Update how I’m getting on

[Iron Giant]

once you ve been wfp for a while the last thing you want to be doing is climbing ladders when you dont need to....my ladders just get used for opening gates

Once you've been wfp for a while you'll realise a text is better for locked or bolted gates and bin off carrying ladders ?

 

[Iron Giant]

could be thats how it is in your area ? in ours most everyone does a mix  .Weve  been going several yrs we have 1 water pole worker and 4 on ladder sets [ employees]

Skin flint's by any chance ? also surely under H&S you should be providing the safer method to your employees as it's available 

The way I see it is those that are still half and half or still predominantly trad whilst having wfp are simply bowing down to custys who don't like there windows leaving wet or just don't like wfp, better to hard line convert and keep your employee's safe in the process instead off sending them up a ladder. 

 

[mike007]

Doing it on the ladders or mixing it up with wfp is how many of the established do it in our area 

I wfp upstairs and Trad down...best of both worlds. Only get the ladder off the van for work on 3 properties at the moment.

 

[dazmond]

A common misconception , the "skinflint on the ladders" .We operate legitimately and have always had proper insurances for our employees ,theres no skinflints here!  A couple of years ago at insurance renewal time an insurance bod asked me are you mostly ladders still? i said yes ,he replied good,theres some big claims in the pipeline for water pole employees .Actually an acquaintance of ours closed down the window cleaning side of their biz totally due to something injury related with an employee,i understood they mostly cleaned big hotels water pole .  

i must admit ive had more accidents in 11 years of wfp than 17 years on the ladders!falling over walls and garden furniture while looking up!i bruised my ribs quite badly a few years ago and ive twisted my ankle a few times too....

i did fall off my ladder twice in 17 years...luckily for me i landed on my heels from first floor height and was fine both times...

the problem for me now is lots of my work these days cant be cleaned from a ladder anyway...too high and awkward windows galore!

 

[dazmond]

Once you've been wfp for a while you'll realise a text is better for locked or bolted gates and bin off carrying ladders ?

i think its always handy to have a set of ladders on my van...i need them for the odd job(large domestics with glass roofs,some conny roof cleaning)as well as the odd gate...i do text the majority that have access issues though

 

[spruce]

That’s what I thought but didn’t want to be cheeky to them

if you know what I mean 

You can say anything provided it's said the right way.

" Well the window frames and sills get wet when it rains" can cause no objection and wouldn't be seen as being cheeky.

"Well what happens when it rains? The frames and sills get wet, don't they?" could very well be taken as being cheeky; even worse if it comes across in a tone that makes them sound stupid.

We had an old guy who had just had his wooden window frames repainted. The village idiot did the job who spoke a hole in our customer's head about how wfp was damaging his paintwork and the window frames. This painter runs down wfp to everyone whose window frames he paints. I suggested he got a trad cleaner who would rest his ladders up against his window sills like the cleaner did 15 years before me. He didn't want that so he continued with me. I put up with this for a bit as he used to pay for the lady across the road as well. She died of cancer last year and he has gone into a nursing home now so I no longer have the problem.

In a way it's all rather sad. He wrote a book about his 2 years military training which began in 1945 just after the war had finished. His training was in Egypt and they were transported out to Egypt from Southampton on the Arundel Castle ship converted to a troop carrier. That was the same ship my father travelled back on from Durban to Southampton in 1938. Every 5 years he sailed back to England for business. He was working for the Hollerith Machine Tool company and was transferred out to Durban in 1928. Hollerith Machine Tool company was the forerunner to IBM in Letchworth. The deal was that he would come back every 5 years on a 6 month business trip for product update service training and to see family. He returned to SA toward the end of 1938 where he appears to head up their Johannesburg office. During the war he (well actually his secretary) sent food parcels back to England with chocolate, sugar & butter from Johannesburg.

 

[Iron Giant]

A common misconception , the "skinflint on the ladders" .We operate legitimately and have always had proper insurances for our employees ,theres no skinflints here!  A couple of years ago at insurance renewal time an insurance bod asked me are you mostly ladders still? i said yes ,he replied good,theres some big claims in the pipeline for water pole employees .Actually an acquaintance of ours closed down the window cleaning side of their biz totally due to something injury related with an employee,i understood they mostly cleaned big hotels water pole .  

