Sacked for being too expensive!

[Markyboy 50]

Is there any tips/guide you could give for contract work Green?

It's not a tip or a guide mate but I find contract/ commercial work much more appealing than residential work. In one place for hours.

 

[spruce]

It's not a tip or a guide mate but I find contract/ commercial work much more appealing than residential work. In one place for hours.

Personally, I think its easy to see the grass as being greener on the other side.

We have a mixture of both commercial and residential with residential being by far the majority of the work we do.

I'm happy with our mix. Although we had done most our core commercial work for many years, its something we don't take for granted. It could be cancelled at any time. Chasing and waiting for payment is part of commercial work and you can expect to wait between 30 and 60 days for payment; 90 if they can stall it. Chasing payment can be very frustrating so the quicker you can learn the payment process of each business you deal with, you can then keep 2 steps ahead of them to reduce the likelihood of excuses to delay payment. Its a good feeling when a big payment comes in - after all the job's only complete when payment has been received, not when the job has been done.

Another thing about payment with commercial is that cheques must be made out to the business as a payee. If you don't have a business account, this can be a problem. I use my personal account for cheques as it doesn't cost me anything. A business account with Natwest can be quite costly per month depending on how I use it.

If you loose a big commercial customer the financial impact can be large, especially if they fold already owing you money. So not only do you not get paid for the work done, you also have a big hole in your schedule to fill.

One of the pluses with residential is that you get paid pretty promptly. A bad debt isn't usually a major financial blow. With residential you spread the risk as you don't have all your eggs in one basket.

With commercial you have to ensure that your insurances cover you for every eventuality. You have to ensure that your Method Statement and risk assessments documents are fully up to date and are followed to the letter. You have to take the attitude that you are ensuring you cover your backside as there is a lot more at stake if an accident were to happen.

Doing commercial you always have to have a backup plan. We have often gone to a scheduled job to find it couldn't be done that day or week as contractors were employed doing other maintenance/repairs. We've had a contractor arrive with a power washer to jet wash the paving around the very windows we had just cleaned.

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[Neilmnwc]

On the subject of prices & putting them up, I always try and guess a reaction whether it be £1 or £2 increase. I've only been doing the windows for 2 years & have some old jobs from the last windy & am gradually trying to get them right.

I'm often wrong about folk, that's people though.

Most accept it as part of business, often the ones who you think can spare it really, really don't like parting with their cash & complain their new car doesn't run on fresh air. I don't increase without a backup incase they cancel.

 

[spruce]

On the subject of prices & putting them up, I always try and guess a reaction whether it be £1 or £2 increase. I've only been doing the windows for 2 years & have some old jobs from the last windy & am gradually trying to get them right.I'm often wrong about folk, that's people though.

Most accept it as part of business, often the ones who you think can spare it really, really don't like parting with their cash & complain their new car doesn't run on fresh air. I don't increase without a backup incase they cancel.

What would you see as a backup if they cancel?

We bought a trad round on an estate and converted it to wfp over just on 10 years ago now.

The prices weren't good but they also did a terrible job. They did try to raise prices we later heard but they were blackmailed into keeping current pricing as any increase would lead to most of their customers cancelling. It was and still is a tight knit community and that process worked for them.

We tried to raise prices after cleaning the round for some time and met the same response. (It didn't matter to them that the quality of clean we provided, cleaning frames and sills was far superior to the glass only cleaners they had before.)

We didn't give in and lost most of the round. Slowly but surely most asked to be taken back on over the next 6 months. To this day the ring leader refuses to even greet me. Through the whole situation her mother in law, who lives across the road continued with our services. If it wasn't for her (mother in law) I would probably have dumped the whole round as I wasn't interested in their blackmail tactics. I'm glad we stuck though it as we ended up with a good bunch of customers after we 'cracked' the anti price increase cartel.

Sometimes the backup plan is to thank them for their business, take your leave and forget them and canvass elsewhere for replacements.

 

[Elliot]

I had a round were I used to see another windy doing a few nearby . He carried a bucket with no water in but a radio in . He stopped turning up and a few of his custys approached me I had to educate em on paying for a service . One old lass paid him with a cuppa and a biscuit . Another paid him by letting him wash his scrim with hot water . Most of em paid 50p or a £1.00 . These were 3 bed semis . Not small ones iether some had double bays . This was 15 years ago . I banged em up ro something half decent but they would only take so much before there were grumbles of a rebellion . I ended up selling it on with the work I had nearby .

 

[Guido Possum]

Just bite the bullet and move forward with your "current" pricing. There's nothing worse than doing a job that you know is under-priced!!

Well, losing £20/month x (however many customers drop you) is arguably worse, especially considering you're tossing away £20 for a measly £2 extra.

I agree with you, but sadly window cleaning is simply not an essential service and to many people it's not even important.

Really most customers are doing us the favor: paying us to do a job any fool can do themselves with just £25 of basic tools.

Electricians; plumbers; builders - they're tradesmen - people NEED their services when stuff goes wrong and no matter how important we might like to convince ourselves clean windows are, it is not really.

