Starter Equipment questions

[Aphanopelma]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking on here for the last year, trying to gain as much information as possible..and there is a lot of it.

If about to make the jump and get the equipment I need to start wfp, I'm currently gardening and over the last 6 months gained a few window jobs that I do trad, mainly for existing garden customers.

I have 2 questions, first what pole to start with? I'm thinking the slx27 but I'm not sure if the size will be overkill to start out or I should go with a 22?

Second question I'd will a 11litre Di cope with my water? My TDS seems to fluctuate between 180 and 208. 

I have about 1k to invest in getting started, not a massive budget so I want to spend it as wisely as possible.

Thanks for any help.. Jay

 

[Part Timer]

You will get around 1500 litres of water before you will need to change the resin. For a cheap start up pole I'd buy the CLX 22' with extension 6, circa £220, and use the rest to buy a cheapish R/O and a backpack with trolley.

 

[Aphanopelma]

Thanks for the reply part timer, any recommendations on a RO unit that would be suitable? 

 

[Part Timer]

There is plenty of information already on the site. I've got a van system so have no experience with 450 gpd R / O's 

 

[Guest]

450 Gpd  from daqua 

 

[Pjj]

The type of ro system will depend on the amount of water you will be using , if you can afford it a 40/40 is a good ro unit , depending on your water pressure you may need a booster pump 

 

[Daniel Mc]

For my pennies worth, Id get the slx over the clx.  Ive window cleaned for 20 odd years now and the key to keeping going is buying equipment thats going to cost you the least PHYSICALLY rather than FINANCIALLY.  You only need a few hours lost with a bad back or neck strain to have cost yourself the difference between the clx and the slx.

I personally would recommend an RO system over just purely resin.  In the long run it will be cheaper.  There is plenty of advice on the forum already over the best stuff to get.  Doug at daqua is always a good place to start.

The Gardiner backpack mounted on a trolley is a good start because even though Im sure you will eventually be operating a van mounted system, it will always be handy to have the backpack for little jobs and hard to reach places.

Hope the transition from gardening to window cleaning proves fruitful for you, welcome to the world of window cleaning!  

Just a point, you are def doing the right thing being on here-great bunch of windies who are always happy to help.

 

[Part Timer]

You only need a few hours lost with a bad back or neck strain to have cost yourself the difference between the clx and the slx.

I can fully appreciate what you are saying but we are talking about a newbie swinging an extra 150gms on half shifts, not someone doing 40 hours. I and my son use a CLX 27 with a 45cm fully flocked brush and a SLX 25 with a 45cm Dupont. The latter is far lighter and also slower so basically energy wise no difference. 

You're better off buying cheaper poles, that last longer, and have 2 poles rather than 1. On your example he should be buying an extreme for £500+. Unfortunately he's got a £1k budget not a £3k one that would enable him to get the best of all worlds. 

 

[Daniel Mc]

I can fully appreciate what you are saying but we are talking about a newbie swinging an extra 150gms on half shifts, not someone doing 40 hours. I and my son use a CLX 27 with a 45cm fully flocked brush and a SLX 25 with a 45cm Dupont. The latter is far lighter and also slower so basically energy wise no difference. 

You're better off buying cheaper poles, that last longer, and have 2 poles rather than 1. On your example he should be buying an extreme for £500+. Unfortunately he's got a £1k budget not a £3k one that would enable him to get the best of all worlds. 

I get what you are saying part timer - hence my comparison between the clx and the slx to start with, the more expensive poles are for down the line yes, but to start I think that the relatively small price difference between the clx and the slx makes the slx worth the extra-but that’s only in my experience.

 

[Iron Giant]

Many moons ago well 11 years ago when I switched I had a glass fibre pole then switched to hybrid pole a bit like a CLX and stuck with those for a number of years without issue they were decent robust poles more so for someone who never looked after poles, weight doesn't really make a difference in the early years and won't be a cause of a back injury I use an Xtreme-22  and have been off work since Thursday with back problems but that's another not for this thread. 