The point I was making is that providing wfp for all employee's to use ensures their greater safety overall so no ladder falls, wfp can cause some injuries but looking after staff with wfp as I'm sure a few on here do who have multi van op's giving them slx's or xtreme's and overall decent kit also helps I have seen employees of firms with composite poles and really heavy vikan brushes which is asking for trouble

 

[Iron Giant]

i think its always handy to have a set of ladders on my van...i need them for the odd job(large domestics with glass roofs,some conny roof cleaning)as well as the odd gate...i do text the majority that have access issues though

telescopic ladders will do the job though for those odd ones, rather than having a ladder rack and full sized ladders

 

[mike007]

A common misconception , the "skinflint on the ladders" .We operate legitimately and have always had proper insurances for our employees ,theres no skinflints here!  A couple of years ago at insurance renewal time an insurance bod asked me are you mostly ladders still? i said yes ,he replied good,theres some big claims in the pipeline for water pole employees .Actually an acquaintance of ours closed down the window cleaning side of their biz totally due to something injury related with an employee,i understood they mostly cleaned big hotels water pole .  

I am not surprised, at a end of a day I sometimes feel the strain of wfp cleaning upstair windows  that were above extensions etc, so have to be attacked at angles and so putting more strain on the body. What the longer term effects on using wfp long term on some folks bodies will be interesting. And in practice you cannot use correct posture, be in line with the window etc all the time. You will be angling the pole over things at angles.

 

[dazmond]

telescopic ladders will do the job though for those odd ones, rather than having a ladder rack and full sized ladders

absolutely not IMO......they dont look safe to me.....i was watching  squeaky clean dave using one to climb on a flat roof the other day on a youtube clip....the top of the ladder only just reached the edge of the roof...no thanks....i like at least a 2 foot overhang with trade ladders

 

[dazmond]

I am not surprised, at a end of a day I sometimes feel the strain of wfp cleaning upstair windows  that were above extensions etc, so have to be attacked at angles and so putting more strain on the body. What the longer term effects on using wfp long term on some folks bodies will be interesting. And in practice you cannot use correct posture, be in line with the window etc all the time. You will be angling the pole over things at angles.

its easy with xtreme poles,carbon goosenecks and standard xtreme brushes.....i used to get strain using SLX poles and heavier brushes but none at all with the lighter gear....

 

[Chris34]

its easy with xtreme poles,carbon goosenecks and standard xtreme brushes.....i used to get strain using SLX poles and heavier brushes but none at all with the lighter gear....

Does it make that much of a difference though?  I've got an SLX22 and I remember looking at the weights of the Xtreme poles.  I'm not going to look at it now but I remember working out that by removing a section of the SLX22 it would be close to the weight of an extreme pole.  So as an experiment I removed a section for a day [effectively using it as an SLX18]  working houses that wouldn't need the extra length.  Although it was lighter, it was no where near a difference as I thought it would be, I'd say the difference was 'slight difference', it didn't feel like it would make a big difference.

 

[Part Timer]

Does it make that much of a difference though?  I've got an SLX22 and I remember looking at the weights of the Xtreme poles.  I'm not going to look at it now but I remember working out that by removing a section of the SLX22 it would be close to the weight of an extreme pole.  So as an experiment I removed a section for a day [effectively using it as an SLX18]  working houses that wouldn't need the extra length.  Although it was lighter, it was no where near a difference as I thought it would be, I'd say the difference was 'slight difference', it didn't feel like it would make a big difference.

We only use Xtremes on 3 floors and above work. 

 

[Pjj]

Does it make that much of a difference though?  I've got an SLX22 and I remember looking at the weights of the Xtreme poles.  I'm not going to look at it now but I remember working out that by removing a section of the SLX22 it would be close to the weight of an extreme pole.  So as an experiment I removed a section for a day [effectively using it as an SLX18]  working houses that wouldn't need the extra length.  Although it was lighter, it was no where near a difference as I thought it would be, I'd say the difference was 'slight difference', it didn't feel like it would make a big difference.

The extream poles are also a lot stiffer so when working at shallow angles over conservatory roofs etc it’s easier and less weight and less effort needed to scrub 

 

[Chris34]

The extream poles are also a lot stiffer so when working at shallow angles over conservatory roofs etc it’s easier and less weight and less effort needed to scrub 

I can see how it would help with those type of windows, luckily I only have a handful that are like that.  Just wonder how much of a difference it would make though.  I'm guessing that it's only on the difficult windows that you notice the difference, but it's the difficult windows that put the most strain on the body, so whilst 99 percent of the work it's probably no difference, the other 1 percent puts that much strain on the body that it's worth having the extreme.  Or to put it another way, the 1 percent of the work that's difficult is the part that does 50 percent of the damage on your body.

