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Leisure battery help

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GSS Window Cleaning

Leisure battery help! Had a Halfords 110ah leisure battery for about a year and half and it's died today so went in and got a new one £145 But it's a class a battery and can be charged 400 times before it's dies. What's the best way to charge a lesuire battery as been getting mixed answers. I used to charge mine every night on a mains charger with a cut out switch on when fully charged. Been told this is wrong as the battery can only be charged 200 times before it's dead hence why it only lasted a year and half if that. Been told to get 2 days or maybe 3 out of it till nealry dead then charge it??

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steve garwood
1 minute ago, GSS Window Cleaning said:

Leisure battery help! Had a Halfords 110ah leisure battery for about a year and half and it's died today so went in and got a new one £145 But it's a class a battery and can be charged 400 times before it's dies. What's the best way to charge a lesuire battery as been getting mixed answers. I used to charge mine every night on a mains charger with a cut out switch on when fully charged. Been told this is wrong as the battery can only be charged 200 times before it's dead hence why it only lasted a year and half if that. Been told to get 2 days or maybe 3 out of it till nealry dead then charge it??

Whoever told you that is talking 💩.

Leisure batteries should be charged each time it’s used.

It shouldn’t be allowed to go under 50% of its charge or this will damage it 🙂

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GSS Window Cleaning
30 minutes ago, steve garwood said:

Whoever told you that is talking 💩.

Leisure batteries should be charged each time it’s used.

It shouldn’t be allowed to go under 50% of its charge or this will damage it 🙂

Thanks mate I knew i was doing it right from the research on the internet. Halfords talking poop as usual. Hoping this battery will last a Bit longer as its a 400 cycle battery 

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johnny bravo

ive had mine for over 5 years now, I use thisNumax 121000 Smart Battery Charger For Car Batteries, Leisure

I usually fully charge it after 2 full days out.      less if not out much due to weather. takes around 45 mins

just plug in to battery in rear van,   extension cable in plug socket and close van door

bish bash bosh

just google numax  charger,   around £55 / £65      got this when I got battery.     my leisure battery has 4 pins.      2 small ones to fix charger lead that keeps on,      2 for pump connections permantly on.   

never had any trouble with them.      inside a cardboard box for cover

thKTOK8MXK.jpg

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Pjj
3 minutes ago, johnny bravo said:

ive had mine for over 5 years now, I use thisNumax 121000 Smart Battery Charger For Car Batteries, Leisure

I usually fully charge it after 2 full days out.      less if not out much due to weather. takes around 45 mins

just plug in to battery in rear van,   extension cable in plug socket and close van door

bish bash bosh

 

 

 

I don’t know what charger you are using but there is no way it will be charged properly and fully after 45 muinits this is the trouble most are using inappropriate chargers for the  batteries and the way they are used , my batteries are now 5 years old and are as good as the day I got them but they are charged most nights on an adjustable charging system that is programmed to the specific type and amp hour of the batteries a charger should gradually charge a battery over many hours at a low rate and then go on float when it’s charged , not wacking in 20+ amps this is what kills a battery . 

 

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johnny bravo

you can see the charger I am using, ok probably a couple of hours to absolute full charge.    all depends how far battery has gone down during days work.

as you can see above there is nothing wrong with the numax charger,   one of the best .

never never had a problem with battery or charger.

this is why its called a smart charger

 

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spruce
Posted (edited)

Generally a cycle is a deep discharge and recharge. A deep discharge isn't when its flat and then recharged. If you keep the battery above 50% and recharge regularily then it should last more than 400 cycles. Usually the basis for the number of charge cycles is given in the small print and te depth of discharge. For example some company might quote a high number of cycles to make his offering more attractive, but the small print says the a cycle is the battery discharged to 80% full and recharged.

 

If this is an AGM battery then I would suggest you ask Halfords what battery charger they recommend and if the battery can also be charged with a split charge relay or battery to battery charger using the van's alternator.

 

My current leisure battery is a flooded lead acid battery and will be 5 years old shortly.

 

Over the years its been charged with a Voltage Sensing Relay in the van and in summer 'bench charged' with a Numax intelligent leisure battery charger for motorhomes every second night (same charger as @johnny bravo uses.My charger is 12 years old and had 2 new fans and a new plug in power cable.)  In winter its gets charged every night when I put the heater in the van if the van has worked that day.