One thing I will say is a 22ft pole is good all round daily pole you will reach most windows even some dormer windows on new build houses and 3 storey townhouses which are new builds I am 5ft and can manage just fine, so unless you are in an area were you are targetting higher work with houses with veluxs on the main house roof you don't need a 27ft pole. 

 

[Davy G]

For my pennies worth, Id get the slx over the clx.  Ive window cleaned for 20 odd years now and the key to keeping going is buying equipment thats going to cost you the least PHYSICALLY rather than FINANCIALLY.  You only need a few hours lost with a bad back or neck strain to have cost yourself the difference between the clx and the slx.

I personally would recommend an RO system over just purely resin.  In the long run it will be cheaper.  There is plenty of advice on the forum already over the best stuff to get.  Doug at daqua is always a good place to start.

The Gardiner backpack mounted on a trolley is a good start because even though Im sure you will eventually be operating a van mounted system, it will always be handy to have the backpack for little jobs and hard to reach places.

Hope the transition from gardening to window cleaning proves fruitful for you, welcome to the world of window cleaning!  

Just a point, you are def doing the right thing being on here-great bunch of windies who are always happy to help.

I reckon this advice is pretty spot on. I started with cheaper poles, I found whatever wìndow I tried to get to it was like the pole was refusing to have anything to do with it, whipping to one side and then straight past it to the other side (like it was saying, I ain't going there!) . The frustration and the weight used to annoy the life out of me. I now use the SLX 22. Point it a wìndow and it's almost like I can hear it say, 'oh! That's where you want me to go, ok, let's do this. ?

 

[Aphanopelma]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I'm now pretty much set on slx22.. just need to figure out what brushes to order with it.

Won't be able to afford a 40/40 at this point.. will the 450gpd from daqua do a similar job, and will it bring my TDS down to 0 from 200, or will I need a Di canister aswell.. I'm going for a pair of 200l water butts for now and fill 25l drums in in the van.

 

[Davy G]

Asking for advice on brush choice recommendations will probably get you a whole lot of sometimes conflicting opinions. Nothing wrong with that. My choice, for all my work is the same one brush and jet configuration: Gardiner SLX 22, Medium Mixed Sill Brush, fitted with black 100 degree fan jets. I use them on fast flow. I love the speed of rinse and I also love the fizzing sound they produce, I just know that they really do the business when you gain confidence and learn to trust them. I also save a lot of water in comparison to the red fan jets I used to use. I control the flow with a tap clipped to a quick release Caribeener on the left side of my belt. Yesterday my son and I left the house at 9am, we cleaned 31 houses of various sizes, some quite spread out across the town. We were back and finished shortly before 4pm, having used about 600 litres of water. We didn't stop for a break. We usually don't stop as we prefer to keep the momentum going and get finished. We don't often do that many houses in a day but these are out of our normal round so we try to get them done in one hit. We were tired but not wrecked when we finished. 

 

[spruce]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I'm now pretty much set on slx22.. just need to figure out what brushes to order with it.

Won't be able to afford a 40/40 at this point.. will the 450gpd from daqua do a similar job, and will it bring my TDS down to 0 from 200, or will I need a Di canister aswell.. I'm going for a pair of 200l water butts for now and fill 25l drums in in the van.

Yes, it will but much slower though. But it will provide you with enough water as a single operator. No r/o will bring your tap water down to zero. A standard r/o will remove 97 to 98% of the dissolved minerals in your water. Your resin will polish the rest off to zero.

Those 450gpd r/o's usually use one of the housings reserved as a di vessel. Its too small and we would suggest you look at a bigger di vessel. Mine is a 7 liter one which I fill with 6 liters.

If you can, try to invest in a good used 600 or 1000 liter IBC tank. These are big enough to give you a buffer of water. This may seem overkill to begin with but an IBC tank won't cost you much. In the winter we found our 450gpd would take about 36 hours to fill a 1000 liter IBC tank with about 800 liters of pure. In summer with warmer water it would take around 28 hours.

