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Split charge relay fitting?


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Morning everyone

i want to get a split charge relay for my systems battery but I don’t trust myself to fit it. I take it I need an electrician? 
any help and advice appreciated 

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Any monkey can fit one mate and i proved it by fitting one myself.

Took me 30minutes and im a total bafoon with any sort of diy etc

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Local garage would probably help.Im a bit like you,I got grippatank to fit mine when they put a delivery system in the van.

Cheers

Dabber

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3 hours ago, Dabber said:

Local garage would probably help.Im a bit like you,I got grippatank to fit mine when they put a delivery system in the van.

Cheers

Dabber

Easy job. As long as you are not colour blind.

Most kits such as the Durite one i have took around 30 minutes to install in a tidy and safe Manor.

 

All i did was run a heavy gauge positive cable (thats the red one) from my vans starter battery terminal to the inline fuse holder and secure. Then another cable to the relay unit and connect up both securely on the respective terminals and tightened. Then i used the chassis welded captive nut from the seat base to connect my negative cable (thats the black one) then connected to the respective terminal on the battery. Then i connected the heavy guage positive cable (that's the red one) to the leisure battery and secured. 

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1 hour ago, Finch79 said:

Haha cheers gents! I may give it a go, watch this space 👀

Not so quick. What van have you got? A standard SCR won't work with a newish van with a smart alternator and regenerative braking.

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doug atkinson
6 hours ago, spruce said:

Not so quick. What van have you got? A standard SCR won't work with a newish van with a smart alternator and regenerative braking.

What split relay would you recommend for that spruce 

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46 minutes ago, doug atkinson said:

What split relay would you recommend for that spruce 

It's obviously important to make sure that the van has got smart alternator with regenerative braking first. Ford and Renault have gone this route where PSA (Citroen/Peugeot/Toyota/some Fiats) have gone the Adblue route.

I have a Sterling BB1260 in my 2012 Peugeot Boxer. It boosts the output voltage of the alternator from 13.9v to 14.6v for my flooded leisure battery. Maintenance free batteries should only be charged at 14.2v so we can change this on the system. I don't need this as I can use a VSR (voltage sensing relay) or a SCR (split charge relay).

This Sterling unit compensates for my poor charging alternator and does a brilliant job. I still have to bench charge my leisure battery as I do very limited daily mileage, but its now once a week rather than every second day in summer as previously.

I did a write up on this a couple of years ago.

https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/topic/22375-split-charge-relay/#comments

Grippa have a good write on their website which is worth a read. I have dealt with Sterling for many years and have the utmost respect for their products.

Grippa also sell a B2B charger but its much more expensive than the Sterling unit.

 

 

Edited by spruce
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Hi Guys 

Im gonna stay old skool and take the battery out I think, thanks for the advice everyone 

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1 hour ago, Finch79 said:

Hi Guys 

Im gonna stay old skool and take the battery out I think, thanks for the advice everyone 

What van and model have you got?

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doug atkinson
On 18/06/2020 at 23:10, spruce said:

It's obviously important to make sure that the van has got smart alternator with regenerative braking first. Ford and Renault have gone this route where PSA (Citroen/Peugeot/Toyota/some Fiats) have gone the Adblue route.

I have a Sterling BB1260 in my 2012 Peugeot Boxer. It boosts the output voltage of the alternator from 13.9v to 14.6v for my flooded leisure battery. Maintenance free batteries should only be charged at 14.2v so we can change this on the system. I don't need this as I can use a VSR (voltage sensing relay) or a SCR (split charge relay).

This Sterling unit compensates for my poor charging alternator and does a brilliant job. I still have to bench charge my leisure battery as I do very limited daily mileage, but its now once a week rather than every second day in summer as previously.

I did a write up on this a couple of years ago.

https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/topic/22375-split-charge-relay/#comments

Grippa have a good write on their website which is worth a read. I have dealt with Sterling for many years and have the utmost respect for their products.

Grippa also sell a B2B charger but its much more expensive than the Sterling unit.

 

 

I still need to view all that and take it in when I have time. From what he is saying some relays will be putting too much power to the battery. So this may explain why some people controllers burn out if they leave it on whilst driving.

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17 hours ago, doug atkinson said:

I still need to view all that and take it in when I have time. From what he is saying some relays will be putting too much power to the battery. So this may explain why some people controllers burn out if they leave it on whilst driving.

I posted a reply to this which has gone missing.

I would suggest you contact @Ian Sheppard and ask him what the tolerances are on Spring controllers. If it's lower than the spike out put off the alternator of a van with regenerative braking then a controller will be damaged if left on if using a scr.

The Sterling battery to battery charger will absorb this voltage spike so there wouldn't be a problem.

If the van has regenerative braking then you can't supply a standard split charge relay. It has to be a battery to battery charger.

