Softwash with poor results

[DeLaCruz]

Trying to remove these stains beneath the window sills / fan / gutter. I have treated with Oxalic 5% brushed on, scrubbed and rinsed (I though they may have been from metal in the window frame area ). Hypo used 3 applications, left for ages and scrubbed, doesn’t touch em. The one beneath the gutter looks potentially from the cladding above but not sure. Tons of these new builds around with the same staining patterns - would love to find a good solution, all help much appreciated thansk in advance  
 

 

[Pjj]

Hi John  you need to know what’s caused the staining to know what to use to remove it , if it’s k rend make sure that it’s not lost the colour from the render mix and  not actually staining we have had a few like that 

 

[DeLaCruz]

Hi John  you need to know what’s caused the staining to know what to use to remove it , if it’s k rend make sure that it’s not lost the colour from the render mix and  not actually staining we have had a few like that 

I did suspect that - it’s a common staining pattern amoungst these new build estates. I was thinking the constant water runoff on those area may have dulled the paint permanently 

 

[Pjj]

I did suspect that - it’s a common staining pattern amoungst these new build estates. I was thinking the constant water runoff on those area may have dulled the paint permanently 

Yes could be but is is k rend or painted render , I have had k rend ware water has run off sills take the colour out if the render mix as it’s not painted a dye is added to the render . 

 

[Pjj]

Just looked at the garage picture again that’s staining from the lead flashing by the roof @kevinc250  and @Dave B are the chemical experts  maybe they can offer some advice . 

 

[kevinc250]

i honestly don't know how to answer these questions, the solution is obvious to me but how and why are you using hypo and oxallic acid to begin with?

 

[DeLaCruz]

i honestly don't know how to answer these questions, the solution is obvious to me but how and why are you using hypo and oxallic acid to begin with?

Apologies I didn’t post any before pics of the staining on the property - it was stained with green algae which I removed using the 20:1 hypo mix and surfactant. The Oxalic was used for large rust stain left by satellite dish - the pics show the after which tbh looks like a good result however the stains beneath the sills / fan remained and I wanted to do a complete job and leave it stain free. 

 

[Pjj]

i honestly don't know how to answer these questions, the solution is obvious to me but how and why are you using hypo and oxallic acid to begin with?

Oxalic to remove rust , then hypo to kill and remove algi ??? 

 

[kevinc250]

ahh, sorry, i didn't grasp the whole thing, softwashing peels away layers and you can often get caught out by whats underneath that you may have not noticed because of the in your case green alghi.

generally if theres any rust or heavy stains you should treat these before any softwashing commences this, it just means that its possible with the hypo to blend in the areas you've done previously so it all looks even.

this is one i did early this year, you can still see whats left of the snow, and a picture of the home taken this afternoon as a drive by for comparison. 

 

[kevinc250]

couldn't find a way to rotate the first picture lol, the second picture shows a shadow on the right hand window but trust me its a wet patch as geoff the window cleaner did them this morning

 

[moto]

Morning All, sorry for OT; what colour external render will stay cleaner for longer / easier to maintain later? Thanks

 

[DeLaCruz]

generally if there is any rust or heavy stains you should treat these before any softwashing commences this, it just means that its possible with the hypo to blend in the areas you've done previously so it all looks even.

Thanks so the reply much appreciated - can i ask are there any other products worth looking into for the removal of very stubborn water stains ? I would be grateful and don't expect a how to guide btw :~) Thanks again for advice

 

[kevinc250]

Thanks so the reply much appreciated - can i ask are there any other products worth looking into for the removal of very stubborn water stains ? I would be grateful and don't expect a how to guide btw :~) Thanks again for advice

the stains you posted first john are not so much water stains but, more biological and the cell walls would have a film of fat surrounding them to keep them from infections etc, hypo won't touch them as you've found but sodium hydroxide will as it breaks the fat walls down and kills the cells, pretty basic explanation there if i'm honest.

erm, as a way to explain this is, do you have some bleach from the supermarket under the sink etc?, if so just put a bit on your fingers-don't worry it won't kill you but do this and then put your fingers under a running tap, it will feel very slippery, thats the hydroxide turning the fat or oil on your skin into soap its breaking down the oil or fat and working its magic, for your job in paticular i'd be using benz lightning wash as its just easier than mixing hydroxide and hypo together and probably cheaper in the long run, benz stuff has the reputation from people who don't know any different as a very posh or expensive form of hypo where in fact its miles away from that, the expense comes from the amount of hydroxide plus the surfactant its way way miles away from hypo and more suited to the issues you have with that home.

hope this helps you, i can go into depth with this if you'd like 

kevin

 

[Pjj]

the stains you posted first john are not so much water stains but, more biological and the cell walls would have a film of fat surrounding them to keep them from infections etc, hypo won't touch them as you've found but sodium hydroxide will as it breaks the fat walls down and kills the cells, pretty basic explanation there if i'm honest.

erm, as a way to explain this is, do you have some bleach from the supermarket under the sink etc?, if so just put a bit on your fingers-don't worry it won't kill you but do this and then put your fingers under a running tap, it will feel very slippery, thats the hydroxide turning the fat or oil on your skin into soap its breaking down the oil or fat and working its magic, for your job in paticular i'd be using benz lightning wash as its just easier than mixing hydroxide and hypo together and probably cheaper in the long run, benz stuff has the reputation from people who don't know any different as a very posh or expensive form of hypo where in fact its miles away from that, the expense comes from the amount of hydroxide plus the surfactant its way way miles away from hypo and more suited to the issues you have with that home.

hope this helps you, i can go into depth with this if you'd like 

kevin

Hi Kevin , @kevinc250 I find this a fascinating subject and you are far more knowledgeable than me on this but what you say about putting household bleach on your fingers and it going slippery I find exactly the same thing happens with dairy hypochlorite, I would never want to disagree with you but having used Benz lightning cleanse on a few jobs I have found the results no different to using normal dairy hypochlorite that’s less than a 1/3 of the price , now Ime not worried about the cost and want to do the job to the best of my ability but just can not justify using Benz as the results are no better , we have recently done 12 houses in the same road some using Benz and some dairy hypo speed of the jobs and the finish and amount of product used we very similar no noticeable difference, Ime just interested as to why we have found this to be the case ?? I don’t mind spending money for a better or safer job but at £68 a drum I cannot see any difference to a drum of £12 hypo , your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated. 