 

[MikeL]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking on here for the last year, trying to gain as much information as possible..and there is a lot of it.

If about to make the jump and get the equipment I need to start wfp, I'm currently gardening and over the last 6 months gained a few window jobs that I do trad, mainly for existing garden customers.

I have 2 questions, first what pole to start with? I'm thinking the slx27 but I'm not sure if the size will be overkill to start out or I should go with a 22?

Second question I'd will a 11litre Di cope with my water? My TDS seems to fluctuate between 180 and 208. 

I have about 1k to invest in getting started, not a massive budget so I want to spend it as wisely as possible.

Thanks for any help.. Jay

When I switched to wfp i used DI only for the first year or so and seemed to be constantly buying bags of resin at £80 or so each. I just bought a cheap RO system from eBay and although my water bill (I’m on a meter) has gone up its defínintly saved money overall. My TDS is around the 150 mark. 

As commented I’d recommend the slx over the clx and then just choose the appropriate size for the work you’ll be doing

 

[spruce]

When I switched to wfp i used DI only for the first year or so and seemed to be constantly buying bags of resin at £80 or so each. I just bought a cheap RO system from eBay and although my water bill (I’m on a meter) has gone up its defínintly saved money overall. My TDS is around the 150 mark. 

As commented I’d recommend the slx over the clx and then just choose the appropriate size for the work you’ll be doing

It was once suggested by a supplier in our early days of wfp that the cutoff point between di and r/o for someone on a water meter was between 100 and 120ppm of tap water. But again this isn't a hard and fast rule as it depends on how much water you use a week and your focus on what's important to you as a window cleaner and what's not.

I see the potential for Spotless Water to become a popular supplier in the future for those who find it easier not to bother with processing their own water.

 

[Den]

If funds can be stretch go for a slx 18 and slx25 that will cover approx 95% of residential jobs, I’m now using a extreme 18 for 85%to 90% for my work and slx22 and a occasionally slx25 with extensions 6 to 9 for the rest, my next purchase will be an extreme 25 to replace the slx’s

 

[Aphanopelma]

Thanks again everyone, I've decided to go with the slx22 pole and the Gardiner's backpack. I'm going to order a 450gpd ro unit, also considering getting the 11l Di and resin from Gardiner when I place my order. I can get 1000l clean IBC locally for about £50, so the idea is to have the Ro unit filling the IBC. Then have the Di unit in the van and use a pump from the IBC through the Di to fill the tubs in the van.. not sure if this is over kill but my thinking is that if I'm ever caught out I can produce pure water in site with the Di in the van. Also will the pressure from a submersible pump be enough to push through the Di tank?

All this will eat up most of my budget but I'm thinking it should set me up with the basics and leave me some left over for some shirts and advertising..

 

[Davy G]

I'd have the RO going to a DI and then into the IBC. I'd process everything at the base tank. I think you will be unnecessarily complicating things for yourself doing it the way you're planning. Reasons for my suggestion : You would then be doing the complete process independent of the van. You would have the ability to have 1000 litres of finished water stored ready to use, which would be handy when you have the inevitable occasional problems with equipment. It could give you two or three days stored water to allow you to keep earning a living while sorting problems. You would be extremely unlikely to be caught out this way. When finances allow I'd fit a second DI this would allow you to get the most out of your resin. The first one would take the tds down while doing most of the work and the second one would do the final polish. These would be swapped around when the readings start to climb. You would change the resin fill one at a time put the newer fill last in line. The cost would be no more than the way you're planning, as far as I can see. I'd always be thinking, what is the easiest, quickest, economical, most reliable way of doing everything to do with the business. I don't think a transfer pump will be suitable for the DI. They are designed to transfer large volumes of water, not low volume high pressure. 

Hope this makes sense to you. ?