 

 

 

Edited by spruce

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Pjj
2 minutes ago, johnny bravo said:

you can see the charger I am using, ok probably a couple of hours to absolute full charge.    all depends how far battery has gone down during days work.

as you can see above there is nothing wrong with the numax charger,   one of the best .

never never had a problem with battery or charger.

this is why its called a smart charger

 

 

 

They arnt a bad charger , but for charging a battery every day you need a charger that’s programmed for the type and amp hour battery , my charging system was done by a friend whose a marine electrician, I asked him what would be the best way to do it and this is what he did as this is the way they do it on boats , Ime no expert in these things , that’s why I got someone who is to do it . I have a c tech charger I use for the bike and car , that’s very similar to the one you have it’s an excellent charger for occasional use but isn’t the best for charging a battery every day , ionic systems used to use these c teck chargers and after a few months they had battery failures , how do I know I had one of there systems , I then got a proper charging system that was designed  the job and never had a problem since , everyone to there own , but Ime just sharing my personal experience with this type of system . My system is running 8 hours a day 5 days a week running 2-3 pumps , 9 kw boiler and now two electric reels , the boiler has done over 10,000 hours run time in 5 years and the batteries have just been tested to check there performance the figures I was given don’t mean a thing to me but was told that they are exactly the same performance as the day I bought them , that’s down to good quality batteries in the first place and the charging system keeping them that way . 

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Iron Giant

I have the same Numax charger and I charge mine every night with having an electric reel as after each working day the battery is depleted by 50% I have had halfords smart  battery chargers which charge at a lower and take longer to put the full charge back into the battery but the Halfords batteries have still been knackered in 18 months, so I opted for a Numax battery and charger as recommended by @spruce

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steve garwood
12 hours ago, Iron Giant said:

I have the same Numax charger and I charge mine every night with having an electric reel as after each working day the battery is depleted by 50% I have had halfords smart  battery chargers which charge at a lower and take longer to put the full charge back into the battery but the Halfords batteries have still been knackered in 18 months, so I opted for a Numax battery and charger as recommended by @spruce

Me too. I have two of them permanently fixed in my van 🙂

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spruce
On 08/10/2019 at 21:39, Pjj said:

 

 

They arnt a bad charger , but for charging a battery every day you need a charger that’s programmed for the type and amp hour battery , my charging system was done by a friend whose a marine electrician, I asked him what would be the best way to do it and this is what he did as this is the way they do it on boats , Ime no expert in these things , that’s why I got someone who is to do it . I have a c tech charger I use for the bike and car , that’s very similar to the one you have it’s an excellent charger for occasional use but isn’t the best for charging a battery every day , ionic systems used to use these c teck chargers and after a few months they had battery failures , how do I know I had one of there systems , I then got a proper charging system that was designed  the job and never had a problem since , everyone to there own , but Ime just sharing my personal experience with this type of system . My system is running 8 hours a day 5 days a week running 2-3 pumps , 9 kw boiler and now two electric reels , the boiler has done over 10,000 hours run time in 5 years and the batteries have just been tested to check there performance the figures I was given don’t mean a thing to me but was told that they are exactly the same performance as the day I bought them , that’s down to good quality batteries in the first place and the charging system keeping them that way . 

 

This battery charging story isn't as simple as it first seems.

 

This Numax charger I use does apparently fully charge my leisure battery. On the old 04 plate Citroen Relay I had for many years, the alternator never added any more charge to the fully charged leisure battery. The voltmeter always gave a voltage of 12.7 to 12.8v to show it was fully charged.

 

I have replaced that Voltage sensing relay on the old van with a Sterling battery to battery charger on my current van. When bench charging my leisure battery I get a similar fully charged voltage across the terminals. But when I start the van, the B2B charger still manages to 'force' a charge of 5 or 6 amps into that fully charged battery. If the battery is left overnight in that further charged state then I get a voltage of 13 to 13.1 volts.

So this has left me asking the question; when is a battery fully charged?

 

It is also interesting that the Numax charges at 13.9v which is safe for all battery specs. (A flooded leisure battery can be charged at 14.6v and a sealed battery no higher than 14.2v because of gassing.) My current van's alternator charges at 13.9v, the same as the Numax charger. My B2B charger boosts that to 14.6v.

 

For me I haven't had to put the Numax on my leisure battery to fully charge for the past week it as the Victron state of charge controller tells me that the battery is fully charged. I worked on my own yesterday and drove the 3 miles home. My battery reads 12.94v this morning.

 

My son borrowed a car battery charger many years ago and never gave it back. I have thought about using that to bench charge my leisure battery a see what the difference is between that and the Numax.

 

 

Edited by spruce

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steve garwood
18 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

This battery charging story isn't as simple as it first seems.

 

This Numax charger I use does apparently fully charge my leisure battery. On the old 04 plate Citroen Relay I had for many years, the alternator never added any more charge to the fully charged leisure battery. The voltmeter always gave a voltage of 12.7 to 12.8v to show it was fully charged.

