Self employed with a boss

[GlassGuru]

Hi all, looking for a bit of advice. I've been registered self employed for the last almost 10years using all my own tools, vehicle, fuel, insurance etc and paying my own tax etc, but work for a "boss" who gives me a list of work to book and complete for a week, tells me where to be and when and what time to start and then pays me 50% at the end. I'm now realising this isn't legit? I've mentioned to him I'm not comfortable carrying on and been basically ignored so thinking of jacking it in and going alone but after almost 10 years doing the same round I feel like it's a waste to jack it in and start from scratch when the customers have only seen me for the last near decade and i obviouslyhave a good relationship with them. Any ideas or input would be appreciated, Thanks.

P.s my thoughts were to offer to take on the round and pay him 25% weekly as he wouldn't be able to keep up with the jobs when i leave, does this sound reasonable?

 

[David K]

Hi all, looking for a bit of advice. I've been registered self employed for the last almost 10years using all my own tools, vehicle, fuel, insurance etc and paying my own tax etc, but work for a "boss" who gives me a list of work to book and complete for a week, tells me where to be and when and what time to start and then pays me 50% at the end. I'm now realising this isn't legit? I've mentioned to him I'm not comfortable carrying on and been basically ignored so thinking of jacking it in and going alone but after almost 10 years doing the same round I feel like it's a waste to jack it in and start from scratch when the customers have only seen me for the last near decade and i obviouslyhave a good relationship with them. Any ideas or input would be appreciated, Thanks.

P.s my thoughts were to offer to take on the round and pay him 25% weekly as he wouldn't be able to keep up with the jobs when i leave, does this sound reasonable

Hi all, looking for a bit of advice. I've been registered self employed for the last almost 10years using all my own tools, vehicle, fuel, insurance etc and paying my own tax etc, but work for a "boss" who gives me a list of work to book and complete for a week, tells me where to be and when and what time to start and then pays me 50% at the end. I'm now realising this isn't legit? I've mentioned to him I'm not comfortable carrying on and been basically ignored so thinking of jacking it in and going alone but after almost 10 years doing the same round I feel like it's a waste to jack it in and start from scratch when the customers have only seen me for the last near decade and i obviouslyhave a good relationship with them. Any ideas or input would be appreciated, Thanks.

P.s my thoughts were to offer to take on the round and pay him 25% weekly as he wouldn't be able to keep up with the jobs when i leave, does this sound reasonable?

First of all, that dude is scamming you ! Nobody should earn as much as the sub contractor, unless they pay for all your expenses. Personally ive never subbed anything below 80%, given that i get to see the actual numbers. I would go and tell him you want 80%, or else walk away and be what you really are , “self employed”

 

[Part Timer]

You aren't self employed and strictly speaking he owes you 10 years holiday pay and pension contributions.
I suppose the percentages depends on what type of work it is. If he is charging very high prices and splitting it 50/50 which means you're getting £250 a day then it's not that bad but as you're on here I some how doubt this is the case.
Probably best to have a chat with a specialist in employment laws and find out exactly where you stand. When you know this then you will be in a much stronger position to go to your "Boss" to negotiate a far better deal.
I however doubt the conversation will end up with an amicable deal.

 

[Yogi1872]

In this situation you hold all the aces here, he's technically due you x amount of years holiday pay what you could legally chase him for. If you have done that run for that number of years hel know himself that realisticly you could take 80 to 90% of the round too if you decided to chap them. People don't like change so the vast majority would stay with you. If you have any morals though it's not something you should be doing.

On the other hand, the guys been good enough to give you a stable job for all they years, if he was bad to work for you wouldn't have been there that long.

What I try to do in any situation is swap places and think that your the other guy. What would you do in that situation that you think would be fair. You might have only seen the end result when he's had enough to give you that part of work. You haven't seen the years of effort he's put in and money spent acquiring the work. He didn't just wake up one day and it magically appeared.

That's his work. If you want your own work then get out there and do what he did and aquire it.

 

[GlassGuru]

You aren't self employed and strictly speaking he owes you 10 years holiday pay and pension contributions.
I suppose the percentages depends on what type of work it is. If he is charging very high prices and splitting it 50/50 which means you're getting £250 a day then it's not that bad but as you're on here I some how doubt this is the case.
Probably best to have a chat with a specialist in employment laws and find out exactly where you stand. When you know this then you will be in a much stronger position to go to your "Boss" to negotiate a far better deal.
I however doubt the conversation will end up with an amicable deal.

