Switching from traditional to wfp

[peter1984]

I have been window cleaning for about 15 years traditionally. I want to move over to wfp because my round has got too big for the 2 of us and I don't want to get in another worker and thought this might speed us up enough to get back on top of it all. I am looking at a 650l 2 person set up like this Build your own DI Waterfed pole kit
But I have a few questions
Is 650l going to be enough water for 2 workers or would I be better just going for 1000l?
Should I go for a DI setup or RO? Can the RO setup be inside the van and fill overnight or do I have to fill a tank at home and then pump it into the van with a separate pump?
Really I was hoping to go for a medium sized van like a swb transit which I believe would fit a 650l setup or should I just bite the bullet and go bigger van bigger tank
Sorry for all the questions but it all seems a bit daunting with so much equipment to buy and getting the right van
Thanks
Any help greatly appreciated
Peter

 

[peter1984]

After doing some more reading I would be planning on having an RO system mounted inside the van as I can park it on my drive to fill up
Also I already have a water genie trolley with 6 25l tubs and RO filters but I never really got into using as much as I had planned because I work out of my car and its just so much hassle getting it all in and out without the car getting soaked

 

[Ocahan01]

I think for two workers you should go for a bigger tank than 650. If as you say your round is big you’ll need more than 325 litres each to put in a good days work.
I currently use close to 400 most days on my own. I like to good rinse and possibly I over clean but I like to do a thorough job.

You will find that you’ll use more water for
the first few months as you’ll basically be ‘first cleaning’ all your customers. Taking your time on the first few cleans is in my opinion very Important because a good job will help encourage the water fed pole sceptics.

Switching over can be stressful and anxiety inducing for a while but you will reap the benefits if you stick to it and explain the process to your customers. Offering a call back guarantee also helped me a lot as it shows the customer you care( never had a callback !)

After the first few months you’ll never look back. Good luck .

 

[ched999uk]

To decide on DI or RO you need to buy a decent TDS meter (Daqua) and see what the reading is. If it's above about 70 TDS then you need RO.
I process water in my van as it's convenient as I can park on my drive plus I'm not mega busy.
If you are fairly busy and there are 2 of you I would be inclined to look at static water processing. Do you have a garage or a shed that could take a 1000 litre IBC tank? My reasoning is that if something went wrong with the processing in the van you might only find out in the morning, so messing up most of your day! If you had a 1000litre IBC you fill the van with a submersible pump then start processing more water. So when you get home you have a full tank, so you can fill then or in the morning knowing that you have 350litres left just in case something goes wrong.

 

[Part Timer]

When up to speed you would be able to do circa 40 houses with a 650 litre tank.

 

[peter1984]

Thanks for the advice mate maybe an 800 l tank might be more suitable. Do you think that using the pole should be faster than cleaning traditionally?

I think for two workers you should go for a bigger tank than 650. If as you say your round is big you’ll need more than 325 litres each to put in a good days work.
I currently use close to 400 most days on my own. I like to good rinse and possibly I over clean but I like to do a thorough job.

You will find that you’ll use more water for
the first few months as you’ll basically be ‘first cleaning’ all your customers. Taking your time on the first few cleans is in my opinion very Important because a good job will help encourage the water fed pole sceptics.

Switching over can be stressful and anxiety inducing for a while but you will reap the benefits if you stick to it and explain the process to your customers. Offering a call back guarantee also helped me a lot as it shows the customer you care( never had a callback !)

After the first few months you’ll never look back. Good luck .

 

[Ocahan01]

Yeah Peter there’s no doubt about it that the pole is faster although for the first month or two you may not believe it is. This is down to a couple of things. First of all you’re learning a new skill so you’re going to be slower until you learn your way. Also if you weren’t a frame cleaner when doing traditional you will have to spend time getting them cleaned properly.

As long as you’re prepared to make a little less than expected for a few weeks then you’ll be fine. Most of the window cleaners I know personally had major doubts after the first couple of weeks but this is completely natural. You’re completely changing your method so it’s only human nature that you’ll want to return to what you know and what you’re comfortable with.

Stick with it through the learning period and be prepared for a few customers to not like it, in the whole I found most people just didn’t care what method was used. You’ll pick up more than you’ll ever loose ,Good luck !

 

[peter1984]

Yeah Peter there’s no doubt about it that the pole is faster although for the first month or two you may not believe it is. This is down to a couple of things. First of all you’re learning a new skill so you’re going to be slower until you learn your way. Also if you weren’t a frame cleaner when doing traditional you will have to spend time getting them cleaned properly.

As long as you’re prepared to make a little less than expected for a few weeks then you’ll be fine. Most of the window cleaners I know personally had major doubts after the first couple of weeks but this is completely natural. You’re completely changing your method so it’s only human nature that you’ll want to return to what you know and what you’re comfortable with.

Stick with it through the learning period and be prepared for a few customers to not like it, in the whole I found most people just didn’t care what method was used. You’ll pick up more than you’ll ever loose ,Good luck !

