spots again damb it

[Diamond geezer]

yea sots when I first started year ago,got to grips better now, sept some properties spot stillI Ive thought maybe iam not cleaning frames enough on em. should I use hogs hair brush on em,or tfr em so I can clean em quicker further down the road please

 

[Part Timer]

If they weren't spotting then now they are you are either not rinsing enough or your water isn't pure enough.

 

[Diamond geezer]

hi Grand master.Point taken thanks But if spoting was there to begin with and still present now better scrubbing brush tfr or leave frames alone?Also is it possible to make frames better? some are really old and milky some ,not that bad others new and perfect..what can I reasonably expect please

 

[doug atkinson]

I found a few houses the windows always spotted no matter how you rinse or scrub. What I found the seals were coated with some sort of oil which was causing the spotting.

 

[Part Timer]

You said that they spotted at the start, fairly common, but you had got on top of it. Then this month they started to spot again. If you've been cleaning above the frames, the frames and glass all the time and now they have started to spot again then, in my experience, you are either not rinsing enough or your TDS has gone up.

If they have always spotted and you are doing the job properly with a low TDS then the seals are probably perished and very little, apart from drying them, you can do.

 

[Diamond geezer]

Hi thanks for your responces.sorry may have mislead you unintetionaly,Yea windows have been cleaned from beginning probably spoty then, and still spoty, prob not so much though.and  months (not a full year) tds ok cause other jobs ok,plus measured 4 5 well below 10 Where should I go from here scrub em or leave em thanks

 

[P4dstar]

Hi thanks for your responces.sorry may have mislead you unintetionaly,Yea windows have been cleaned from beginning probably spoty then, and still spoty, prob not so much though.and  months (not a full year) tds ok cause other jobs ok,plus measured 4 5 well below 10 Where should I go from here scrub em or leave em thanks

If you're getting spotting at 4 or 5 then the water isn't pure enough. 10 is way too high. I have an RO with double DI. I change the resin and flip them round when I can't get 0 anymore. Don't assume other jobs are fine, other customers may just not care or have noticed.

It depends where the spots are. If they are randomly dotted all over the glass then your water isn't pure enough. If they are in a straight line coming from the frame then its dirt from the frame that is causing the issue.

I would suggest you need to clean all the frames, then go back around and clean the glass. Just as a one off but it might be an idea to do this on first cleans. After that the frame should be clean enough that it wont cause you issues anymore. Keep a cloth with you and wipe the top of the frames before you clean the glass.

 

[adamangler]

The first thing to do is make sure your water is zero tds then at least you can rule that out if it still happens.

I can't actually believe you have not thought of this to be honest.

Come on mate wake up

 

[RyeCleanLiam]

I don’t actually agree with the other posters about your water being 4 or 5 ppm. I used to be fussy like that and it always had to be 000 never more than 001. I’ve relaxed over time and last month I was using water at 010 before I changed it. Checked loads of windows after they’d dried not a single issue. I think we over fuss with our water tbh, that being said I still normally wouldn’t go above 5 still.

There are some Windows though that will spot no matter what, just in certain areas where Frames or seals have gone. I have personally found an over the top rinse bar has helped me with this issue, it just gives everything a better rinse down.

 

[P4dstar]

I don’t actually agree with the other posters about your water being 4 or 5 ppm. I used to be fussy like that and it always had to be 000 never more than 001. I’ve relaxed over time and last month I was using water at 010 before I changed it. Checked loads of windows after they’d dried not a single issue. I think we over fuss with our water tbh, that being said I still normally wouldn’t go above 5 still.

There are some Windows though that will spot no matter what, just in certain areas where Frames or seals have gone. I have personally found an over the top rinse bar has helped me with this issue, it just gives everything a better rinse down.

