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Nathansmyth1991

Leisure battery recommendations?

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Nathansmyth1991

Looking to purchase a leisure battery and a split charge if anyone could offer some advice, I currently have mine running directly from my 03 traffic battery but van has to be constantly running. 

 

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P4dstar

All the info you will need sponsored by our resident technical expert @spruce

 

Also if you get one from euro car parts use the code BATT50 and they'll give you 50% off 👍

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Nathansmyth1991

Thanks

11 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

All the info you will need sponsored by our resident technical expert @spruce

 

Also if you get one from euro car parts use the code BATT50 and they'll give you 50% off 👍

I've heard a few mention the Halford leisure batteries, unsure of the lion as I seen a few on your post saying the lion batteries aren't great 

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P4dstar

Look at the bottom of that thread mate, Spruce put a link to recommended batteries. I've gone with an Excide one (I think thats the brand) It's rated class B from the caravan club

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Davy G
42 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

 

I have two large Numax leisure batteries, about 110amp each I think from memory. They're wired in parallel which combines the ampage but keeps the voltage at 12v. Up to now I've never needed to bench charge, the split charge relay does it all. The busiest days for my batteries are when I do three schools twice a year, two fairly big ones and one tiny one. They're only five minutes from my house and five minutes from each other, so almost no driving distance on the working day. That's about six hours solid hard work with two of us operating. We use two Shurflo pumps, manuel wind reels. The van is switched off while we're working and it amazes me that they don't go flat. I'm surprised when I read how many people bench charge. Don't know whether I'm just lucky not needing to. I think a good split charge relay and proper leisure battery or batteries is key. 

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spruce
7 hours ago, Davy G said:

I have two large Numax leisure batteries, about 110amp each I think from memory. They're wired in parallel which combines the ampage but keeps the voltage at 12v. Up to now I've never needed to bench charge, the split charge relay does it all. The busiest days for my batteries are when I do three schools twice a year, two fairly big ones and one tiny one. They're only five minutes from my house and five minutes from each other, so almost no driving distance on the working day. That's about six hours solid hard work with two of us operating. We use two Shurflo pumps, manuel wind reels. The van is switched off while we're working and it amazes me that they don't go flat. I'm surprised when I read how many people bench charge. Don't know whether I'm just lucky not needing to. I think a good split charge relay and proper leisure battery or batteries is key. 

 

I would be very interested to know what the voltage across the leisure batteries are after they have rested all night and before you start the engine.

 

I 'bench charge' my leisure battery virtually every night in the winter and ever second night in the summer. Yesterday morning we started off with a full leisure battery - it was plugged into the charger all weekend. We completed a single 4 bedroom detached house, then 5 x 3 bed semis (2 were first cleans) in a cul de sac, a large 6 bedroomed place 8 miles further on and finally a large 3 bedroomed semi with conservatory. We travelled a total of 45 miles. I put the charger back on last night and it only switched off and onto the maintenance mode 3 hours later.

 

I have a 140 amp Durite VSR with 70 amp cable. After a heavy day doing a school clean, the charging amperage will intially jump up to around 22 amps on engine startup and within 30 secs will drop to about half of that and settle to 7 or 8 amps on the short ride home.

 

I have purchased a Sterling 60 amp battery to battery charger which I plan to fit on my replacement van ( I hope to finish it before I die 😂) to see if that electronic gadgetery will boost the charging rate. I did have an email conversation with Charles Sterling jnr about charging rate differences between a standard SCR and their Battery to Battery charger and he ignored (failed to answer) the question. (He answered all the other questions I possed.)

 

I'm keen to know why some seem to be able to run their system like you do and we aren't able to. Over the years we have come across windies who have the same vans as we do; they can do it; we can't. Granted, we do very little daily mileage (yesterday was the exception) and we don't get stuck in traffic jams. 10 minutes travelling time each way and 10 minutes between jobs is an average working day for us. Charging time is what its all about. Stuck in traffic is a pain, but with the engine running it adds to leisure battery charging time.

 

At 8 amps going into the battery means that at the most I will return 4 amps of alternator charge time a day (provided the battery wasn't fully charged the night before). 2 pumps drawing 4.5amps each for 2 hours of actually pumping water will draw 18 amps from the battery. Carry on like that for too long and the leisure battery will be flat.

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spruce
9 hours ago, Nathansmyth1991 said:

Looking to purchase a leisure battery and a split charge if anyone could offer some advice, I currently have mine running directly from my 03 traffic battery but van has to be constantly running. 

 

 

On an 03 plate Trafic you can use a VSR (voltage sensing relay).

https://www.simplysplitcharge.co.uk/shop/?12V Durite 140amp VSR Kits Voltage Sense Relay

I like the Durite ones (M Power and Cargo are similar) as they are bi-directional. I just plug my charger into the van to 'bench charge' my leisure battery as I park my van on my driveway. It will also top up the starter battery as well.

