Static set up help.

[spruce]

Booster pump all fitted. Getting 2.6 litres a min pure. Not messed about with the waste valve yet. That's 6 hours ish to do 1000 litres. 

Clarke 240cbm 

Bought the adapters from screwfix.

Used 15mm water pipe from bathroom above garage. Connected a full bore boiler fix with handle above pump. That's my on and off. 

Bought a 1" to 1/2" reducer in brass

Bought a 12" to 15mm reducer in brass push fit for Clarke pump. 

Loads of ptfe connecting it all up. 

Pack of 12mm to 20mm jubilee clips. 

Went to an aquatic shop and bought a 1" to hose pipe adapter for outlet as need hose pipe on this.  

The plastic attachments that comes on the outlet of the clarke no good. Removed all of it and it left a 1" metal hole.

Bought 30 m roll of high pressure black hose 10 bar  for £20 from Amazon. Few more hose locks and adapters. 

Fitted the pure freedom float solenoid cut out. Drilled a hole in top of ibc 12mm hole. 

Put hand in. Lifted float. Water went off. Few mins later clarke pump auto cut out. 

Regarding noise of pump. Can hardly hear it. Does hum but not load at all. 

Thanks spruce for advice. Appreciate it mate. 

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I'm glad you got it sorted.

Another question that someone else asked regarding these boosters if I may please. How much noise do these pumps make when running? In other words, is it noisey enough for the neighbours to complain if you run it in the evening?

Thanks

 

[John v]

Can hardly hear it. Yes it hums but wont annoy anyone. Think it says 70db on side. 

Its below our bedroom so I'll let you know if we hear it. Not done a full 1000 ibc fill yet as want to be near it when water hits float. Make sure it turns off. 

 

[AGlassAct]

In normal operation the Clarke pump (and wortex) are pretty quiet, they get a bit loud when someone turns a tap on in the house or when demand in the street restricts the flow to mine - it’s no where near as loud as the water genie/genie in a box, that screams when the sediment filter starts to restrict the water flow or I flush the loo!!! My booster set up is outside in an insulated box (similar to yours spruce) so as soon as you close the front door you can’t hear it. 

What have you done about shutting the waste from the RO off John v - or have you been lucky in that the flow meter detects the decrease in flow enough to shut the main water feed off?

 

[John v]

Bit unsure about what u mean. Shutting the waste off

I'm new to all this ro stuff. 

I've lifted float in ibc and it turns water off and then not long after the pump senses no water and turns of automatically so not to be damaged 

 

[spruce]

Bit unsure about what u mean. Shutting the waste off

I'm new to all this ro stuff. 

I've lifted float in ibc and it turns water off and then not long after the pump senses no water and turns of automatically so not to be damaged 

Then its working fine. ?

 

[John v]

Hi spruce. 

I'm filling the ibc today with booster pump working. Thing is my in tds has jumped to 19 and out 0. My tap tds is 120 so that's a bad performing membrane. 

I'm wondering if I've damaged the membrane thise few weeks back when i didn't really understand how to flush and i made the mistake of flushing thru the di tank into the membrane. After that mess up I flushed it for ages the proper way. But haven't used it again until today. My change over to wfp is next thurs hopefully as van goes in tomorrow to be kitted out. 

Regarding the brodex twin 4040 set up should I get the window cleaning warehouse to separate them and use just one. 

They want to replace both membranes even tho 3 years old they have never been used due to last owner using their 4500 gallon tank in their unit. 

Will these membranes be damaged as 3 years old never used apart from I expect brodex setting them up. 

Thanks. John. 

 

[Jango]

John V

hope everything goes well for you. We did traditional for 25 years. Swapped over to WFP 2 years ago. Once you get your head round everything it’s brill. 

Ive never looked back, wished we had moved over years ago. 

Lovely helpers on this forum. 

 

[Part Timer]

If your membranes haven't been used for 2 weeks there's a small chance they've been damaged. Let alone 3 years 

 

[John v]

Thanks for replies lads. Get the van back tomorrow or wed after the fit out. 

Decided not to use the 2 4040 ro's and window cleaning warehouse is setting just one up. 

I dont know what extra value it has having 2 4040 ro's apart from being expensive. The warehouse said it will fill quicker maybe 40% more with twin 4040 membranes 

I've set up the booster pump and filled my 1000 litre ibc in about 6 and half hours. 

But I do think in my really early days of getting it I damaged the membrane by flushing it wrong. 

Initially tap water went in 120 ish. 

Tds meter read in about 2 or 3

Out 0

Now it reads 120 ish

Tds meter in 19 or 20

Out 0. 

Think I need a new membrane. Or I'm doing something wrong. 

Membrane for static is a 4021 with 2 large ish filters. 