Yeah the no holiday pay and pension contributions have made me realise the money is even less than i first thought. Feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth to be honest. You're correct in doubting I get that a day, that's closer to the amount I do per day total... thanks for your advice, I also doubt an amicable deal will be made but at this point I feel I've got to give it a go.

 

[GlassGuru]

First of all, that dude is scamming you ! Nobody should earn as much as the sub contractor, unless they pay for all your expenses. Personally ive never subbed anything below 80%, given that i get to see the actual numbers. I would go and tell him you want 80%, or else walk away and be what you really are , “self employed”

Thanks for your input, I was thinking along the same lines but didn't really realise until I searched around a bit. Just took it how he presented it and thought its not bad but working things out it seems I'd currently be better off employed at around £12ph and not have the headaches, expenses and no holiday or pension contributions.. not that I want to be employed I would just focus my time on my building my own work rather than paying full amount to operate but only earning half what the works worth.

 

[GlassGuru]

In this situation you hold all the aces here, he's technically due you x amount of years holiday pay what you could legally chase him for. If you have done that run for that number of years hel know himself that realisticly you could take 80 to 90% of the round too if you decided to chap them. People don't like change so the vast majority would stay with you. If you have any morals though it's not something you should be doing.

On the other hand, the guys been good enough to give you a stable job for all they years, if he was bad to work for you wouldn't have been there that long.

What I try to do in any situation is swap places and think that your the other guy. What would you do in that situation that you think would be fair. You might have only seen the end result when he's had enough to give you that part of work. You haven't seen the years of effort he's put in and money spent acquiring the work. He didn't just wake up one day and it magically appeared.

That's his work. If you want your own work then get out there and do what he did and aquire it.

Yeah I've been advised by friends to just take the work but that doesn't sit well with me.. although I now feel I've been taken advantage of for all these years and not really paid what I'm worth and just a bit mugged off. Yeah I get he built or bought the round and have always been grateful for the work but now I know that I've basically been a subby with all the negatives and none of the positives purely for his benefit that also doesn't sit well with me. I like to think I would have been more fair from the beginning and put a worker on payee and been completely upfront with everything.

 

[ched999uk]

Speak to Citizens Advice and explain how you have been working.
It's tricky as you have earned a living for the last 10 years but he has been taking advantage of you and probably broken the law.
Get some proper legal advice, then weigh up how to approach him. Remember that he could just 'sack you', allow you to 'buy' the customers (pay him off over time), or you could come to an agreement on better pay etc and then add your own customers so it's legal. Make sure you have all customer details stored just in case he decides to sack you.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Jaygti]

Might want to start building up your own work now, if you get a few days of work, it’ll help when you speak to him??

 

[Yogi1872]

Yeah I've been advised by friends to just take the work but that doesn't sit well with me.. although I now feel I've been taken advantage of for all these years and not really paid what I'm worth and just a bit mugged off. Yeah I get he built or bought the round and have always been grateful for the work but now I know that I've basically been a subby with all the negatives and none of the positives purely for his benefit that also doesn't sit well with me. I like to think I would have been more fair from the beginning and put a worker on payee and been completely upfront with everything.

If your going to take the work, I'd explain to him that youl give him x3 of its worth. Can pay it off at an affordable payment weekly. If you chap it your taking most of it and hel know that. So atleast your offering to buy it from him.

This is the very reason I wouldn't put the same guy on the same run every time. Strangers chapping your doors isn't a threat to your work. The person who's done the run for years is though. I bet alot of them think it's yours the now.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I would tell your boss I'm having a meeting with the Tax Man to discuss what has been going on.

 

[Yogi1872]

I would tell your boss I'm having a meeting with the Tax Man to discuss what has been going on.

Incriminating himself in the process. Don't threaten him with anything. If ypu go threatening him then straight away he's going to go on the defensive and itl sort nothing. Empty threats isn't the line to go down.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Incriminating himself in the process. Don't threaten him with anything. If ypu go threatening him then straight away he's going to go on the defensive and itl sort nothing. Empty threats isn't the line to go down.

That's what I would do, it isn't a threat I would visit them and tell them what I have been led to believe. If they fine me then so be it but it all needs to be straightened out because it will probably affect his pension. He needs to be brought to account.

