Anyone buy stocks or shares?

[Chris34]

Yeah pump and dump are fine if you have the intel on how long to pump before you dump!

I've been playing around with Thinkorswim paper money buying options, my head feels like it's going to explode with understanding how options work. I've got the basics so far

In the end I have managed to sign up with Citiindex.  It's spread betting not share trading, so you never own any shares.  Aswell as the standard spread bets that are on offer they also do option trading, they also do a 'day trading' one.  It does kind of explode your mind but for now I'm just concentrating on the standard spread betting whilst keeping an eye on options trading, picking up the info bit by bit so my brain doesn't explode.

What I like about spread betting is any winnings are tax free.  With shares you have to pay your taxes which is a big deal.

So far I've put money on bets that will end in June, I've picked all these to go up.

Tesco

Lloyds Bank

Marks and Spencer

Morrisons

IAG

I've only put small risk on them, so max loss is 250 max gain is 150 to 300.  My goal is to add as many companies as I think worthwhile, then once I struggle to find more companies worthwhile I'll increase my amount in each company.

If I was actually buying shares then IAG and Lloyds bank look very good long term options.  Both are likely to bounce back when normality resumes and both paid high dividends when looking at todays price, so if it bounces back to normal and you've put a good amount in at this cheap price then when the dividends start back again you can be looking at a good high percentage of around 10 percent maybe higher per year just for holding the shares.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

In the end I have managed to sign up with Citiindex.  It's spread betting not share trading, so you never own any shares.  Aswell as the standard spread bets that are on offer they also do option trading, they also do a 'day trading' one.  It does kind of explode your mind but for now I'm just concentrating on the standard spread betting whilst keeping an eye on options trading, picking up the info bit by bit so my brain doesn't explode.

What I like about spread betting is any winnings are tax free.  With shares you have to pay your taxes which is a big deal.

So far I've put money on bets that will end in June, I've picked all these to go up.

Tesco

Lloyds Bank

Marks and Spencer

Morrisons

IAG

I've only put small risk on them, so max loss is 250 max gain is 150 to 300.  My goal is to add as many companies as I think worthwhile, then once I struggle to find more companies worthwhile I'll increase my amount in each company.

If I was actually buying shares then IAG and Lloyds bank look very good long term options.  Both are likely to bounce back when normality resumes and both paid high dividends when looking at todays price, so if it bounces back to normal and you've put a good amount in at this cheap price then when the dividends start back again you can be looking at a good high percentage of around 10 percent maybe higher per year just for holding the shares.

90% of folk lose money from spreadbetting because the time frame is to short. When I traded futures the time frame was 3 months with a very small spread. I bet you lose all your money in a month?

 

[Chris34]

90% of folk lose money from spreadbetting because the time frame is to short. When I traded futures the time frame was 3 months with a very small spread. I bet you lose all your money in a month?

The thing is if you don't have a strategy of when to sell and when to buy then you will stand a higher chance of losing whether that's shares or spread betting.  Like buying shares, if the price drops over 3 months then how long will you hold them for?  Realistically if the share price has dropped over 3 months then you have got it wrong and should have traded out by then, holding the shares any longer just ties up the money in a stock that is not performing, they could continue to go down and stay down for years.  The benefit of spread betting is that it's time limited, so you don't hold dead stocks, yes this might mean a heavy loss but losses are inevitable, the goal is to win more than you lose.

I'm confident I've got a good strategy.  Personally I think it's dead easy at the moment, most stocks can only go up as the economy starts to go more 'normal' with the vaccine roll outs.  It's in three months when predicting whether they will go up or down will be the hard part.

 

[JEM]

PUT means you want the instrument to go down and a CALL you want it to go up. CALLs are good because you can have unlimited gains. ?

Yeah that is the appeal of trying options

What platform have you used to play around with options

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Yeah that is the appeal of trying options

What platform have you used to play around with options

I was with Man Financial but they began to use clients money to trade themselves and went bust. I was lucky and never lost much but it made me think. We all think our money is safe with these companies but far from it, I quickly realised. All the accounts were frozen and no one could get their money out until after a very long process. The rich have to use JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs but their fees are high. The more money you have the harder it is to put it somewhere safe without high costs. The Merchant Banks know this all too well.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

The thing is if you don't have a strategy of when to sell and when to buy then you will stand a higher chance of losing whether that's shares or spread betting.  Like buying shares, if the price drops over 3 months then how long will you hold them for?  Realistically if the share price has dropped over 3 months then you have got it wrong and should have traded out by then, holding the shares any longer just ties up the money in a stock that is not performing, they could continue to go down and stay down for years.  The benefit of spread betting is that it's time limited, so you don't hold dead stocks, yes this might mean a heavy loss but losses are inevitable, the goal is to win more than you lose.

I'm confident I've got a good strategy.  Personally I think it's dead easy at the moment, most stocks can only go up as the economy starts to go more 'normal' with the vaccine roll outs.  It's in three months when predicting whether they will go up or down will be the hard part.

Yes I thought the same. Reason folk, pension funds and investment funds hold shares is for one reason and one reason only? To collect the dividend every 3 months or yearly. Capital appreciation is a bonus over the long term. Why hold a share if its not paying you a dividend when one is? You may make money at the moment but you will learn the hard way like I did. I paid £5k to go on a course and read all the books but in the end it all comes down to timing. When you get a big win you become over confident and take more risk and eventually lose it all like Nick Leeson.  

 

[Chris34]

Yes I thought the same. Reason folk, pension funds and investment funds hold shares is for one reason and one reason only? To collect the dividend every 3 months or yearly. Capital appreciation is a bonus over the long term. Why hold a share if its not paying you a dividend when one is? You may make money at the moment but you will learn the hard way like I did. I paid £5k to go on a course and read all the books but in the end it all comes down to timing. When you get a big win you become over confident and take more risk and eventually lose it all like Nick Leeson.  