 

@P4dstar has a link to an Excide battery. They have a good name and having a CCA rating could also be used to jump start your van as well.

I would also look at Numax.

Here's an example.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/numax/xv31mf/

 

You should stay away from class C batteries.

 

You also need to accept that despite battery manufacturers offering a 2 or 3 year warranty on their batteries, most will exclude use by window cleaners as (according to Numax) we are battery abusers. So I have always purchased a battery knowing that I take on the warranty risk. Numax has done us proud over the years.

 

Have a look at this thread for more information

https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/topic/22375-split-charge-relay/?tab=comments#comment-396866

 

Edited by spruce

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Davy G

Hi folks, Spruce was interested to know the voltage readings on my leisure batteries after sitting overnight. I have a day off today as it ties in with my Christmas shut down (6 week cleans), so I've done the readings. Here they are. 

Before starting the engine, the readings on both Streamline controllers were 12. 2 v

After starting engine the readings were 13.6v

Multimeter readings on both batteries before starting engine were 12.32v. I don't know what the charging ampage is from the SCR, only the volts, sorry. 

My thinking is, that as well as the charging rate needing to be high to top up the batteries quickly during short journeys, it's also just as important to have a good, high capacity reservoir to store as much power as possible. My first battery is five years old. Avon leisure SMF 679M 800 IS 115. It started to lose power after two and a half years. I checked with Mike at Varitech to see if it would be ok to put a second battery in, wired in parallel (as per jump leads) or would it be too much for the controllers and pumps. He assured me it would be fine, and in fact a good idea. I then added a Numax leisure battery XV3 5MF 120A C20 800EN 1120 MCA. Both batteries are maintenance free (sealed). 

Since then, touch wood, no problems. I'm no expert by any means, but I believe in gut feelings. My gut feeling is have the biggest, strongest, meanest, best quality battery or batteries that you can sensibly fit in. The power reservoir will top up when it can and hopefully have the reserves to cope with busy days but short trips. I think as well that the battery or batteries will last longer as they'll be under less stress if they're not discharged as often or as deeply. 

Ps : I had thought both batteries were Numax as I hadn't had reason to see them for a long time as they're in battery boxes. I only open the boxes once or twice a year to check the condition of the connections and spray a bit of WD40 on them. Thats how lucky I've been up to now with batteries. 

I hope this helps. I know what it's like to have battery troubles. I grew up in the 1960s and 70s, jump starts and push starts were almost a daily occurrence in my family. 🤣 

 

 

Edited by Davy G

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spruce
6 hours ago, Davy G said:

Hi folks, Spruce was interested to know the voltage readings on my leisure batteries after sitting overnight. I have a day off today as it ties in with my Christmas shut down (6 week cleans), so I've done the readings. Here they are. 

Before starting the engine, the readings on both Streamline controllers were 12. 2 v

After starting engine the readings were 13.6v

Multimeter readings on both batteries before starting engine were 12.32v. I don't know what the charging ampage is from the SCR, only the volts, sorry. 

My thinking is, that as well as the charging rate needing to be high to top up the batteries quickly during short journeys, it's also just as important to have a good, high capacity reservoir to store as much power as possible. My first battery is five years old. Avon leisure SMF 679M 800 IS 115. It started to lose power after two and a half years. I checked with Mike at Varitech to see if it would be ok to put a second battery in, wired in parallel (as per jump leads) or would it be too much for the controllers and pumps. He assured me it would be fine, and in fact a good idea. I then added a Numax leisure battery XV3 5MF 120A C20 800EN 1120 MCA. Both batteries are maintenance free (sealed). 

Since then, touch wood, no problems. I'm no expert by any means, but I believe in gut feelings. My gut feeling is have the biggest, strongest, meanest, best quality battery or batteries that you can sensibly fit in. The power reservoir will top up when it can and hopefully have the reserves to cope with busy days but short trips. I think as well that the battery or batteries will last longer as they'll be under less stress if they're not discharged as often or as deeply. 

Ps : I had thought both batteries were Numax as I hadn't had reason to see them for a long time as they're in battery boxes. I only open the boxes once or twice a year to check the condition of the connections and spray a bit of WD40 on them. Thats how lucky I've been up to now with batteries. 

I hope this helps. I know what it's like to have battery troubles. I grew up in the 1960s and 70s, jump starts and push starts were almost a daily occurrence in my family. 🤣 

 

 

 

Thanks for those readings. According to battery state of charge chart a full charged battery will record 12.7v or higher after standing idle for 4 hours.

12.5v = 75%

12.4v = 50%

12.2v = 25%

12v or under = discharged.

A battery or battery bank that is low on charge will accept a higher charge rate than a setup which is nearly fully charged. According to those readings, your battery bank is in a low state of charge.