It’s not fussy it’s the recommended process mate. I personally like to keep my water at 000 but this chap has issues with spotting, one of the first things to do is try with pure water. There are lots of posts on this forum about how high you can let your TDS go before changing the resin but when someone has an issue with spotting the recommendation is always the same, try with 000 pure and see if it’s any different first.

 

[Bart90]

The first thing to do is make sure your water is zero tds then at least you can rule that out if it still happens.

I can't actually believe you have not thought of this to be honest.

Come on mate wake up

C'mon Adam, to be fair we all miss the obvious sometimes. I remember once i was stuck after doing a resin change; after DI 1 i was getting 2ppm and after DI 2 with new resin was getting 4ppm; i'd fitted the hoses to the in/out the wrong way but needed someone on here to tell me!  

 

[Iron Giant]

hi Grand master.Point taken thanks But if spoting was there to begin with and still present now better scrubbing brush tfr or leave frames alone?Also is it possible to make frames better? some are really old and milky some ,not that bad others new and perfect..what can I reasonably expect please





9

Ultimately is about technique if you are through enough on a first clean and maintain that standard at each following clean then you shouldn't have any issues with 99.9% of windows providing you are rinsing well enough and using 000ppm pure water, In a soft water area you can sometimes get away with a  tds reading of 4-5 but in a hard water area you can have issues, also you say some frames are milky on these frames you need a different approach to ensure perfect results. 

We can't give you all the answers as some jobs need eyes on and this is how we all learn on a daily basis as we come up against various challenges on our own rounds. 

 

[spruce]

Hi thanks for your responces.sorry may have mislead you unintetionaly,Yea windows have been cleaned from beginning probably spoty then, and still spoty, prob not so much though.and  months (not a full year) tds ok cause other jobs ok,plus measured 4 5 well below 10 Where should I go from here scrub em or leave em thanks

I've posted this before. I filled a backpack with pure water and added tap water to see at what tds my windows started to spot. I found tiny spots on the glass in low level early morning sunshine at 4ppm. Would a customer notice? Probably not, but for me that's not the point. But for me I wouldn't let the water go above 1 before I changed resin.

I'm intrigued where this figure of 10 came from. It just seemed to appear on the forums a long time ago with a flippant comment someone made who had only been wfp for a short while.

 

[P4dstar]

 
I've posted this before. I filled a backpack with pure water and added tap water to see at what tds my windows started to spot. I found tiny spots on the glass in low level early morning sunshine at 4ppm. Would a customer notice? Probably not, but for me that's not the point. But for me I wouldn't let the water go above 1 before I changed resin.
 
I'm intrigued where this figure of 10 came from. It just seemed to appear on the forums a long time ago with a flippant comment someone made who had only been wfp for a short while.
 
 

I imagine it’s something to do with rain water being 10 TDS (ish) we’re all happy to work in a bit of rain so I assume it grew from that perhaps. You’re right though Spruce, it will all depend on the conditions you’re cleaning in. If the sun is beaming down on the glass then the dirt will dry to it. In rain I imagine working with 4/5 TDS wouldn’t make a difference.


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[CHWS]

Some of my own house windows no matter how much they are rinsed with 000 water they will look absolutely spotless. Once the sun comes you can see the odd spot here and there if you are really up close and looking 

 

[adamangler]

C'mon Adam, to be fair we all miss the obvious sometimes. I remember once i was stuck after doing a resin change; after DI 1 i was getting 2ppm and after DI 2 with new resin was getting 4ppm; i'd fitted the hoses to the in/out the wrong way but needed someone on here to tell me!  

yes my reply was a bit harsh but

If you have been cleaning windows months with spotting and your tds isnt zero then surely the most logical thing to do is at least rule it out by trying it at zero

Im not one for letting my tds rise, i do work with it above on occasion but only when ive forgot to check it and its crept up. The water in my tank is 002 at the minute, i checked it earlier... im confident i can work with it and not leave spots but i also changed my resin as soon as i noticed it.

