Wfp? No Thanks!

[OoO]

I don't want ladders banning or trad cleaners swapping over to WFP.

The longer they stay how they are the better.

A bloke near me had converted over. He has around a week spare a month now. That's how quicker his round is.

 

[Duckie]

This is always going to be a bone of contention. With my H&S hat on and as an employer I guess there are a few ways to look at this.

Firstly I think that ladders will never be fully banned, they will always be required for certain types of access/trades and so long as the work is properly risk assessed and ladders have been identified as suitable to use then this would be acceptable. There are ways, even when using ladders, to reduce potential risk ie ladders stops, securing/tying in etc and all the different types of control measures need to be considered in the RAMS. Steve32's post covers at lot of this and was really well explained. It's also down to personal choice. We have employees who won't go up a ladder - but others that are happy to use this method. Training is a big part of it as well.

Working from the ground will always be the safest method, but as Mart1001 says, it doesn't necessarily have to be WFP. Telescopic poles with trad tools attached might be considered as an alternative safe option if access and height isn't going to impede the job (unless the trad tool falls off and clocks you one and you end up with concusion!).

I do think that the `health & safety won't allow it` is used too easily sometimes (I am not getting at anyone here as I know some customers can be awkward and it's sometimes the easiest thing to say). I also know that `time is money` so WFP is quicker and trad on an extension would take longer, and why should you be out of pocket. In this case, if it's worth using a telecopic pole and trad tools but will take more time - charge the woman more and tell her why. If she wants to specify how her windows are cleaned she has to understand the consequences (ie more time), if she accepts it then fine, if not walk away as it wouldn't be worth it.

I also think that society has changed and it's now much more of a `claims culture`, but that's a whole other debate which I'm not getting into!

Dawn

 

[Dodger]

Well I've converted another 6 pensioners to wfp upstairs this morning that had a very bad splash and dash merchant before me. I been doing em trad for over a year so I knew they were clean anyway but made and extra special job cos I knew they were all very sceptical. Still doing trad downstairs though cos I enjoy it but that's just me.

 

[bluemonkey]

It's your interpretation of the word 'trad' that I have a problem with bluemonkey as it's been known for wfp users to actually knock the doors of trad customers and tell them the same thing.

While ladders are associated with traditional window cleaning, the word trad or traditional actually means to use mop and squeegee or cloth. Both methods are actually safer than using a wet brush if you want to be really picky, for the customers property, for the user and for the environment.

I use ladders and I will continue to do so until someone tells me they are banned which I doubt will ever happen but, I also use an extension pole(just like wfp wc's do) but I use traditional tools attached instead of a wet brush. A pole does not have to automatically mean water fed, and trad does not have to automatically mean ladders.

Mart.

I dont think ladders will ever be banned with, as it is too hard to police, if a custy wants it trad, I say sorry I don't do it, only job I do trad is the inside of a chipy for a mate, I got offered a job this morning £12, must be done trad, as windows run like hell, I use to do the job and its a pain, so said sorry not intrested and pass it on

 

[steve32]

It all comes down to money at the end of the day. But on a commercial site the cost of fines, reputation, and close of business completely out ways the cost of finding safer ways to do the job without a ladder. You might find a few independent clients who are willing to take a risk but as for the big chains, they have to be been seen trying to limit the risk to a minimum. But as for the residential ladder window cleaner it's impossible, well not impossible, but unless they want to earn £2 an hour they is no other way. It's a simple case of a ladder up against a wall, we could all go out and buy specially designed ladders with handrails or mobile towers but the initial outlay would be silly and the time erecting it all and moving it would be a joke. On a commercial site the cost of this ( doing it safely ) is budgeted into the price and time scale because the client would rather see these measures taken. But for the ladder window cleaners the only option is water fed pole or as said traditional style methods done from a pole. The bottom line is while ladders in residential window cleaning is not technically banned, in the reality of the real world when the poo hits the fan they are banned. Again as said before its worded in a very sneaky way. If you ask yourself two questions before climbing a ladder to do the upstairs windows and the questions are...... 1, could I do it with a water fed pole ? .... 2, could I do it traditionally but with an extended pole ? ... If the answer is yes then technically climbing that ladder is breaking the law... Although I doubt you would ever have to worry about it unless you or an employee fell, lets have it right what's the chances of an HSE rep walking past as you are up a ladder cleaning windows. It something you do at your own risk with possible bad consequences.

But this is where I am with it all.... I no it's traditional and this country is losing its tradition rapidly and it's a big shame, but if they is a method out there that is safer but just as effective then why not use it. It's a no brainier for me. I wouldnt lift a heavy box if I had a crane, that's my mentality anyway. Not knocking the ladder boys, it's just an opinion.