 

[kevinc250]

Hi Kevin , @kevinc250 I find this a fascinating subject and you are far more knowledgeable than me on this but what you say about putting household bleach on your fingers and it going slippery I find exactly the same thing happens with dairy hypochlorite, I would never want to disagree with you but having used Benz lightning cleanse on a few jobs I have found the results no different to using normal dairy hypochlorite that’s less than a 1/3 of the price , now Ime not worried about the cost and want to do the job to the best of my ability but just can not justify using Benz as the results are no better , we have recently done 12 houses in the same road some using Benz and some dairy hypo speed of the jobs and the finish and amount of product used we very similar no noticeable difference, Ime just interested as to why we have found this to be the case ?? I don’t mind spending money for a better or safer job but at £68 a drum I cannot see any difference to a drum of £12 hypo , your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated. 

hi paul, dairy hypo has a little bit of hydroxide mixed in it, this is because it helps to keep the hypo "more fresh" its purpose is to seperate atoms etc to give a longer shelf life i'm keeping it a pretty basic explanation here but that would be why you would feel that slip when your hands are wet, 

i think you have it quite lucky where you are near the coast with salty air must kill off everything barring the red and green alghi,whereas up north we don't have that, i know of only one header stone that has red alghi and has had that for nearly ten years it can't colonise any further due to the green and black alghi taking over so its just stuck to being on that lonely  header stone,

simply put i would love some of the jobs you have in cornwall up here and yes just hypo would do the job very well on those homes but, because of the different climate and conditions up here, (more pollution) we need a bit more as there are more things to consider hence i opt for the benz as it works for the alghi i have to remove and sometimes carbon.

i take it john could well be more inland than you are?.

i understand why you feel the benz being no better than what you are using now and its more likely in most cases you just don't need that extra bit of hydroxide unless you need to use it it on wood then thats, where it would give very good results for you.

 

[Pjj]

hi paul, dairy hypo has a little bit of hydroxide mixed in it, this is because it helps to keep the hypo "more fresh" its purpose is to seperate atoms etc to give a longer shelf life i'm keeping it a pretty basic explanation here but that would be why you would feel that slip when your hands are wet, 

i think you have it quite lucky where you are near the coast with salty air must kill off everything barring the red and green alghi,whereas up north we don't have that, i know of only one header stone that has red alghi and has had that for nearly ten years it can't colonise any further due to the green and black alghi taking over so its just stuck to being on that lonely  header stone,

simply put i would love some of the jobs you have in cornwall up here and yes just hypo would do the job very well on those homes but, because of the different climate and conditions up here, (more pollution) we need a bit more as there are more things to consider hence i opt for the benz as it works for the alghi i have to remove and sometimes carbon.

i take it john could well be more inland than you are?.

i understand why you feel the benz being no better than what you are using now and its more likely in most cases you just don't need that extra bit of hydroxide unless you need to use it it on wood then thats, where it would give very good results for you.

John is about 35 miles away in Newquay area so also has a lot of costal stuff , thanks for your observations we mainly have , black, red, green , algi on walls and orange stuff on roofs the orange is difficult to kill off with hypo and bio but I have found with both products after a few months it does come off the roof . 

 

[Dave B]

the stains you posted first john are not so much water stains but, more biological and the cell walls would have a film of fat surrounding them to keep them from infections etc, hypo won't touch them as you've found but sodium hydroxide will as it breaks the fat walls down and kills the cells, pretty basic explanation there if i'm honest.

erm, as a way to explain this is, do you have some bleach from the supermarket under the sink etc?, if so just put a bit on your fingers-don't worry it won't kill you but do this and then put your fingers under a running tap, it will feel very slippery, thats the hydroxide turning the fat or oil on your skin into soap its breaking down the oil or fat and working its magic, for your job in paticular i'd be using benz lightning wash as its just easier than mixing hydroxide and hypo together and probably cheaper in the long run, benz stuff has the reputation from people who don't know any different as a very posh or expensive form of hypo where in fact its miles away from that, the expense comes from the amount of hydroxide plus the surfactant its way way miles away from hypo and more suited to the issues you have with that home.

hope this helps you, i can go into depth with this if you'd like 

kevin

That is called saponification and is why your hands feel so soapy when using it.

 

[DeLaCruz]

Thanks for all the help with this one @kevinc250 and @Pjj - question for you kevin where did you gain your scientific knowledge of softwashing - are you self taught or learn it elsewhere ? Thanks again for all the help

 

[kevinc250]

John is about 35 miles away in Newquay area so also has a lot of costal stuff , thanks for your observations we mainly have , black, red, green , algi on walls and orange stuff on roofs the orange is difficult to kill off with hypo and bio but I have found with both products after a few months it does come off the roof . 

whats the orange stuff paul?, sounds like a funghi maybe?

 

[Pjj]

whats the orange stuff paul?, sounds like a funghi maybe?

Hears a picture but not very good this was about  month after applying bens bio it looks yellow now as it’s dying  but was bright orange we get a lot of this on roofs . Very difficult to remove . Think it’s a type of liken 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Aye, there's fifty types of lichen out there and half a dozen on that photo.