Water fed pole vs trad

[Robo]

Hi guys

Normally I don’t write on the forum just look but signed up now. 

been doing water fed pole for about seven years know but I’m considering changing over to trad and using only a back pack for the odd difficult windows.

I always have done tops wfp and bottom trad. 

This year been really struggling with backache and neck ache when doing water fed pole. Even stoped gutter cleaning and anything higher than a normal house and doing only regular jobs.

And feel like things are going to get really bad if I don’t make some sort of change. 

Been trying exercises and even been to a chiropractor and that works but only for a few days and back to bad again.

I can trad and ladder isn’t a problem. But I’m wondering how customers would react to going back to trad and if it would affect getting new jobs. 

And I know it’s the wfp strain becuase when doing trad don’t get the problems. 

I used to do small amount of commercial but but if I was doing trad would focus on the houses only. 

The plus points are doing trad you get access to a lot of the terrace houses and bad roads where parking isn’t great. 

Any thoughts would be great. 

 

[Iron Giant]

Straight off, I would question what pole and brush you are using, I started having issues with my elbows and shoulders and switched to an Xtreme pole and for around a year or so Xtreme brushes, lighter equipment always helps and don't suffer as badly anymore, carrying  a heavy load such as backpack without a trolley along with pole which is too heavy is no good.

Lads that use a 25-35ft pole all day when most of there work could be reached with a 22ft pole is just daft, making things lighter on your body is the way to go, as for a chiropractor, not always a good thing depending on your back and the issues you personally have I would try different measures and if you are seeing someone who just does chiropractoring then I would maybe see someone else, some years ago I went to one who wanted me in for multiple sessions but I only did one, fast forward more than 7 years and my current physio said potentially doing chiro on my back would risk breaking my back again, because of the pins I have in my back. 

I would hazard a guess that you aren't using the lightest of equipment and therefore need to bite the bullet and consider investing, in order to help yourself, inherently most windys can be skin flints and will always go for the cheapest option, but there comes a time when you just have to bite the bullet. 

 

[steve garwood]

Great advice from @Iron Giant there.

Of course two other things to consider. How long before you transfer aches and pains to the bottom half of your body doing trad?

Secondly, if you’re using WFP properly, prepare for less earnings 

 

[Pjj]

There can be a number of reasons for having neck and back issues with wfp  don’t stand to close to the property the further away you stand the less the angle on your neck looking up , and where ever possible use a rocking technique rather than bending the arms and back so much , I found doing this stoped the issues you have mentioned along with the comments from iron giant and Steve garwood , use the shortest lightest pole for the height of building you are cleaning , making a change with how you are working will take a bit of time to stop the effects on your body but Ime sure over a few weeks you will notice a big difference, I certainly did .

 

[Nudel]

Also get a pair of belay glasses. It helps a lot.

 

[Robo]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I do actually use the SXL 22 and ultimate medium/soft mixed brush. I will try to do rocking rather than bending and see if that makes a difference. Might get a some belay glasses as I guessing its the looking up all the time causing the problems. I seem to manage two or three days and then end up losing a day where neck gets so bad can almost not move it. I know trad is slower than wfp but if I'm not losing days off would balance out.

How do you think customers see trad compared to water fed pole these days? do they expect wfp, everyone seems to say wfp comes across as more professional but there's a lot of properties which are unfriendly for water fed poles...

 

[Incheck]

I would do whatever your body tells you to do. I am also backpack & pole predominantly residential. I’ve had back issues and often thought how much easier things would be on my back if i wasnt lifting tanks of water all day every day. 
I had chriopractor treatments and although they worked well, its a cash burner. 
swimming helps me a lot when im in real difficulty.

simply cracking on helps a lot too, the busier work is, the less painful it is. Any more than two days off and i start getting the aches and pains and stiffness.

i dont want a Fitted system because i would then struggle for space with the pressure washer, vac etc.

i doubt many of your customers would care too much about changing methods, most of them have too busy lives to be worrying about what the window cleaners up to. If they ask just be honest and say look Im having health issues, so did what was best for me. the only thing is it keeps the glass and frames cleaner for longer because you dont leave any soap residue behind so you may start arriving to dirty upstairs windows a lot more often.

i trad my ground floor flat as i cba getting the wfp gear out. But the windows dont last near as long as a wfp clean would. After 3 weeks to a month they need doing again so the risk to reverting back to trad might be that your customers don’t see the same longevity of cleanliness and start asking why?
the boys are right a lighter pole and standing further back would help a lot.

My neck kills doing anything higher than a normal house and glad i dont do any commercial really, just the odd top floor flat. 

 

[Robo]

I would do whatever your body tells you to do. I am also backpack & pole predominantly residential. I’ve had back issues and often thought how much easier things would be on my back if i wasnt lifting tanks of water all day every day. 
I had chriopractor treatments and although they worked well, its a cash burner. 
swimming helps me a lot when im in real difficulty.

simply cracking on helps a lot too, the busier work is, the less painful it is. Any more than two days off and i start getting the aches and pains and stiffness.

i dont want a Fitted system because i would then struggle for space with the pressure washer, vac etc.

i doubt many of your customers would care too much about changing methods, most of them have too busy lives to be worrying about what the window cleaners up to. If they ask just be honest and say look Im having health issues, so did what was best for me. the only thing is it keeps the glass and frames cleaner for longer because you dont leave any soap residue behind so you may start arriving to dirty upstairs windows a lot more often.

i trad my ground floor flat as i cba getting the wfp gear out. But the windows dont last near as long as a wfp clean would. After 3 weeks to a month they need doing again so the risk to reverting back to trad might be that your customers don’t see the same longevity of cleanliness and start asking why?
the boys are right a lighter pole and standing further back would help a lot.