Anyway if you haven't already go and watch Donald Donaldson call the window cleaner on YouTube .

 

[Ian101]

its your business so u decide how to run it ......... easier that way then letting customers tell you how to run your business

 

[Posh]

Why would you want ladders banned steve32?

That would put a lot of windies out of work as not all can afford the wfp set up. I personally hope they don't ban em as the amount of work I pick up from wfp guys would stop as I get a fair share of them. Picked up 1 today. Use the right saftey accessories & your be fine.

 

[alex1987]

Generally if a customer doesn't want me to clean wfp, then I will let them know I won't be cleaning them. I used ladders for 5 years, and have had enough of pushing my luck. Personally I don't think you should let customers dictate how you work, unless you're a start up and need every customer, then just replace them for good customers that are happy.

With a 90 year old lady, I guess you just have to humour her, and squeegee off the water. I tend to go out of my way for the very elderly customers. good karma etc. Unless it starts taking 3 times as long, then you have to put your business head on and just drop them.

 

[steve32]

I certainly don't want ladders banned mate, I've probably put that across the wrong way. But each to there own for me mate, and the last thing I'd want to see is people out of work. They is a lot more dangerous things than ladders out there. I was just stating for me personally I'd sooner use the pole as I believe it cleans just as well. Some people beg to differ and they is arguments both sides, but lets be honest they isn't a lot in it and both leave windows clean. I just see it as the better option for me personally, not everyone but for me. You don't have to climb on slope roofs or miss windows out because you can't get them. And you don't have to leave the ground. It's unlikely you will fall from a ladder, but if I can lower the risk, and work quicker then it makes sense to me, why not. I never got involved in this subject to diss ladder boys, I have a nebosh qualification and felt I could input into the conversation and shed some light on a confusing subject. I doubt they'll ban ladders mate, they don't need to because they have covered they **** with the way the rule is written.
Why would you want ladders banned steve32?

That would put a lot of windies out of work as not all can afford the wfp set up. I personally hope they don't ban em as the amount of work I pick up from wfp guys would stop as I get a fair share of them. Picked up 1 today. Use the right saftey accessories & your be fine.

 

[Posh]

Ok mate. Just seemed that you wanted em banned but can see what you mean now Steve.

 

[Duncs]

its the same old chestnut posh they are used to getting there windows trad when you turn up with your W f F its going to take abit of convincing that it is as good

and half the time

they are parting with there hard earned pension!!. it must be a boil when you have worked hard got your round where you want it then you start loosing customers

I will go the same way W F P I dont want to be climbing ladders much longer looking at the big picture if my knees are sore now

i will expect to loose customers when I change over swings and roundabouts , I have gave away loads of high work passed it onto the W F P guys

 

[Posh]

To be honest in the next 5 years I hope to be rid of ladders. Trouble is I like doing trad lol

 

[Dodger]

Same here posh but I just decided last month to just do it. Lost a lot of custom but not the ones I thought I would but all good they were the ones I wasn't bothered about. The ones I wanted to keep took some hard work but I convinced all but 2 but they'll change their minds.

 

[Posh]

I live in a flat so it's awkward for me to keep making water & finding somewhere to store it so I wll persevere with me trad at the mo or until my 50 year old legs tell me otherwise lol.

 

[Dodger]

Wfp ain't that much easier posh on us banties, couple of hard days this week and my shoulders were caning. I mean real pain not just achin oh yes I hit the cod liver oil shizzle lol.

 

[Smurf]

Indeed Dodger as It's hard graft whatever method you use for us old folk.

 

[Tuffers]

Wfp ain't that much easier posh on us banties, couple of hard days this week and my shoulders were caning. I mean real pain not just achin oh yes I hit the cod liver oil shizzle lol.

Same here and my elbows. Started cod liver oil tablets two days ago. Who needs a gym???

 

[HotWash Window Cleaners]

If you get a hot water system you work so much less than with cold water. I see a heatwave on eBay quite cheap. Stop killing yourself and upgrade. Lol.

 

[Smurf]

Did you ever get around to building another webasto hot water heater

 

[Dodger]

If you get a hot water system you work so much less than with cold water. I see a heatwave on eBay quite cheap. Stop killing yourself and upgrade. Lol.

not really all the houses I'm on about I tradded for last year and were spotless already so wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. A hot system will make no diffence on virtually all maintenance cleans whatsoever. The problem was muscles I've not used like that before and being old not how warm my water was.

 

[Smurf]

Agreed Dodger as hot/warm water I've found is a waste of money on most regular cleans.