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Jazzy JB

Looking at buying an existing round.



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Jazzy JB

Hi. My name is Jon. I'm new to all this. I've been a long distance delivery driver for 14 years and had enough of driving for 12 hours a day and covering 300 - 400 miles. I'm looking at buying an existing round. Apparently it's been established for 10 years with 450 domestic customers and 20 commercial.  It's a traditional round. He can't prove how much it's turning over as he doesn't declare it all. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

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Dave Shaw
Hi. My name is Jon. I'm new to all this. I've been a long distance delivery driver for 14 years and had enough of driving for 12 hours a day and covering 300 - 400 miles. I'm looking at buying an existing round. Apparently it's been established for 10 years with 450 domestic customers and 20 commercial.  It's a traditional round. He can't prove how much it's turning over as he doesn't declare it all. Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

Your best bet is to work it with him for at least one cycle. Digital records can be doctored just the same as pen and paper although a little harder. There’s no better proof than actually getting out there and meeting and greeting the customers personally.


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Jazzy JB

@Dave Shaw hi Dave. He said he'd work the round with me so I can get to know it and meet the customers. He wants 25k for the round. It seems a lot of money when I'm only physically getting his ladders etc. Is this normal?

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Cookie
47 minutes ago, Jazzy JB said:

@Dave Shaw hi Dave. He said he'd work the round with me so I can get to know it and meet the customers. He wants 25k for the round. It seems a lot of money when I'm only physically getting his ladders etc. Is this normal?

 

If he's turning over £8k a month that sounds reasonable (in reality I expect he's turning over about a quarter to a third of that).

 

Also it's unlikely you'll be able to get some legal agreement drawn up if he's not declaring his income. Much better to avoid this offer and buy into a franchise (you could get a decent franchise for £25k) or like most guys on here just get out canvassing & start on your own.

 

Also no need to go trad, just go WFP.

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Dave Shaw
[mention=4847]Dave Shaw[/mention] hi Dave. He said he'd work the round with me so I can get to know it and meet the customers. He wants 25k for the round. It seems a lot of money when I'm only physically getting his ladders etc. Is this normal?

If it is what he says it is then that’s not a bad price at just under 4 cleans. If you have the capital and the means then owning your own is much better than being a slave to a franchise. You must know him pretty well if he’s confided in you his tax circumstances so you should know weather to trust him or not.


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Green Pro Clean Ltd
1 hour ago, Jazzy JB said:

@Iron Giant 25000. He's saying he's turning over 87000. But no proof as he only declares 20000.

Two words. One starts with B. The other starts with S. 

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Jazzy JB
55 minutes ago, Dave Shaw said:


If it is what he says it is then that’s not a bad price at just under 4 cleans. If you have the capital and the means then owning your own is much better than being a slave to a franchise. You must know him pretty well if he’s confided in you his tax circumstances so you should know weather to trust him or not.


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I saw the round for sale and enquired about it. I went to meet him on his round for the afternoon and he told me then. 

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ks789

Cripes, must be busy if just one man, over £1800 a week, trad as well. Also no offence to the north, but I wouldnt have thought that area would pay high. Obviously theres posher areas, like near Formby etc. If for real would be great, but take on some cheap labour and head for the sun mate 😎

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Jazzy JB
4 minutes ago, ks789 said:

Cripes, must be busy if just one man, over £1800 a week, trad as well. Also no offence to the north, but I wouldnt have thought that area would pay high. Obviously theres posher areas, like near Formby etc. If for real would be great, but take on some cheap labour and head for the sun mate 😎

It's around Lancaster, Morcombe and Carnforth.

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ks789

yeh could be good, but you must check it out and go round for a good while with the chap and do the maths to see if it adds up. If so, you could take a lad on for extra muscle and be laughing down the line when you're settled into it.

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Iron Giant
[mention=3115]Iron Giant[/mention] 25000. He's saying he's turning over 87000. But no proof as he only declares 20000.
Should be shot at dawn if he is on the fiddle and defrauding the systems of that kind of of money, I wouldn't trust that as far as as I could spit.

County Durham Lad

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Dave Shaw
Should be shot at dawn if he is on the fiddle and defrauding the systems of that kind of of money, I wouldn't trust that as far as as I could spit.

County Durham Lad


Haha. How about hung drawn and quartered. Don’t get me wrong I’m not condoning that sort of thing but when the guys at the top and the ones running our country are at it then it kinda makes you think. A few dodgy cash in handers are a drop in the ocean compared to what’s really going on.


