Tds keeps rising after 1 month

[The window God]

Iv just changed all filters on my ro, I run 3 20" pre filters and then a 40 40 membrane I set up and all was running well I was getting a tds of 006 before resin vessel but after a few weeks of making approx 1000 litres a day it started creeping up its now at a tds of 026 and don't seem to be able to get it lower no matter how much flushing I do? 

Any ideas why? 

Help any 1? 

At this fight my membrane will be shot in 2 months 

 

[The window God]

Any ideas any one? 

 

[Part Timer]

Could be a few things, firstly what is your TDS from tap, has that shot up all of a sudden. What pressure are you putting the water through the R/O did you have really good tap pressure and didn't need a booster pump?. If the pressure gauge isn't around 100 psi the membrane wont be as efficient.  

 

[Iron Giant]

If the water board has started working in your local area you could have various issues drop in water pressure, increased tds etc...

 

[The window God]

Hi 

Tds coming out of the tap is around 315ppm and water pressure is between 45 and 50 psi and im supposidly running on a ultra low pressure membrane. 

It was running fine for the first month until I changed pre filters and after a long flush I don't seem to be able to get the tds below 025ppm iv been told I should get at least a year out of a membrane? 

 

[Iron Giant]

Were did you buy your membranes from and what is the make and spec of the membrane as sometimes you aren't always sold what you should be @spruce is our resident expert and as is why he has a special status, hopefully he can ask the right questions and give you the answers, be prepared for an essay ?

 

[The window God]

I bought the membrane from vyair and I'm pretty sure it's called the xle low pressure membrane ? 

Whay are the best membranes on the market? 

Cheers 

 

[Iron Giant]

I bought the membrane from vyair and I'm pretty sure it's called the xle low pressure membrane ? 

Whay are the best membranes on the market? 

Cheers 

I assume it's this one https://www.vyair.com/xle-4040-ultra-low-pressure-membrane.html

 

[The window God]

Yes that's the 1 ??

 

[Iron Giant]

Yes that's the 1 ??

Hopefully @spruce or @doug atkinson will be able to help you 

 

[spruce]

Hopefully @spruce or @doug atkinson will be able to help you 

6ppm to 26ppm output from the membrane after a prefilter change just doesn't make sense.

When we learnt the process of trouble shooting one of the questions we were taught to ask is 'what changed for the results to change.'

From what you say it was your prefilters.

Just as an experiment, try to connect your r/o up directly to you main water supply for a short while and see if the output improves. As @Iron Giant suggested, a repair to a mains water pipe can send a whole lot of sediment down the pipe and block your sediment filter.

If the performance returns then connect your prefilters back up with the first sediment filter removed. If that works then your sediment filter has an issue. If it is still performing badly then the carbon filter could be blocked up.

Our r/o has worked perfectly on 5 micron prefilters, both sediment and carbon block. I got smart' once and fitted a very expensive 1 micron rated carbon block filter as it had a service life of around 160,000 liters. I found after about 6 weeks that it was hardly letting any water through it as it was so blocked up. Replacing it with a 5 micron filter solved the problem.

I do seem to remember @doug atkinson saying that the Vyair XLE low pressure membrane isn't exactly low pressure by window cleaning standards. I'm sure he quoted a pressure of around 115 -125psi but I wouldn't swear to it as my long term memory isn't what it used to be.

We have had excellent results from or Axeon HF5 membrane at 50psi water pressure. Our current membrane is just over 6 years old.

Again, the old hot potato question; what is your pure to waste ratio and what is your water pressure?

.

 

[doug atkinson]

Vyair I'll say no more. Toray do not do an XLE membrane but they do membranes. The XLE part is try hoodwink people is Dow membrane technology like they do with resin and other filters etc.. 

I'm not going to go into Toray website as last time they had a nasty virus.

This you need to bring up with Vyair as no one can help out on here. At a guess you may have an issue with the filters restricting flow but go back to Vyair and ask them to sort it out as per their specification advertised.

I know what the answer will be. 