Im not saying theres anything wrong with cleaning at 2,3,4 if you want, if you find it doesnt cause a problem then why not, but if it does it should be the first place you look.

Personally id rather just use 000 then at least i know ive done a lll i can and if i get any problems its operator error. 

 

[spruce]

Some of my own house windows no matter how much they are rinsed with 000 water they will look absolutely spotless. Once the sun comes you can see the odd spot here and there if you are really up close and looking 

I'm sure there is always going to be the odd mark and spot here and there. I would say that the level of service you provide its probably down to whats acceptable by the customer.

We found a few new customers went to great lengths to check the quality of our cleans to begin with, especially if they were dubious of our cleaning system. As time has gone on they begin to trust that we will do a job to their standard of acceptance. My personal goal is to strive to exceed those expectations by enough of a margin that will make the customer happy but will also make commercial sense for me providing that service.

I don't want to be slowly pushing the boundaries lower and lower over time of what an acceptable clean is.

 

[Part Timer]

I've posted this before. I filled a backpack with pure water and added tap water to see at what tds my windows started to spot. I found tiny spots on the glass in low level early morning sunshine at 4ppm. Would a customer notice? Probably not, but for me that's not the point. But for me I wouldn't let the water go above 1 before I changed resin.

I'm intrigued where this figure of 10 came from. It just seemed to appear on the forums a long time ago with a flippant comment someone made who had only been wfp for a short while.

I seem to recall that Pure Freedom said to me when I bought the system that 8ppm was fine.

 

[spruce]

yes my reply was a bit harsh but

If you have been cleaning windows months with spotting and your tds isnt zero then surely the most logical thing to do is at least rule it out by trying it at zero

Im not one for letting my tds rise, i do work with it above on occasion but only when ive forgot to check it and its crept up. The water in my tank is 002 at the minute, i checked it earlier... im confident i can work with it and not leave spots but i also changed my resin as soon as i noticed it.

Im not saying theres anything wrong with cleaning at 2,3,4 if you want, if you find it doesnt cause a problem then why not, but if it does it should be the first place you look.

Personally id rather just use 000 then at least i know ive done a lll i can and if i get any problems its operator error. 

I personally think that a lot a this is a multitiered topic. I think we could get away with a lot more in winter than we can in summer, especially when most of our customers leave for work in the dark and come home in the dark in winter. 

It also depends on what level of service some cleaners believe they can get away with.

For me its all about looking after my reputation. Each window we clean is our advertising board and most of the work we have has come from customer recommendations. I can't afford to jeopardize that. If I make a mistake and have on an odd occassion missed a window accidently, then I will put that right asap.

 

[Tuffers]

To be honest, some glass comes up great and some comes up cr4p. When I cleaned my old house windows they looked terrible when the sun shone on them, I thought I'd done a decent job but the glass was cr4p even though it was relatively new. The glass in the house I live in now comes up spotless. I've got an estate I do that's a new build. The estate looks like it was built by one builder but it was actually built by two. The one half of the estate the windows clean beautiful but I dread the other half of the estate as the frames have a wood ingrained effect, they run from the sealant where the glass meets the frame and are really hydrophobic.

At OP, use 000PPM and rinse well and see how you go.

 

[spruce]

I seem to recall that Pure Freedom said to me when I bought the system that 8ppm was fine.

They probably did and meant it as they have found in their experience they can do that in Grimsby. The pure from my r/o is 3ppm atm. I had a supplier tell me that I didn't need resin until that figure rose above 4ppm. So even the suppliers don't have a figure. I sure its going to depend on the composition of your water. If your are in a high calcium area, then 4ppm is going to comprise of more calcium than someone in an area of low calcium. Their 4ppm will be made up of other minerals which may be more tollerant to not spotting.

I also believe that the 'quality' of glass in the frames is also a factor. Hydrophobic glass will be more prone to spotting than hydrophillic glass imho because hydrophobic glass tends to hold water on the glass as droplets.