Thanks for the advice

 

[peter1984]

Yeah Peter there’s no doubt about it that the pole is faster although for the first month or two you may not believe it is. This is down to a couple of things. First of all you’re learning a new skill so you’re going to be slower until you learn your way. Also if you weren’t a frame cleaner when doing traditional you will have to spend time getting them cleaned properly.

As long as you’re prepared to make a little less than expected for a few weeks then you’ll be fine. Most of the window cleaners I know personally had major doubts after the first couple of weeks but this is completely natural. You’re completely changing your method so it’s only human nature that you’ll want to return to what you know and what you’re comfortable with.

Stick with it through the learning period and be prepared for a few customers to not like it, in the whole I found most people just didn’t care what method was used. You’ll pick up more than you’ll ever loose ,Good luck !

Thanks for the adc

To decide on DI or RO you need to buy a decent TDS meter (Daqua) and see what the reading is. If it's above about 70 TDS then you need RO.
I process water in my van as it's convenient as I can park on my drive plus I'm not mega busy.
If you are fairly busy and there are 2 of you I would be inclined to look at static water processing. Do you have a garage or a shed that could take a 1000 litre IBC tank? My reasoning is that if something went wrong with the processing in the van you might only find out in the morning, so messing up most of your day! If you had a 1000litre IBC you fill the van with a submersible pump then start processing more water. So when you get home you have a full tank, so you can fill then or in the morning knowing that you have 350litres left just in case something goes wrong.

That makes sense. Thanks ?

 

[Clean zero]

Hi good luck with the move you might be better to have a static tank in the garage if you can then at least you can top up in the day if needed . That way you won’t have to worry about running out of water and may give you more choice on a van remember pay load will need thinking about.Or if you don’t have a static and you are running short on water there is always spotless if you have one near by .

 

[Iron Giant]

The payload on a van to have a 1000ltr tank in the back will have to be around 1,500kg that's a very big van you'll be needing 1,000ltrs of water is 1,000kg add to that tank frame batteries reels spares toolkit two men and fuel that's well over 1,000kg and with weights of 800 to 1,000kg plus you'll want a professionally fitted system not just ratchet strapped in, If all your work is local as in your home town and not too far a radius from your home you may well get away with an 800ltr tank and you can go back home for lunch and top up

First cleans regardless of whether you have been wiping the frames or not will take 2-3 times longer than a regular and this is for someone who has been wfp for a good while there can be a mother-load of dirt trapped behind the openers and in between the lowest part of the frame and sill you are going to fall behind with your workload in the early days until you get them all wfped and get up to a reasonable speed, you could do them in phases so as not to fall too far behind and take such a hit financially.
I am a sole trader and have a 350ltr tank and carry x3 25ltr containers I can smash out a good day's work on my own usually 25+ houses a day without breaking a sweat but I have been wfp for almost 15 years and I can get through my work methodically and fast no corners are cut and still have time to stop and chat to customers.

so, in theory, a 800ltr tank could work quite well for a 2 man team as once your rounds are converted and you are up to speed you'll get through your work with no bother and be 1.5x faster than been trad and you won't be going up a ladder anymore and risking your neck

 

[Mattlekim]

Just thought I would add my thoughts as I have converted several rounds to wfp.

First expect to loss a few customers some just can't get over there own bias that it can't work.

Iv had people cancel becuase it leaves the walls wet. (What about rain???)

As has been mentioned before offer a comeback service. Avoids most problems.

Second it will take forever to convert your round.

Personaly one tip I have found works is to scrub everything clean then love on to next house. Then come back and clean them again. You can check the windows when u come back before you re clean them. I find this faster and more confident boosting that u have done a good job.

Third I work with a second person.
We used to use a lot of water, but now we use about 600l a day. But we have 800l capacity, but never fill it.

We have just over 1250kg payload. We only ever went as high as 750l when filling for weight reasons.

At first you will be very very slow. I would say depending on the house maybe even 4x slower.

You will also use a stupid about of water.
Even on your second clean you will have to take longer.

But as you get used to the system you will speed up.

As for speed comparison it's a no brainer.

My other friend is still trad. He can do about 2.5 semis an hour in our local area. (No frames just cills.)
I can do 5 easy including moving van etc.

The more compact the work the fast wfp is.

Lastly I would go down having a 1000l tank at home with ro system. We have a 55l per minute pump. If we did ever need water we can get over 500l in 10 mins.

 

[Pjj]

The payload on a van to have a 1000ltr tank in the back will have to be around 1,500kg that's a very big van you'll be needing 1,000ltrs of water is 1,000kg add to that tank frame batteries reels spares toolkit two men and fuel that's well over 1,000kg and with weights of 800 to 1,000kg plus you'll want a professionally fitted system not just ratchet strapped in, If all your work is local as in your home town and not too far a radius from your home you may well get away with an 800ltr tank and you can go back home for lunch and top up

First cleans regardless of whether you have been wiping the frames or not will take 2-3 times longer than a regular and this is for someone who has been wfp for a good while there can be a mother-load of dirt trapped behind the openers and in between the lowest part of the frame and sill you are going to fall behind with your workload in the early days until you get them all wfped and get up to a reasonable speed, you could do them in phases so as not to fall too far behind and take such a hit financially.
I am a sole trader and have a 350ltr tank and carry x3 25ltr containers I can smash out a good day's work on my own usually 25+ houses a day without breaking a sweat but I have been wfp for almost 15 years and I can get through my work methodically and fast no corners are cut and still have time to stop and chat to customers.