D day for work is thurs if everything ready. Nervous as hell

 

[Iron Giant]

I am assuming that after the R/O and before the DI the reading is 19-20ppm and your DI vessel is bringing it down to 000ppm, with a tap tds of 120ppm your R/O on it's it own should be producing 000ppm or very near as 2-3ppm, as for the cleaning warehouse make sure you are getting the correct membrane have a look at these specs https://windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/products/high-volume-membranes?_pos=1&_sid=fc8722715&_ss=r as they both require different pressures for optimum performance output they also sell a cheaper one as well, the extra spend now will save you money longterm and the Axeon membranes are far better

 

[spruce]

Thanks for replies lads. Get the van back tomorrow or wed after the fit out. 

Decided not to use the 2 4040 ro's and window cleaning warehouse is setting just one up. 

I dont know what extra value it has having 2 4040 ro's apart from being expensive. The warehouse said it will fill quicker maybe 40% more with twin 4040 membranes 

I've set up the booster pump and filled my 1000 litre ibc in about 6 and half hours. 

But I do think in my really early days of getting it I damaged the membrane by flushing it wrong. 

Initially tap water went in 120 ish. 

Tds meter read in about 2 or 3

Out 0

Now it reads 120 ish

Tds meter in 19 or 20

Out 0. 

Think I need a new membrane. Or I'm doing something wrong. 

Membrane for static is a 4021 with 2 large ish filters. 

D day for work is thurs if everything ready. Nervous as hell

The important thing with membranes is the pure to waste ratio when filtering water. With a low input of 120ppm you should get pure from the membrane at around 3ppm which the resin in the di vessel will polish off. To get that your membrane has to be working properly and you need to have set your pure to waste ratio correctly.

When producing water you need around 45% of your tap input as pure and around 55% waste. The waste has to run at the same time to flush away the impurities your membrane is removing.

You must never close your waste valve completely when filtering water.

Flushing a membrane is simply opening the waste valve fully and letting the tap water flow directly to waste. You need to switch your booster pump off before you flush. Flushing won't damage your membrane.

When flushing you will get a trickle of water out of the pure outlet of the r/o.

If you have then there is the possibility that you have damaged your membrane.

 

[Iron Giant]

The important thing with membranes is the pure to waste ratio when filtering water. With a low input of 120ppm you should get pure from the membrane at around 3ppm which the resin in the di vessel will polish off. To get that your membrane has to be working properly and you need to have set your pure to waste ratio correctly.

When producing water you need around 45% of your tap input as pure and around 55% waste. The waste has to run at the same time to flush away the impurities your membrane is removing.

You must never close your waste valve completely when filtering water.

Flushing a membrane is simply opening the waste valve fully and letting the tap water flow directly to waste. You need to switch your booster pump off before you flush. Flushing won't damage your membrane.

When flushing you will get a trickle of water out of the pure outlet of the r/o.

If you have then there is the possibility that you have damaged your membrane.

I flushed mine with the booster pump on a timer last week for 8 hours, not the first time ?

 

[John v]

Hi and thanks for replies. 

I was originally getting 2 or 3 when I first played with the static set up and made about 150 litres. 

Then I had the flush fiasco and flushed wrong way thru di backwards. 

So I think I've damaged the membrane. 

Regarding waste to pure ratio when I filled the ibc few days ago. If I opened the waste to much the pressure dropped and pure was slower.

The red tap on my pure freedom set up only pressurized when fully closed but there was still a fair amount of waste coming out. It's as if the waste has been set by pure freedom to not allow you to make a mistake fully closing it and it's still open. 

Looks like I'll have to buy a new 4021 membrane. 

I assume u fit and flush it for a while. 

Shall I buy new filters too. 

Thanks. John.  

 

[Pjj]

The important thing with membranes is the pure to waste ratio when filtering water. With a low input of 120ppm you should get pure from the membrane at around 3ppm which the resin in the di vessel will polish off. To get that your membrane has to be working properly and you need to have set your pure to waste ratio correctly.

When producing water you need around 45% of your tap input as pure and around 55% waste. The waste has to run at the same time to flush away the impurities your membrane is removing.

You must never close your waste valve completely when filtering water.

Flushing a membrane is simply opening the waste valve fully and letting the tap water flow directly to waste. You need to switch your booster pump off before you flush. Flushing won't damage your membrane.

When flushing you will get a trickle of water out of the pure outlet of the r/o.

If you have then there is the possibility that you have damaged your membrane.

Why do you need to flush flush with the booster pump off ??? I have always done it with it on as it’s the only way I can get water through the membranes as it has to go through the impellers in the booster pump and the only way to do that is have it running ??  

 

[spruce]

Why do you need to flush flush with the booster pump off ??? I have always done it with it on as it’s the only way I can get water through the membranes as it has to go through the impellers in the booster pump and the only way to do that is have it running ??  

Alex Gardiner had it as a note on his booster pump page when he sold them.

Its all to do with the water regulations that tell us that we aren't allowed to draw more than 12lpm through the water pipe network. If we are getting more than that (ours is 13lpm) this that's ok. But if your flow through the mains tap is say 5lpm then you aren't allowed to draw or suck more than 12lpm of water.

This is where the break tank regulations come into play.