 

[Chris34]

I've just come back from an ultrasound on my kidneys, liver, testes, gallbladder etc.  Ongoing pains in the bottom of the right rib area have had all sorts of tests, cameras down throat, cameras up backside, blood tests... been undiagnosed for 2 years now but the next stage will be looking like it will be the muscular / skeletal route.

It's possible that the window cleaning has done something, it started when I started the window cleaning.  It feel bad but all tests so far are coming back that I'm in really good health.  Just have to see what the resulting diagnosis is but there is the possibility that the window cleaning is causing some pain just below the ribs as everything else is coming back being tested as being totally fine.

 

[Martyn]

The thing with a lighter pole/brush combo to my mind is this; What we essentially do is change the direcrion of travel of our brush rapidly many times in quick succession, if the combination weighs less it requires less energy to change that direction and therefore can be acheived in a shorter timeframe. so over the course of a day we should expend less energy and be faster. Then there is the less stress less injury factor.  Sounds like a win win to me.

 

[dazmond]

I've just come back from an ultrasound on my kidneys, liver, testes, gallbladder etc.  Ongoing pains in the bottom of the right rib area have had all sorts of tests, cameras down throat, cameras up backside, blood tests... been undiagnosed for 2 years now but the next stage will be looking like it will be the muscular / skeletal route.

It's possible that the window cleaning has done something, it started when I started the window cleaning.  It feel bad but all tests so far are coming back that I'm in really good health.  Just have to see what the resulting diagnosis is but there is the possibility that the window cleaning is causing some pain just below the ribs as everything else is coming back being tested as being totally fine.

i hope you find whats wrong mate...ive been wfp for 11 years(17 years trad before that) and have lots of awkward windows to clean most days and dont have any trouble at all and im 50 this year......i dont think the window cleaning has anything to do with your problem....

 

[Davy G]

I've just come back from an ultrasound on my kidneys, liver, testes, gallbladder etc.  Ongoing pains in the bottom of the right rib area have had all sorts of tests, cameras down throat, cameras up backside, blood tests... been undiagnosed for 2 years now but the next stage will be looking like it will be the muscular / skeletal route.

It's possible that the window cleaning has done something, it started when I started the window cleaning.  It feel bad but all tests so far are coming back that I'm in really good health.  Just have to see what the resulting diagnosis is but there is the possibility that the window cleaning is causing some pain just below the ribs as everything else is coming back being tested as being totally fine.

I wish you the very best with your health issues. Hopefully you will get to the bottom of it soon and it will turn out to not be a serious problem.

I wouldn't think that our work is too hard on the body for most people at least up to 2nd level and with some 3rd level work. Working higher for long periods is probably a lot more challenging to the body and the cost in tiredness will come quicker.

 

[Davy G]

The thing with a lighter pole/brush combo to my mind is this; What we essentially do is change the direcrion of travel of our brush rapidly many times in quick succession, if the combination weighs less it requires less energy to change that direction and therefore can be acheived in a shorter timeframe. so over the course of a day we should expend less energy and be faster. Then there is the less stress less injury factor.  Sounds like a win win to me.

I agree, the stops, starts and changes of direction are a lot easier with lighter gear. I've said before "Put a brick in your hand and draw the action in the air of cleaning a window. Keep this up for a minute or two. Now do the same exercise with a tennis ball. Note the difference in speed achieved and energy used.

My son uses an SLX 22 and I now use an Extreme 22. His SLX feels tired and listless to me compared to the Extreme but the SLX would still be my recommendation for cutting the teeth in wfp. Nothing wrong with it. A ruddy good pole. But the crispness and lightness of the Extreme is a great help to me as I get older.

 

[LondonSurreyman]

Church is old you dont want to drench it with water it probably got dry rot in the walls and wont need wetting or it will mean whole church gets condemned. If its already been washed with pure water its going to be very easy to shine by hand, i,  bet they are worried about the walls getting drenched wood probably short of paint to protect it. 

show them how the water gets the glass clean right up to the lead, years of hand cleaning leaves a thick dirty mark next to the lead as the cloth misses this part, hand shine the window just before it drys, and you will win them over, i remember i used to look out the Church windows and i used to spot all the stains like i knew my own face,

Make no mistake they will be worried about dry rot and they wont tell you they got it , if the dry rot gets wet it grows like fungas a horrible orange stuff, 30% of London houses have dry rot in the walls, for sure they wont want it wet