 

I have replaced that Voltage sensing relay on the old van with a Sterling battery to battery charger on my current van. When bench charging my leisure battery I get a similar fully charged voltage across the terminals. But when I start the van, the B2B charger still manages to 'force' a charge of 5 or 6 amps into that fully charged battery. If the battery is left overnight in that further charged state then I get a voltage of 13 to 13.1 volts.

So this has left me asking the question; when is a battery fully charged?

 

It is also interesting that the Nuxam charges at 13.9v which is safe for all battery specs. (A flooded leisure battery can be charged at 14.6v and a sealed battery no higher than 14.2v because of gassing.) My current van's alternator charges at 13.9v, the same as the Numax charger. My B2B charger boosts that to 14.6v.

 

My son borrowed a car battery charger many years ago and never gave it back. I have thought about using that to bench charge my leisure battery a see what the difference is between that and the Numax.

 

 

Well as myself and iron giant bought these numax chargers on your recommendation @spruce, if you find they are not correct, presumably you’ll be happy to reimburse us? 😘😂

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spruce
3 minutes ago, steve garwood said:

Well as myself and iron giant bought these numax chargers on your recommendation @spruce, if you find they are not correct, presumably you’ll be happy to reimburse us? 😘😂

 

I will still recommend this as a suitable leisure battery charger.

 

What I do find fascinating is that the electronics in this Sterling unit are amazing. On the old van I occasionally saw an amperage charge of 22 amps after a fully day's work which quickly dropped back to 8 or 9 amps. This Sterling unit will push 38 amps into the battery to begin with after a full day and will slowly drop back to a lower amperage charge.

 

I've always thought of a battery as I would a glass. If you 3/4 fill the glass then the glass its 3/4s full. If you fill the glass completely to the top then its full. But a battery isn't like that. Your glass can be 80% full in battery terms and still be full.

 

I would be very interested to hear what @Pjj's engineer has come up with the keep his vans running. He uses much more power a day than we ever will.

 

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Davy G

I must be extremely lucky in that up to now I have never needed to mains charge the batteries in my work van since fitting a second battery in parallel with the original one which was unable to cope on its own after a couple of years use. Both batteries are Numax 110 or 115ah (I can't remember which and they're boxed in under a shelf). I don't do especially long mileage but the Durite SCR keeps them topped up.

 

We're two operators each with our own workstation (side door and back door). Our standard readings on the Varistream controllers is 12.4-12.7v. Recently I mains charged them in situ using a Durite smart charger as an experiment to see whether I ought to be bench charging them periodically as I know several of you do.

 

I have a colour coded fuse protected charging point fitted near the back doors for easy charging should it be needed (our Vito van is fitted so everything is reachable from outside) this is simply two bolts and nuts fitted through a wooden shelving end, one with red shrink tube and one with blue. Coloured wires from the bolts going to one of the batteries (both linked) with a fuse close to the battery on the positive. 

 

The result of the bench test. 

After an overnight charge the readings from memory were something around 13.7v. After a few hours work they were back to around 12.4-12.7v and have remained at that since, so I I'm happy the SCR is coping fine. The only draw from the batteries is our two pumps. Of course it's different for those with electric reels and/or electrically controlled hot water systems needing much more capacity. 

The conclusion I have come to is; that it's better to have as much storage capacity as sensibly possible in the batteries. Two batteries are better than one, even if one is a bit tired. Don't be in a hurry to scrap an older battery unless it's really had it. Fit a Durite SCR if possible. Fit a fuse protected charging point if the batteries are at all awkward to get to. 

 

Bit of a lecture, for which I apologise. We're all on the same side trying to help each other. 🙂

 

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Den

Personally I didn’t bother with a scr this time as I didn’t do enough mileage to make a difference on my last set up..  we use have  pumps and two electric reels, I just use my smart charger each night takes a few seconds to run the extension reel out each night. 

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Pjj
8 hours ago, spruce said:

 

I will still recommend this as a suitable leisure battery charger.

 

What I do find fascinating is that the electronics in this Sterling unit are amazing. On the old van I occasionally saw an amperage charge of 22 amps after a fully day's work which quickly dropped back to 8 or 9 amps. This Sterling unit will push 38 amps into the battery to begin with after a full day and will slowly drop back to a lower amperage charge.

 

I've always thought of a battery as I would a glass. If you 3/4 fill the glass then the glass its 3/4s full. If you fill the glass completely to the top then its full. But a battery isn't like that. Your glass can be 80% full in battery terms and still be full.

 

I would be very interested to hear what @Pjj's engineer has come up with the keep his vans running. He uses much more power a day than we ever will.