These regulations aren't written for r/o booster pump users. If you are using the booster pump when flushing you could be reducing the flow of water to your neighbours. If you are then they probably wouldn't even notice the trickle of water as its only for a short duration in time. (We are at the end of a water main. If I sucked more water out of our mains then 2 of our neighbours downstream will be effected by it.)

But if this sucking water went on for an extended period of time then this is different and will cause issues; hence the breaker tank.

 

[John v]

Hi. How long should u flush for with or without booster pump on. Before during and after a fill up. 

Also I'll buy a new membrane how long should I flush it for. Costly mistake flushing it wrong way while I was learning. Still learning too.

Spruce. I took your advice and window cleaning  warehouse have disconnected one of the twin membranes on my ro van tank. 

What would of been the advantage of 2 4040 to membranes. They said it approximately boost filling quicker by 40%

Thanks. John. 

 

[spruce]

Hi. How long should u flush for with or without booster pump on. Before during and after a fill up. 

Also I'll buy a new membrane how long should I flush it for. Costly mistake flushing it wrong way while I was learning. Still learning too.

Spruce. I took your advice and window cleaning  warehouse have disconnected one of the twin membranes on my ro van tank. 

What would of been the advantage of 2 4040 to membranes. They said it approximately boost filling quicker by 40%

Thanks. John. 

I'm not the best example when it comes to flushing.

If my membrane gets flushed once every 2 weeks then that's a lot. When I do it its just a quick flush that might last 5 minutes, probably less.

Our water is around the same TDS as yours. If our water was hard and full of calcium then I would flush a little more regularily. Many years ago June from GAPS water told us that we pay to much attention to flushing.

 

[Iron Giant]

I'm not the best example when it comes to flushing.

If my membrane gets flushed once every 2 weeks then that's a lot. When I do it its just a quick flush that might last 5 minutes, probably less.

Our water is around the same TDS as yours. If our water was hard and full of calcium then I would flush a little more regularily. Many years ago June from GAPS water told us that we pay to much attention to flushing.

@doug atkinson told me flushing is more important than some realise ?

 

[spruce]

@doug atkinson told me flushing is more important than some realise ?

As I mentioned I'm not a good example to follow. My 4040 HF5 membrane is over 6 years old and still removing 97% of the dissolved solids in our water. In the early days it was 98%. The previous membranes in my 450gpd were also 6 years old when they had to be replaced. So this sparodic membrane flushing works for me, or should I say done me no harm.

If I was living in Hartlepool where their water is terrible, then I would pay more attention to caring for my membrane. Or I would try to find a unit in Stockton or Billingham where the water quality is better.

One of the things we have to consider when giving advise to others is that we need to cover all bases. It wouldn't harm my membrane to flush it for 5 minutes whenever I fill up and the r/o kicks in. I can understand @doug atkinson saying that flushing is more important than we realise. Making a general statement like that is wise because there is going to be someone from Hartlepool thinking that as Spruce lives near me and he doesn't flush often then I don't need to either.

Doug has also got much more experience than I have as he's involved with people from all over the country; as I said before , what he and others like him have forgotten I've still got to learn and possibly never will.

One of the most important factors for me with regard to membrane care is replacing the carbon block filter on time according to the manufacturers specifications. So when my prefilters (20") have dealt with 75000 liters I change the prefilters. According to Doug its not necessary as there is very little chlorine in our water at times and mainly none most of the time. So my carbon block should last longer than 75k. How much longer? I don't know as I don't know the chlorine situation in my water supply.

(If I look on Northumbrian Water's website under their test sample results that they take all the time, the amount of chlorine in the water is to government regulations. We have the most pure and perfect water from the best water supplier in the country. As I get older I'm getting more and more cynical so I'm not going to be fooled by the figures and stick to the carbon block manufacturers specs which have got to be based on the worse case senarios of chlorine in treated water. (I've never seen a Northumbrain water employee taking water samples from pipes in our area. So I wouldn't be surprised if these samples were taken at the purification plant.) This is my opinion and until someone shows me otherwise, this is the advise I offer as it works for me in practice. If it didn't I'm clever enough (I think) not to get involved with the discussion.)

 

[Pjj]

Alex Gardiner had it as a note on his booster pump page when he sold them.

Its all to do with the water regulations that tell us that we aren't allowed to draw more than 12lpm through the water pipe network. If we are getting more than that (ours is 13lpm) this that's ok. But if your flow through the mains tap is say 5lpm then you aren't allowed to draw or suck more than 12lpm of water.

This is where the break tank regulations come into play.

These regulations aren't written for r/o booster pump users. If you are using the booster pump when flushing you could be reducing the flow of water to your neighbours. If you are then they probably wouldn't even notice the trickle of water as its only for a short duration in time. (We are at the end of a water main. If I sucked more water out of our mains then 2 of our neighbours downstream will be effected by it.)

But if this sucking water went on for an extended period of time then this is different and will cause issues; hence the breaker tank.

Ok yes I see what you mean about over running the supply , ime a bit like you I don’t flush it as often as I should ??? we have a couple of big commercial jobs that we fill up at during the day every 4 weeks and they have goid pressure and  volume so I generally do it there