 

[The window God]

I know it doesn't make no sense this is why I'm scratching my head trying to figure out this problem 

My pure to waste ratio is about 60 / 40 and my pressure is between 45 to 50 psi 

So you suggest I buy my pre filters and membranes from else where 

 

[Baldmonkey]

i have noticed over the past few weeks that one day my tds from the tap can be 301ppm and two days later it will be 40ppm, the fluctuation of the incoming tap water must be monitored first and foremost whenever you are testing the end result

I have built my sytems with tee junctions and taps built into the whole system so that whenever i want to i can pull a sample of the tap water, outcoming prefilter water, ro water and resin water without pulling pipes out.

for example the other day i had my ro output at 14ppm and the next i had 1ppm, if i hadnt have had the ability or just plain didnt test the tap water, i would never have known that on the 14ppm day my tap water was at 311ppm and the 1ppm day it was 39ppm.

test test test and record all the outputs for each stage and this will give you a better indication as to exactly what has changed and more importantly where.

 

[spruce]

OK. Judging by @doug atkinson's reply you might have to consider cutting your losses and buying a membrane from a reputable window cleaning supplier @The window God.

I have never bought anything from Vyair. In the early days I questioned the spec of their Chen 5lpm pumps. They quoted a current consumption of 1/2 of the Shurflo pumps we were using. Having pumping drawing half the current was of interest to me.

They got quite snooty about my query to them. I later discovered that they were quoting free flow consumption rather than the pump under load. Actually under load their pumps were drawing more current than our Shurflo's. I got a spec sheet from the Chen manufacturers.

I know it doesn't make no sense this is why I'm scratching my head trying to figure out this problem 

My pure to waste ratio is about 60 / 40 and my pressure is between 45 to 50 psi 

So you suggest I buy my pre filters and membranes from else where 

Daqua.co.uk sells them as does GAPS Water Supplies. The Axeon membranes are more expensive but are good American made quality. Unfortunately the devaluation of the £ against the US$ isn't helping the price. Chinese membranes are much cheaper and perform to a lower standard. They will cost you more in the end as you spend extra on resin to polish the water off.

 

[doug atkinson]

I know it doesn't make no sense this is why I'm scratching my head trying to figure out this problem 

My pure to waste ratio is about 60 / 40 and my pressure is between 45 to 50 psi 

So you suggest I buy my pre filters and membranes from else where 

No get Vyair to sort it out otherwise you’ve lost a fair bit of money. I do know people who have had their money back as specs advertised didn’t meet expectations.

Where did you get the filters from.

 

[The window God]

All filters were from vyair same as the membrane I have been on the phone to vyair who say to test the pressure which iv done, to make sure there's no leaks which iv done and there now telling me I need to flush before and after every use ? 

There offering to send me a replacement membrane but if its any thing like the last 1 it will be shot in about 12 weeks 

 

[Iron Giant]

It would also be interesting to know exactly which pre-filters you have bought as dependant on sediment and other pollutants and minerals in your water, your pre-filters could be clogged and done and subsequently this also causes issues with your membranes down the line.

Just having a look on Vyair's website my head is spinning as there is so many options and the varying info on different pre-filters etc in all honesty even with the knowledge I have which is fairy decent but not great I would struggle to know what to buy off there site more so as a novice. 

 

[The window God]

Is there any pre filters you recommend iv been told that if I run sediment and just carbon that's sufficient enough..? 

 

[Part Timer]

That's all I use, bought my last prefilters from Daqua

 

[Iron Giant]

Is there any pre filters you recommend iv been told that if I run sediment and just carbon that's sufficient enough..? 

Yes, but simply buying any carbon and sediment filter isn't enough as they all have different specs and lifespans and buying cheap usually means they won't last very and if you aren't sure what you should ideally be buying, then again this can also be an issue, the only supplier a lot will buy from is https://daqua.co.uk/filters.htm as what you see is what you get and the specs are provided , what you must be aware off it says 37,800 litres, that is waste and pure production combined not just how much pure you produce, 5 micron pre-filters is what we wfper's use 

with vyair some of the info says 6-12 months use which is just mind boggling to a point as different people use different amounts of water and thus this will reduce the lifespan.