 

 

 

I have absolutely no idear how it works a friend of mine who is a marine electrician and works on multi million pound super yachts recommend and fitted my charging system it is totally separate  to the van electrics as when I bought the van renault said if I connected anything from the van to my system it would invalidate the warrantee , it was apparently one of the first vans to use this kinetic charging set up , this is what my mate fitted and has kept the batteries in top condition working 8 hours a day 5 days a week with two - three pumps and a 9 kw boiler running continuously, all I do know it that the charger is programmed to the specific batteries that I have and charges them according to what they need you can also have flat batteries and plug the charger in and everything will run as if the batteries are fully charged without causing a power surge , as I say I don't understand it at all 😂😂😂 , it’s difficult  get a decent picture of it as it’s right by all the rose and tank but hopefully you can see enough of it .

7FD1262D-7C16-4E55-AA3A-98566166387D.jpeg

7491F3A7-BA40-4BE0-A3BB-3573B2329A03.jpeg

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Den
4 minutes ago, Pjj said:

 

 

I have absolutely no idear how it works a friend of mine who is a marine electrician and works on multi million pound super yachts recommend and fitted my charging system it is totally separate  to the van electrics as when I bought the van renault said if I connected anything from the van to my system it would invalidate the warrantee , it was apparently one of the first vans to use this kinetic charging set up , this is what my mate fitted and has kept the batteries in top condition working 8 hours a day 5 days a week with two - three pumps and a 9 kw boiler running continuously, all I do know it that the charger is programmed to the specific batteries that I have and charges them according to what they need you can also have flat batteries and plug the charger in and everything will run as if the batteries are fully charged without causing a power surge , as I say I don't understand it at all 😂😂😂 , it’s difficult  get a decent picture of it as it’s right by all the rose and tank but hopefully you can see enough of it .

7FD1262D-7C16-4E55-AA3A-98566166387D.jpeg

7491F3A7-BA40-4BE0-A3BB-3573B2329A03.jpeg

Haven’t a clue what it is but looks very impressive 👍

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Pjj
30 minutes ago, Den said:

Haven’t a clue what it is but looks very impressive 👍

 

 

Lol I feel the same 😂😂😂 was quite expensive though 😬😬

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Davy G

Jeez! I was proud of my partly diy charging system. 

Deflated now 😧

 

That's some impressive system, fair play!🙂👍

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spruce
4 hours ago, Pjj said:

 

 

I have absolutely no idear how it works a friend of mine who is a marine electrician and works on multi million pound super yachts recommend and fitted my charging system it is totally separate  to the van electrics as when I bought the van renault said if I connected anything from the van to my system it would invalidate the warrantee , it was apparently one of the first vans to use this kinetic charging set up , this is what my mate fitted and has kept the batteries in top condition working 8 hours a day 5 days a week with two - three pumps and a 9 kw boiler running continuously, all I do know it that the charger is programmed to the specific batteries that I have and charges them according to what they need you can also have flat batteries and plug the charger in and everything will run as if the batteries are fully charged without causing a power surge , as I say I don't understand it at all 😂😂😂 , it’s difficult  get a decent picture of it as it’s right by all the rose and tank but hopefully you can see enough of it .

7FD1262D-7C16-4E55-AA3A-98566166387D.jpeg

7491F3A7-BA40-4BE0-A3BB-3573B2329A03.jpeg

 

This is a mains charger isn't it. It works on a 'hookup' or in marine speak, 'shore power'.

 

Our poor simple Numax chargers wouldn't stand a chance against this but at over £275.00; phew!

 

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Pjj
3 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

This is a mains charger isn't it. It works on a 'hookup' or in marine speak, 'shore power'.

 

Our poor simple Numax chargers wouldn't stand a chance against this but at over £275.00; phew!

 

 

 

Yes mains power or you can run it off a genie as well , it cost a lot more than that’s just the charger part , there is all the monitoring and fuse box system as well it’s like looking in a space craft 😂😂😂😂

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AGlassAct

What batteries do you have @Pjj . It’s a similar Sterling charger to what I have although I have an add on that tells you remotely what’s happening to the batteries (which is a waste of time!!) It’s a 40amp charger if I remember correctly - I have a separate 32amp electric circuit with round 32amp connectors that plug straight in to my van. Normal house electrics and a 13amp 3 pin plug really aren’t adequate for a battery bank of more than two batteries.

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Pjj
2 minutes ago, AGlassAct said:

What batteries do you have @Pjj . It’s a similar Sterling charger to what I have although I have an add on that tells you remotely what’s happening to the batteries (which is a waste of time!!) It’s a 40amp charger if I remember correctly - I have a separate 32amp electric circuit with round 32amp connectors that plug straight in to my van. Normal house electrics and a 13amp 3 pin plug really aren’t adequate for a battery bank of more than two batteries.

 

 

They are haze 180 amp gell heavy duty batteries 

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