My neck kills doing anything higher than a normal house and glad i dont do any commercial really, just the odd top floor flat. 

Yh I cut all the commercials I do down because they was a 100% killer on body and now do mostly houses and commercial only house height. Even stopped the pressure washing, gutters.

My profit and loss has stayed almost the same as the previous year from doing just regular window cleaning which was interesting.

One thing I didn't think about was the weight of the backpack but was thinking to put on a small trolley.

But I feel like you hit it on the nail when you said do what your body says. Maybe I'll take a few regular customers which have easy houses and try them for a few months and see what happens. I am finding a lot of houses these days also have extensions and you have to use a ladder for half the job anyway.

I'm the opposite which feels strange tho, everyone is wfp and I'm thinking to move to trad.

 

[Incheck]

Yh I cut all the commercials I do down because they was a 100% killer on body and now do mostly houses and commercial only house height. Even stopped the pressure washing, gutters.

My profit and loss has stayed almost the same as the previous year from doing just regular window cleaning which was interesting.

One thing I didn't think about was the weight of the backpack but was thinking to put on a small trolley.

But I feel like you hit it on the nail when you said do what your body says. Maybe I'll take a few regular customers which have easy houses and try them for a few months and see what happens. I am finding a lot of houses these days also have extensions and you have to use a ladder for half the job anyway.

I'm the opposite which feels strange tho, everyone is wfp and I'm thinking to move to trad.

Dude if you’re lugging the backpack round uneccessarily youre mad ? 30 quid red sack truck from screwfix + a bungee cord is all it takes. Thats what i use. And always wheel the backpack to the van when it needs refilling rather than lifting a tank to the backpack. Avoid as much lifting as is possible.

I wouldnt worry about feeling strange ?‍ Normals boring right? 

 

[Robo]

Dude if you’re lugging the backpack round uneccessarily youre mad ? 30 quid red sack truck from screwfix + a bungee cord is all it takes. Thats what i use. And always wheel the backpack to the van when it needs refilling rather than lifting a tank to the backpack. Avoid as much lifting as is possible.

I wouldnt worry about feeling strange ?‍ Normals boring right? 

Thanks for the help. Do you trad any tops? or you wfp all the tops and trad just the bottoms ? 

 

[Incheck]

I wfp top and bottom mate. If the upstairs windows have sills which is approximately 1/3 of houses then i get up and run a cloth along them if i can get to them With ease, and sometimes if theres a load of yellow spots on the glass (spider poo i think it is) then i have to get up there to soap and blade it. But predominantly wfp...

 

[Davy G]

Dude if you’re lugging the backpack round uneccessarily youre mad ? 30 quid red sack truck from screwfix + a bungee cord is all it takes. Thats what i use. And always wheel the backpack to the van when it needs refilling rather than lifting a tank to the backpack. Avoid as much lifting as is possible.

I wouldnt worry about feeling strange ?‍ Normals boring right? 

Yeah, the world is run by "normal" people (house of commons, "smart motorways with no safe refuge, law and order out of control etc, etc).

Normal's not only boring, its mad. I want no part of it. 

Davy G, eccentric and proud. And definitely not normal by today's definition. ?

 

[Pjj]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I do actually use the SXL 22 and ultimate medium/soft mixed brush. I will try to do rocking rather than bending and see if that makes a difference. Might get a some belay glasses as I guessing its the looking up all the time causing the problems. I seem to manage two or three days and then end up losing a day where neck gets so bad can almost not move it. I know trad is slower than wfp but if I'm not losing days off would balance out.

How do you think customers see trad compared to water fed pole these days? do they expect wfp, everyone seems to say wfp comes across as more professional but there's a lot of properties which are unfriendly for water fed poles...

Are you lifting a backpack in and out of a vehicle and filling by barrells by any chance ???? 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clever-Yellow-Support-Lower-Brace/dp/B00YSS53EI/ref=sr_1_4?crid=10YN4MLS4T9F&keywords=clever+yellow+back+support+belt+lower+back+brace&qid=1569777618&sprefix=clever+yellow%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-4

I had terrible back pain so i bought the above back support and it was best £23 i have ever spent. Keep it in the van and put it on when i need it and ditched the painkillers.

As Nudel says, get a set of Belay specs for gutters when using the Vac which saves the neck bending. ?

 

[Skxawng]

One problem that can arise from using a wfp is that you get a strong back but that isn't balanced by stronger core and abdominal muscles. The resulting imbalance tilts your pelvis forwards curving your lower spine and putting pressure on the outside of the lower vertebrae. 

If you have lower back pain then you can see if it is caused by this by standing and keeping your stomach muscles and your bum tensed. This helps to tilt the pelvis back and takes pressure off the lower spine. If the pain goes after a minute or so then you've likely got imbalanced core muscles. Basically a strong back and beer belly (describes a few of us wfp cleaners I know!)

Abdominal and core exercises will help fairly quickly.