 

[Leeds]

Well, losing £20/month x (however many customers drop you) is arguably worse, especially considering you're tossing away £20 for a measly £2 extra.
I agree with you, but sadly window cleaning is simply not an essential service and to many people it's not even important.

Really most customers are doing us the favor: paying us to do a job any fool can do themselves with just £25 of basic tools.

Electricians; plumbers; builders - they're tradesmen - people NEED their services when stuff goes wrong and no matter how important we might like to convince ourselves clean windows are, it is not really.

I Disagree Guido. There's a lot of people that take pride in their homes. They want clean windows for their sake and for anyone who visits / looks at their home. They say: well I would do it myself, but I can't I'm (too old, too scared to do it, no equipment etc).

To them having their windows cleaned is as much a non-essential as vacuuming their house or decorating. It's necessary home maintenance. And that's why you can charge what you think is fair. And that's why there are even millionaires off the back of window cleaning alone.

You have to completely believe in your business. Otherwise you'll never make big money.

 

[spruce]

I Disagree Guido. There's a lot of people that take pride in their homes. They want clean windows for their sake and for anyone who visits / looks at their home. They say: well I would do it myself, but I can't I'm (too old, too scared to do it, no equipment etc).
To them having their windows cleaned is as much a non-essential as vacuuming their house or decorating. It's necessary home maintenance. And that's why you can charge what you think is fair. And that's why there are even millionaires off the back of window cleaning alone.

You have to completely believe in your business. Otherwise you'll never make big money.

This is true. We have often been told that they have tried and couldn't do as good a job as we did.

Many years ago one of our customers had visitors from Australia and the first question she asked her relatives is how she got her windows so clean. She told them they she had a window cleaner because she couldn't get clean them like that. So I believe we will always be considered a necessity amongst some.

However, if the windows didn't get cleaned it isn't a train smash. When you got sewerage all over the back garden because of a blocked drain, then you got to get a plumber in and pay his rates.You have no choice. Peoples perception is that our trade is very close to the bottom of the pecking order along with bin men. We disagree. I believe we are more skilled at our job than someone who jets a blocked drain for example, but what I believe doesn't count.

The perception of the people who pay our wages is what counts. So we can't take our business for granted. This is why I'm a firm believer in spreading our work, some commercial with mostly residential across a broad customer base.

I believe we also need to be sensitive to our customer's situation. But you can afford to be less sensitive when you have a full work load. If you take @Guido Possum's point about tossing away a £20 job for a measly £2 I can relate to what he says. We clean a couple of ex council estates (still with council houses). Most of those customers are charged less than others, but they always pay on the day and will pay for neighbours as well. So yes we won't earn as much that day, but we gain as we have very little debt in those areas.

Some are driven by money, others aren't. But it does show a lot about one's character. In the sales world, most sales representatives were money driven and would do anything to get a sale, lie, brag, you name it, even if the product wasn't suited to the customer's need. They were the ones that kept the company's turnover going, but they also caused the most issues and comebacks. Their first loyalty was to making money and customer care was a low priority to them. I can't recall ever coming across one who was money driven, but also had high levels of customer care.

With regard to window cleaning I believe we need to be balanced. We need to earn enough to make our business profitable but high levels of customer care reflect in your work ethos and customers tend to be more loyal. We don't live and work in a very affluent part of the country, so we rely on customer loyalty- we can't take the 'take it or leave it' stance.

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[Poles Apart]

Well, losing £20/month x (however many customers drop you) is arguably worse, especially considering you're tossing away £20 for a measly £2 extra.
I agree with you, but sadly window cleaning is simply not an essential service and to many people it's not even important.

Really most customers are doing us the favor: paying us to do a job any fool can do themselves with just £25 of basic tools.

Electricians; plumbers; builders - they're tradesmen - people NEED their services when stuff goes wrong and no matter how important we might like to convince ourselves clean windows are, it is not really.

I've been echoing this for years it's a luxury to have your windows cleaned and gradually people are not attaching any importance to it if I thought it would work I'd like to just clean someones windows when they call me, charge lots as a one off service but I'd doubt you'd get many calls

 

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

People pay good money for none essential items and services all the time. You just have to concentrate on avoiding those who don't or begrudge doing so- as it's these who will inevitably hamper you.

 

[tlwcs]

Well, losing £20/month x (however many customers drop you) is arguably worse, especially considering you're tossing away £20 for a measly £2 extra.
I agree with you, but sadly window cleaning is simply not an essential service and to many people it's not even important.

Really most customers are doing us the favor: paying us to do a job any fool can do themselves with just £25 of basic tools.

Electricians; plumbers; builders - they're tradesmen - people NEED their services when stuff goes wrong and no matter how important we might like to convince ourselves clean windows are, it is not really.

I disagree too. Your right though it is a non essential service.

What is essential though is they have found someone they like and trust, does a good job and is reliable.

That's where the money is for me.