About a month ago ian confirmed that by far the majority of controller failures they get back was due to reversed polarity.

 

 

 

Edited by spruce
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Ian Sheppard

Interesting topic. I would agree with Spruce that in some circumstance you may be better with a separate Battery to Battery unit. Asking the advice of the local dealer is a good place to start. Euro6 has been around since 2015 and on the whole we have seen few if any issues where the V11 charger is fitted. In part this is due to the different way it works in comparison with some Split relay chargers.

 

Most SCR will close the circuit and start charging when the alternator voltage is above 13V and they tend to open ( stop charging when the alternator drops below 12V to 12.5V) With some vehicle manufacturers that use regenerative braking to charge the vehicle battery or in some cases AS WITH  2018 Peugeot we tested that saw the alternator drop out under acceleration from stationary.

In the Peugeot boxer we tested we found that charging continued while the vehicle was under braking as the alternator detected the load of the leisure battery. However we saw that under acceleration from stationary for example away from traffic lights did see the alternator voltage drop to 7V and the charging paused as below. Once the vehicle was travelling at constant speed the alternator voltage come back up and charging continued when using the V11C

Some Split relay chargers simply stop charging when the voltage falls so when the Smart alternator drops voltage teh relays stop charging. This means that the Alternator does not see the additional load and keep the voltage up

The V11 works in a slightly different way so for example when alternotor voltage drops while under braking or acceleration rather the open the charging circuit completely it pauses charging and leaves the circuit closed. This means that once the the vehicle is moving at a constant speed again that the alternator detects the extra load required by the leisure battery and voltage comes back up and charging continues.

Once the engine is switched Off voltage at the alternator drops to 0 and after about 60 seconds the V11C opens the charging circuit and charging stops completely. We designed in the pause as it allows the residual current in the circuit to dissipate slowly and avoid spikes.

This difference in how the V11 Charger works means it seems to suit most Euro 6 rated vehicles but as a general rule checking with the dealer is a good idea as for some battery to battery is the way to go.

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54 minutes ago, Ian Sheppard said:

Interesting topic. I would agree with Spruce that in some circumstance you may be better with a separate Battery to Battery unit. Asking the advice of the local dealer is a good place to start. Euro6 has been around since 2015 and on the whole we have seen few if any issues where the V11 charger is fitted. In part this is due to the different way it works in comparison with some Split relay chargers.

 

Most SCR will close the circuit and start charging when the alternator voltage is above 13V and they tend to open ( stop charging when the alternator drops below 12V to 12.5V) With some vehicle manufacturers that use regenerative braking to charge the vehicle battery or in some cases AS WITH  2018 Peugeot we tested that saw the alternator drop out under acceleration from stationary.

In the Peugeot boxer we tested we found that charging continued while the vehicle was under braking as the alternator detected the load of the leisure battery. However we saw that under acceleration from stationary for example away from traffic lights did see the alternator voltage drop to 7V and the charging paused as below. Once the vehicle was travelling at constant speed the alternator voltage come back up and charging continued when using the V11C

Some Split relay chargers simply stop charging when the voltage falls so when the Smart alternator drops voltage teh relays stop charging. This means that the Alternator does not see the additional load and keep the voltage up

The V11 works in a slightly different way so for example when alternotor voltage drops while under braking or acceleration rather the open the charging circuit completely it pauses charging and leaves the circuit closed. This means that once the the vehicle is moving at a constant speed again that the alternator detects the extra load required by the leisure battery and voltage comes back up and charging continues.

Once the engine is switched Off voltage at the alternator drops to 0 and after about 60 seconds the V11C opens the charging circuit and charging stops completely. We designed in the pause as it allows the residual current in the circuit to dissipate slowly and avoid spikes.

This difference in how the V11 Charger works means it seems to suit most Euro 6 rated vehicles but as a general rule checking with the dealer is a good idea as for some battery to battery is the way to go.

It is interesting how things change to meet emission standards. My old Citroen Relay 2004 charged at a higher voltage than my 2012 Peugeot Boxer, But the Boxer has the battery inside the driver's cabin where the old Citroen Relay had the battery in the engine compartment.

My original guess the reason why the current Boxer van only reaches a charging voltage of 13.9v is to ensure there in no chance of creating poisonous gases when charging the battery. The Relay charged up to 14.6v so I imagine it didn't matter about gassing as any gas would be blown away.

The charging voltage on both vans remained identical whether accelerating or not. It must be the change of emission standards at 2015 forced other spec changes.

 

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On 22/06/2020 at 17:02, Part Timer said:

Sometimes ignorance is bliss 😀

It all sounds like a foreigner language to me , I just take my van to a friend who a marine electrician and say xxx isn’t working or can you do this please  , and it’s done he’s currently re wiring and moving controllers on a thermopure system Ime putting in another van .

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