so, in theory, a 800ltr tank could work quite well for a 2 man team as once your rounds are converted and you are up to speed you'll get through your work with no bother and be 1.5x faster than been trad and you won't be going up a ladder anymore and risking your neck

Very sound advice , I found very similar when changing from trad to WFP . Initially thought I had made a huge mistake but by the 3 rd clean was a doing a weeks work trad in 3day or just over with WFP

 

[Iron Giant]

Very sound advice , I found very similar when changing from trad to WFP . Initially thought I had made a huge mistake but by the 3 rd clean was a doing a weeks work trad in 3day or just over with WFP

I do talk sense sometimes, I still remember the days I went home thinking how I'd wasted my money and what a big mistake I made switching and even the day another window cleaner laughed at me for going wfp and the money I'd spent, years later I am the one laughing as I made a bold decision and it ultimately it has paid off but somedays are still school days and plenty still learn from on here and out at work

 

[Pjj]

I do talk sense sometimes, I still remember the days I went home thinking how I'd wasted my money and what a big mistake I made switching and even the day another window cleaner laughed at me for going wfp and the money I'd spent, years later I am the one laughing as I made a bold decision and it ultimately it has paid off but somedays are still school days and plenty still learn from on here and out at work

Lol I had the same experience there was only me and one other window cleaner I went WFP he laughed and said you myst have more money than sense this will never take off won’t be as good as a ladder and squeggee , now who’s the one laughing ???

 

[Iron Giant]

Lol I had the same experience there was only me and one other window cleaner I went WFP he laughed and said you myst have more money than sense this will never take off won’t be as good as a ladder and squeggee , now who’s the one laughing ???

I had the same for years then they came asking questions about switching over and eventually they all did.

 

[Clean zero]

Strange it is like a lot of things in life people are frightened of the unknown and until you see it working then you begin to wonder I better believe this or I will be left behind and those left behind will be eventually kicking themselves for not believing it .This goes for a lot of things in life you have to keep with the advancements made

 

[Ocahan01]

My problem before I switched was the fact that I had in the past picked up work from one wfp cleaner in particular who was for want of a better word he was useless!
He left the windows a mess and unfortunately customers put this down to the system and not the operator.

So with all these horror stories stored in my memory I magnified every little water mark that I left at first and really let it bother me.
I soon learned that good technique and making sure my water was 100% pure at all times that this is a great method for cleaning windows and as it turns out actually quite enjoyable.

 

[Pjj]

My problem before I switched was the fact that I had in the past picked up work from one wfp cleaner in particular who was for want of a better word he was useless!
He left the windows a mess and unfortunately customers put this down to the system and not the operator.

So with all these horror stories stored in my memory I magnified every little water mark that I left at first and really let it bother me.
I soon learned that good technique and making sure my water was 100% pure at all times that this is a great method for cleaning windows and as it turns out actually quite enjoyable.

Ones said to me that WFP wasn’t any good and they didn’t like it and wanted trad cleaning I offered to WFP them for free to see what they thought of it every one I ever did this with always phoned and paid and became a customer , I dont bother doing this anymore as we don’t need the work but found it worked well and took the wind out of their sails ???

 

[peter1984]

The payload on a van to have a 1000ltr tank in the back will have to be around 1,500kg that's a very big van you'll be needing 1,000ltrs of water is 1,000kg add to that tank frame batteries reels spares toolkit two men and fuel that's well over 1,000kg and with weights of 800 to 1,000kg plus you'll want a professionally fitted system not just ratchet strapped in, If all your work is local as in your home town and not too far a radius from your home you may well get away with an 800ltr tank and you can go back home for lunch and top up

First cleans regardless of whether you have been wiping the frames or not will take 2-3 times longer than a regular and this is for someone who has been wfp for a good while there can be a mother-load of dirt trapped behind the openers and in between the lowest part of the frame and sill you are going to fall behind with your workload in the early days until you get them all wfped and get up to a reasonable speed, you could do them in phases so as not to fall too far behind and take such a hit financially.
I am a sole trader and have a 350ltr tank and carry x3 25ltr containers I can smash out a good day's work on my own usually 25+ houses a day without breaking a sweat but I have been wfp for almost 15 years and I can get through my work methodically and fast no corners are cut and still have time to stop and chat to customers.

so, in theory, a 800ltr tank could work quite well for a 2 man team as once your rounds are converted and you are up to speed you'll get through your work with no bother and be 1.5x faster than been trad and you won't be going up a ladder anymore and risking your neck

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. You’re right with the size of the van as I don't really want it to be too big. So with an 800l is it OK for that size to be strapped down or would I need to install a frame?

 

[Clean zero]

Definitely a frame have it professionally installed bolted down .If just strapped in a accident it will break free and do some serious damage to you also your insurance probably won’t pay out if it’s not properly secured