Tony

 

[Dave B]

What possom is missing is if you lose a £10 customer out of every 6 for putting him up to £12 then the remaining 5 customers pays the same amount as the previous 6 leaving a slot spare for another new customer

 

[Leeds]

Remember, people pay

What possom is missing is if you lose a £10 customer out of every 6 for putting him up to £12 then the remaining 5 customers pays the same amount as the previous 6 leaving a slot spare for another new customer[/QUOTpay

and earning the same for less work. BUSINESS

 

[Dave B]

On that basis if all prices were the same ish a 500 customer round would pay the same as your old 600 customer round or 250 instead of 300 which is a big difference

 

[Guido Possum]

Remember, people payand earning the same for less work. BUSINESS

Touché indeed, I should've considered that actually; I won't even consider doing a shopfront that's worth under $20 me which is probably why I only have a handful of customers. No, wait, it's 'cause I'm too lazy to canvas - forgot about that.

 

[spruce]

What possom is missing is if you lose a £10 customer out of every 6 for putting him up to £12 then the remaining 5 customers pays the same amount as the previous 6 leaving a slot spare for another new customer

I'm sure @Guido Possum understands that.

But if you are pricing too high for the area then you will eventually loose customers. It will start off with the odd one or two who find a more competitive cleaner. When that cleaner proves reliable over time, then news spreads. Before long there is the possibility that you will loose more customers. By that time its too late to reevaluate the situation. Once the proverbial rot sets in, even the customers who stay with you will be in two minds if they should keep you or try the new guy. Customers in that limbo situation aren't truly happy with your service, not because you don't do a good job, but because they perceive you're charging too much for the job you do. In essence, you've lost them already.

The trick is to keep the balance right between your pricing and your customer acceptance of your pricing.

So rather than trying to put the prices up, is there a way of reducing the amount of time it takes to clean that house by working smarter? I had a very interesting conversation at the school gates with a fellow window cleaner this morning.

How much time do you spend trying the flush muck out of the gap between the window frame and the sill? Sometimes I spend more time doing that than washing and rinsing the window.

His response was to leave it. You wipe the lower sills anyway with a cloth (I do) so why waste your time trying to flush them out? He made a good point albeit one I wasn't totally comfortable with.

When the credit squeeze started in 2008 many holiday resorts suffered from a reduced number of visitors in Spain the following year. The Spanish hotelier's answer was to increase prices to compensate for their loss of custom. That didn't work so they extended the high season from April (or when Easter begins) right through the rest of the year expecting out of season holiday makers to be happy about paying in-season rates. They lost out even more.

This could also apply to window cleaning pricing.

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[TolishAPurd]

I'm sure @Guido Possum understands that.
But if you are pricing too high for the area then you will eventually loose customers. It will start off with the odd one or two who find a more competitive cleaner. When that cleaner proves reliable over time, then news spreads. Before long there is the possibility that you will loose more customers. By that time its too late to reevaluate the situation. Once the proverbial rot sets in, even the customers who stay with you will be in two minds if they should keep you or try the new guy. Customers in that limbo situation aren't truly happy with your service, not because you don't do a good job, but because they perceive you're charging too much for the job you do. In essence, you've lost them already.

The trick is to keep the balance right between your pricing and your customer acceptance of your pricing.

So rather than trying to put the prices up, is there a way of reducing the amount of time it takes to clean that house by working smarter? I had a very interesting conversation at the school gates with a fellow window cleaner this morning.

How much time do you spend trying the flush muck out of the gap between the window frame and the sill? Sometimes I spend more time doing that than washing and rinsing the window.

His response was to leave it. You wipe the lower sills anyway with a cloth (I do) so why waste your time trying to flush them out? He made a good point albeit one I wasn't totally comfortable with.

When the credit squeeze started in 2008 many holiday resorts suffered from a reduced number of visitors in Spain the following year. The Spanish hotelier's answer was to increase prices to compensate for their loss of custom. That didn't work so they extended the high season from April (or when Easter begins) right through the rest of the year expecting out of season holiday makers to be happy about paying in-season rates. They lost out even more.

This could also apply to window cleaning pricing.

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I agree. If people won't take a price increase, then take it upon yourself.

 

[Markyboy 50]

I rarely increase my prices. Just the odd one now and then. I don't think it's worth the risk. I make a good living out of the windows with only a couple of hard days a week. Why chance it for a few quid more?

 

[Tuffers]

I'm pretty happy with my pricing. There's only a handful that I class as underpriced, well to me anyway. I keep thinking of upping those prices but just can't be arsed.

 

[Dave B]

My prices are ok

I have a handfull like we all probably do where i quoted and then when i did the job thought i had undercut myself a bit but it is all exposure in the street while working

I'll probably not raise my prices for a couple more years as new work is priced better and as some leave and then I gain some it will work itself out

 

[Adams0211]

Me and Daveyboy were speaking about something similar earlier. Ive just about got all mine to where I want them price-wise. Ive got few that I suppose I could put up slightly but then I've got a few that are overpriced so it all evens itself out in the long run.

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