 

[GlassGuru]

Thanks everyone, I will try find out some more info on where I stand and have a discussion with my boss at some point in the next week. More thank likely i will tell him that I either need to rent or buy the round from him (I did offer already but he was reluctant to discuss and wanted upwards of £20k in one go which he knows I can't afford on the money he pays me) or I'll be going on my own. I will keep you updated on how it goes.

 

[Part Timer]

Yeah the no holiday pay and pension contributions have made me realise the money is even less than i first thought. Feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth to be honest. You're correct in doubting I get that a day, that's closer to the amount I do per day total... thanks for your advice, I also doubt an amicable deal will be made but at this point I feel I've got to give it a go.

If you're not netting £20 an hour then you would be better self employed. The numbers very much depends on the quality of the work and where you are.
We work in the NE and all over the South. In the NE we have a lad that has his own window cleaning round that we pay £130 a day for roughly 6 hours. We pick him up and drop him off and he uses our equipment.

In the South we have someone that uses his own van and equipment and gets £650 for 2 days, again about 6 hours a day. We earn more money from the man in the South than we do with the lad in the NE.
You must be a good worker with the right attitude so you will succeed, hopefully without to many hiccups

 

[DeLaCruz]

that 50/50 split is a fairly common number for our trade but only if your getting supplied the van, tools and fuel. If it’s your stuff mate that’s way off and like others said boss man is taking way to much. I know a few colleagues who basically sub out work and ‘rent’ their van out to the subbie - probably not legal either tbh but way fairer imo.

 

[Yogi1872]

that 50/50 split is a fairly common number for our trade but only if your getting supplied the van, tools and fuel. If it’s your stuff mate that’s way off and like others said boss man is taking way to much. I know a few colleagues who basically sub out work and ‘rent’ their van out to the subbie - probably not legal either tbh but way fairer imo.

Just because others do a higher % doesn't mean his boss has too. To work there that long he's obviously been happy with the pay that was set.

I'm not saying this is the op position, but alot of the time resentment creeps in if you leave people to work alone. They are doing x amount of work and think why should I be making x y or z money when I can do it for myself.

 

[DeLaCruz]

Just because others do a higher % doesn't mean his boss has too. To work there that long he's obviously been happy with the pay that was set.

If he is happy why post the thread ? He is not happy and it’s obvious why - he is supplying van, fuel and tools so taking on the cost of all overheads and earning a lower hourly than should be. If clutch on the van that he has been using to earn his boss £500+ pw breaks is boss gonna pay half ? Not exactly rocket science -
The reason self employed earn more
Is bc they have to pay for all the things that go wrong themselves.

 

[Yogi1872]

Just because others do a higher % doesn't mean his boss has too. To work there that long he's obviously been happy with the pay that was set.

If he is happy why post the thread ? He is not happy and it’s obvious why - he is supplying van, fuel and tools so taking on the cost of all overheads and earning a lower hourly than should be. If clutch on the van that he has been using to earn his boss £500+ pw breaks is boss gonna pay half ? Not exactly rocket science -
The reason self employed earn more
Is bc they have to pay for all the things that go wrong themselves.

He's stuck it for 10 years. There's plenty people who would give you work if you can do the job. So not exactly stuck for options. But seems was happy enough to stay there.

 

[GlassGuru]

He's stuck it for 10 years. There's plenty people who would give you work if you can do the job. So not exactly stuck for options. But seems was happy enough to stay there.

Like you said earlier, people don't like change and that includes me. I Thought it was easier to just carry on how I was but in the last year my outlook on life has changed and I'm not about doing what's easiest anymore. And since then, looking into everything it seems I'm not making near what I should be. Not saying I should get 100% as I know it's his company and work, I'm saying if he can't pay me a fairer percentage (and legally) I'll have to leave and go it alone.

 

[Pjj]

Like you said earlier, people don't like change and that includes me. I Thought it was easier to just carry on how I was but in the last year my outlook on life has changed and I'm not about doing what's easiest anymore. And since then, looking into everything it seems I'm not making near what I should be. Not saying I should get 100% as I know it's his company and work, I'm saying if he can't pay me a fairer percentage (and legally) I'll have to leave and go it alone.

To be fair I don’t understand anyone who works for someone else on this basis , it’s easy to run your own business doing windows I have no business experience whatsoever but manage to run a very successful business so if I can do it anyone can it’s not rocket science. Having said that I am subbing a load of work out at this time to a handful of guys and they love it ???. Given time they will probably buy this work off me .