inline tds so its easy to to check.

I think the membranes are cheap at £40 each. But I just find it's cheaper to get the membranes working right as the cost of resin is what gets me.

Thanks again spruce top man

As I say, we should be producing a little more waste than pure. But then again, a cleaner with much harder water may need a higher waste to pure ratio. It's all about finding your r/o's sweet spot.

Just a point regarding membranes. When purchasing membranes, the purchase price shouldn't be the main deciding factor, IMHO. Many of these suppliers focus on the drinks and Aquatic sectors and sell the same product to window cleaners. In the drinks and aquatic sectors, ultrapure water isn't a necessity. So these suppliers tend to sell cheap, Chinese manufactured membranes that aren't that efficient or long-lasting. We need the best membranes available, and they will usually be ones made in the USA and are more expensive.
More efficient, quality membranes will tend to save you money in the long term. As an extreme example, There was a supplier advertising cheap Chinese sourced 4040 membranes at around £149. The cost of an HF5 Axeon membrane made in the USA was about 2.5 times that amount. However, the supplier noted that the rejection rate on these membranes was around 80%. This meant that the additional cost of resin to polish those remaining ppm would dramatically increase filtration costs. Back then, a 25 litre bag of Tulsion MB115 was around £80. Now it's around £110.

Added to that, I would never have expected a cheap membrane to have lasted 10 years like this Axeon membrane of mine has. So for your membranes, I would choose either Axeon or Filmtec.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

As I say, we should be producing a little more waste than pure. But then again, a cleaner with much harder water may need a higher waste to pure ratio. It's all about finding your r/o's sweet spot.

Just a point regarding membranes. When purchasing membranes, the purchase price shouldn't be the main deciding factor, IMHO. Many of these suppliers focus on the drinks and Aquatic sectors and sell the same product to window cleaners. In the drinks and aquatic sectors, ultrapure water isn't a necessity. So these suppliers tend to sell cheap, Chinese manufactured membranes that aren't that efficient or long-lasting. We need the best membranes available, and they will usually be ones made in the USA and are more expensive.
More efficient, quality membranes will tend to save you money in the long term. As an extreme example, There was a supplier advertising cheap Chinese sourced 4040 membranes at around £149. The cost of an HF5 Axeon membrane made in the USA was about 2.5 times that amount. However, the supplier noted that the rejection rate on these membranes was around 80%. This meant that the additional cost of resin to polish those remaining ppm would dramatically increase filtration costs. Back then, a 25 litre bag of Tulsion MB115 was around £80. Now it's around £110.

Added to that, I would never have expected a cheap membrane to have lasted 10 years like this Axeon membrane of mine has. So for your membranes, I would choose either Axeon or Filmtec.

I used to always get filmtec but I was put on to a brand called voltron and they work very well I will give it a good go of setting it all up.

I was wanting to go to a 4040 system but they way i produce water and store it its just not worth the hassle of changing everything and going into the unknown. As well as not being on a water meter.

 

[Pjj]

As I say, we should be producing a little more waste than pure. But then again, a cleaner with much harder water may need a higher waste to pure ratio. It's all about finding your r/o's sweet spot.

Just a point regarding membranes. When purchasing membranes, the purchase price shouldn't be the main deciding factor, IMHO. Many of these suppliers focus on the drinks and Aquatic sectors and sell the same product to window cleaners. In the drinks and aquatic sectors, ultrapure water isn't a necessity. So these suppliers tend to sell cheap, Chinese manufactured membranes that aren't that efficient or long-lasting. We need the best membranes available, and they will usually be ones made in the USA and are more expensive.
More efficient, quality membranes will tend to save you money in the long term. As an extreme example, There was a supplier advertising cheap Chinese sourced 4040 membranes at around £149. The cost of an HF5 Axeon membrane made in the USA was about 2.5 times that amount. However, the supplier noted that the rejection rate on these membranes was around 80%. This meant that the additional cost of resin to polish those remaining ppm would dramatically increase filtration costs. Back then, a 25 litre bag of Tulsion MB115 was around £80. Now it's around £110.

Added to that, I would never have expected a cheap membrane to have lasted 10 years like this Axeon membrane of mine has. So for your membranes, I would choose either Axeon or Filmtec.

I agree I have filmtec in mine 8 years old and still fine

 

[spruce]

I used to always get filmtec but I was put on to a brand called voltron and they work very well I will give it a good go of setting it all up.

I was wanting to go to a 4040 system but they way i produce water and store it its just not worth the hassle of changing everything and going into the unknown. As well as not being on a water meter.

Voltron = made in China.

 

[Deleted member 11517]

Voltron = made in China.

Two years of running 370 tds down to 6 its only the last 2 months its crept up to 12.