 

It would appear in your case that you are just getting enough charge back into your batteries to maintain the status quo.

 

.

Edited by spruce

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Davy G

Thanks Spruce, I didn't know the readings to determine battery state of charge, so that's really helpful to know. From the information you've given, my batteries are in quite a low state of charge. I can't answer for the fact that they haven't yet needed to be bench charged to stay working, as up to now the pumps always work fine, even when the van has been stood for a couple of weeks in winter. My gut feeling is that they are a very large reservoir, so perhaps they're cruising rather than working hard. I've always thought the voltage reading was fairly low but like I said it seems to work fine as is. I'm reluctant to bench charge as I don't know whether it might lead to them needing it regularly once I start. 

As I said, I believe in big brutes of quality batteries and enough of them. 

Thanks again. Davy G🙂

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spruce
2 hours ago, Davy G said:

Thanks Spruce, I didn't know the readings to determine battery state of charge, so that's really helpful to know. From the information you've given, my batteries are in quite a low state of charge. I can't answer for the fact that they haven't yet needed to be bench charged to stay working, as up to now the pumps always work fine, even when the van has been stood for a couple of weeks in winter. My gut feeling is that they are a very large reservoir, so perhaps they're cruising rather than working hard. I've always thought the voltage reading was fairly low but like I said it seems to work fine as is. I'm reluctant to bench charge as I don't know whether it might lead to them needing it regularly once I start. 

As I said, I believe in big brutes of quality batteries and enough of them. 

Thanks again. Davy G🙂

 

This made me smile. Owners with high mileage/high hours worn diesel engines sometimes have to revert to spraying ether into the air intake to get the engine to fire up. Some owners try to avoid ether spray like the plague as they are convinced that once you start you have to use it every time - the engine gets 'addicted' to ether.

So the old conundrum; did the ether cause the problem or was using ether the last resort to solve a starting problem that already existed? 😕

 

Personally, I don't think giving the bank a charge will create any problems. But then I also won't have a problem walking under a ladder where someone else may be horrified seeing me do it. So you just do what you feel is best.👍

Edited by spruce

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Davy G

Oh yeah! I remember that well in the 1970s. The first Ford Transit diesels seemed to need it, also In the case of one of my cousins, a clapped out, retired, London black cab he used for his mechanic's tools (the irony of him being a mechanic wasn't lost on me) . He used to squirt easy start into it while it was being cranked over. It would start just as the battery was giving up, and fill the whole cul de sac with foul smelling, eye watering, acrid, blue black smoke (Think Batmobile, only much worse) . It was parked among a small nest of council flats in North London. I used to see the smoke going straight in the window of the first floor flat directly above, which seemed to be always open. I used to dread that we'd get an earfull from the tenant but thankfully we never did. 😂

A conundrum as you say. Was Easy Start the cause or the remedy? I didn't know then and I still don't. 🤔

 

Edited by Davy G

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spruce
22 minutes ago, Davy G said:

Oh yeah! I remember that well in the 1970s. The first Ford Transit diesels seemed to need it, also In the case of one of my cousins, a clapped out, retired, London black cab he used for his mechanic's tools (the irony of him being a mechanic wasn't lost on me) . He used to squirt easy start into it while it was being crancked over. It would start just as the battery was giving up and fill the whole cul de sac with foul smelling, eye watering, acrid, blue black smoke (Think Batmobile, only much worse) . It was parked among a small nest of council flats in North London. I used to see the smoke going straight in the window of the first floor flat directly above, which seemed to be always open. 😂

A conundrum as you say. Was Easy Start the cause or the remedy? I didn't know then and I still don't. 🤔

 

 

These were the good old days! There was never a dull moment as something was always going wrong.

 

I fondly remember the days when my now 43 year old lad was a tot. Our family car was a maroon Renault R16TS. That was a lovely car and such a comfortable ride. But it had one problem apart from a bit of rust; it just wouldn't start in the mornings. I searched for a solution and tried everything except the one that would have solved the problem. Once it started it started first turn of the key throughout the day, but not first thing in the morning - it wasn't a morning car.

Strangely, it would start no problem with a bump start. So if the wife wanted to use the car that day I would push start it with my car. If she didn't want the car then we didn't bother. If she needed the car and didn't tell me in the morning, she walked, end of.😂

Edited by spruce

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Davy G

Oh yes. Those were the days. We lived in a cardboard box in a hole in the road. Ate gravel for breakfast and started a twenty five hour shift an hour before we got up. Life was good. Mind, if you told people that, these days they'd never believe you. 🙂

 

Good to have a chuckle, even if we've gone a bit off the original subject. 🙂

 

Edited by Davy G

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solarpanelcleaningltd

Trojan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

more word filler nonsense stuff it’s daft.

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