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Part Timer

If I had a round for sale and was fiddling the books to the degree he is I wouldn't tell a total stranger I wasn't declaring nearly £1300 a week. Sometimes things seem to good to be true, and this is one of them. Work the round with him and split it 75-25 until he's got his £25k, should only be 5 months, and you'll be earning £400 a week doing it.

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Bart90
4 hours ago, Jazzy JB said:

@Iron Giant 25000. He's saying he's turning over 87000. But no proof as he only declares 20000.

£87000 turnover on a trad round?  Run a mile, they guy's lying to you.

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Jazzy JB
59 minutes ago, Bart90 said:

£87000 turnover on a trad round?  Run a mile, they guy's lying to you.

He has 2 or 3 lads working for him.

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Clisty1989
8 minutes ago, Jazzy JB said:

He has 2 or 3 lads working for him.

I'd avoid it, you'll end up with 2/3 lads cash in hand and on the dole as well! Walk away, if he's conning HMRC then he's almost certainly conning you. If you buy it and get caught you'll be screwed big time. A gardener round here got caught with cash in hand staff and fiddled books couple years ago, cost him his house, car, business and family, it's just not worth it

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Dave Shaw

The fact that the old guy was fiddling and had cash in handers working for him has nothing to do with the work itself. The amount of time you hear lads going on about wanting to buy work and haven’t got the time to build from scratch but can’t find a good local round is unbelievable. Done the right way this could be a great venture. If it was me and it was worth what he says then I’d get rid of some to bring you under 85000 so you don’t have to pay vat, take on one lad and away you go. After your wage bill, expenses(which will be hardly anything if start off trad) and your own tax and ni you’ll have more or less an instant take home pay of around a grand a week. Even if you have to get a loan to get started you will be in instant mega profit, even better if using your own funds so basically an interest free loan. There will be things that dont always go to plan but managed carefully you shouldn’t be far off. If he needed 2-3 lads plus himself to cover that amount of work then it’s probs under priced. To counter that and make it more than do-able for two you can bump the prices with the intention of losing a good few but keeping the takings the same and also save some time by going wfp. Better that than starting from scratch beating the streets canvassing etc. Like i said just because the last guy was fiddling it doesn’t mean you have to and has jack all to do with the work itself, although it may just need a little attention to get to where you want it to be.


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Iron Giant

I wouldn't part with £25.00 and give it to total stranger never mind £25,000 @Jazzy JB with respect if you are green behind the gills and have never done window cleaning before and have no idea how to go up a ladder and clean windows and no idea about pricing etc then you would be taking a serious leap of faith and  that round is simply a sale of goodwill nothing else. 

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Dave Shaw
I wouldn't part with £25.00 and give it to total stranger never mind £25,000 [mention=7154]Jazzy JB[/mention] with respect if you are green behind the gills and have never done window cleaning before and have no idea how to go up a ladder and clean windows and no idea about pricing etc then you would be taking a serious leap of faith and  that round is simply a sale of goodwill nothing else. 

All the things you mentioned like getting to grips with the ways of the squeegee, getting to know the customers plus the guy you are buying it off etc will all be remedied when he works the work before he buys. I do get that if you have not much experience in our industry bar what you’ve done for yourself, coming on here and the odd chat with the local windys but buying work is common practice. I know loads of lads including myself that have done it very successfully.


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adamangler

The problem is if he doesn't have proof it turns over 87k then it's a big gamble for you to take his word on it and hand over 25k.

 

Where is the proof how long it's been established or if they are good payer?

 

Doing it all cash in hand has shot him I the foot here. If I sell my round I can show you cleaner planner and my bank statements to prove turnover. 

 

Also at 450 customers up near Morecambe I would be sceptical he's Turing over 87k that's good money per house, I wouldn't have thought Morecambe area could produce that although Lancaster is quite nice.

 

How can you buy something that doesn't exist apart from in his head? 

 

In any other business you would be laughed out of the boardroom.

 

This is the problem with not declaring it's like trying to get a mortgage, no good having 100k under your mattress if it's not declared it doesn't exist and the bank isn't giving you a mortgage based on money you don't declare.

 

 

Edited by adamangler

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Nudel

If he deceives the government, he's trying to decieve you.

 

Dealing with dishonest people will only end in tears, and we as professionals should never, ever condone the actions of those who don't do our trade by the book.

 

Walk away, we want nothing to do with that kind of rubbish.

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