I won't learn the hard way, I'm fully aware of the risks.  I'm not a gambler but have studied gambling intensively for years, I've spent thousands of hours trying to come up with systems to win on anything from football to the roulette wheel.  I've gone into great depth with my own systems and tried them without using any money.  

My theory is that the price in betting can't be perfect all of the time, during a football match the price fluctuates wildly, as such the odds offered are more likely to be wrong, so I had strategies to work out a more accurate figure and then decide if the odds were too high or too low.

I've done that research for years as like a hobby, but knowing that if I can outsmart the market then the rewards would be unlimited.  However when I started the window cleaning I decided to just put it all to one side while I focused on growing my business.  It also didn't fill me with a sense of achievement that growing the business does, even if I cracked it and made ridiculous amounts of money I wouldn't have felt like I had earned it. 

But now the window cleaning is getting to a point where I can see me achieving what I set out to achieve I'm now looking at making the money work for me.

Spread betting suits these systems I was working on, they need tweaking to suit how the spread bets work but I can't see why they won't work.  Certainly won't be losing lots of money, at worst I'll just be wasting my time for zero gain to a slight loss, but it's something that I enjoy so I'm happy to spend the time.  

But yeah, I'm no 'newbie' to the betting scene, I know exactly how gambling addictions occur and the risks involved.  That's why I'm only betting in small amounts to test the system.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I won't learn the hard way, I'm fully aware of the risks.  I'm not a gambler but have studied gambling intensively for years, I've spent thousands of hours trying to come up with systems to win on anything from football to the roulette wheel.  I've gone into great depth with my own systems and tried them without using any money.  

My theory is that the price in betting can't be perfect all of the time, during a football match the price fluctuates wildly, as such the odds offered are more likely to be wrong, so I had strategies to work out a more accurate figure and then decide if the odds were too high or too low.

I've done that research for years as like a hobby, but knowing that if I can outsmart the market then the rewards would be unlimited.  However when I started the window cleaning I decided to just put it all to one side while I focused on growing my business.  It also didn't fill me with a sense of achievement that growing the business does, even if I cracked it and made ridiculous amounts of money I wouldn't have felt like I had earned it. 

But now the window cleaning is getting to a point where I can see me achieving what I set out to achieve I'm now looking at making the money work for me.

Spread betting suits these systems I was working on, they need tweaking to suit how the spread bets work but I can't see why they won't work.  Certainly won't be losing lots of money, at worst I'll just be wasting my time for zero gain to a slight loss, but it's something that I enjoy so I'm happy to spend the time.  

But yeah, I'm no 'newbie' to the betting scene, I know exactly how gambling addictions occur and the risks involved.  That's why I'm only betting in small amounts to test the system.

I've done it all before and can tell you how it will turn out. Paper trading is easy because no emotion is involved. Human beings are emotional animals and react emotionally. That's the reason MB have been using algorithms to let computers complete the trade. You were right that ' You will never make it without a plan' 

The only honest thing is the market is the trend.

It will be good to hear how you get on and I hope you do well. ? 

 

[Patrick Flaherty]

I suspect the first of many to be investigated !!!!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56106824

 

[Chris34]

I suspect the first of many to be investigated !!!!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56106824

Yeah I've not looked into the legalities, but I have noticed that on the Motley Fool when they're suggesting a share that could perform well at the bottom of the article it says the author of the article doesn't currently own any shares in the company.  It makes sense but you just wonder where having a chat on a forum to officially publishing recommendations, you wonder where the law ends and general chit chat starts.  Like if the shares that I pointed out went up surely I'm guilty under the same law?  But then you have these 'new' trading apps that let you copy share buying off the best performing trader, you would think that's more or less the same thing?  Might not be saying it out aloud but the net result is market manipulation.

 

[Patrick Flaherty]

Chris34..

Well said, a very thin line between breaking the law and NOT. I know the Yanks punish this kind of thing severely..

 

[JEM]

It's easy when starting out to fall into the hysteria of a stock.

I do watch a guy on YouTube and he is transparent with saying "it could be one to get into but i don't currently have any positions"

He does say and show what positions he has.

It is so difficult to get unbiased opinions from the net 

 

[Chris34]

It's easy when starting out to fall into the hysteria of a stock.

I do watch a guy on YouTube and he is transparent with saying "it could be one to get into but i don't currently have any positions"

He does say and show what positions he has.

It is so difficult to get unbiased opinions from the net 

When I had my Ebay business selling shoes there was a tendency to try and overspend on the current seasons stock through fear of missing out when they inevitably run out.  What I learned however is that there will always be a buying opportunity, this is the same for shares.  The ability to remove your emotions and not get carried away is most peoples downfall, but I deal with it by reminding myself that there will always be another opportunity further down the line.

Those picks that I made are all doing well.  Tesco's is the only one doing bad but they complicated everything by giving out a one off dividend of 50p per share for the sale of its asian business.  

Bought into rolls royce yesterday and that's going strong after yesterdays lock down announcement, already up 12% since I bought in.  Think I'll tap out at 130 although I'm tempted to hold.  It's very hard to know where to draw the line.  It could go all the way to 200.  

IAG I'll tap out around 250 to 300.

All spread bets so high leverage and no tax.  It's a no brainer at the moment though, be a lot harder when all these cheap stocks start rising.  I reckon around a third below their pre covid peak is a safe limit.

 

[JEM]

Thought i'd update what stocks i'm in

Still in AMC 100 shares, still waiting for the short squeeze to happen! Worse case price will get back up to pre covid as a lot of the theatres are opening in the USA now.

I'm in HCMC have 40,000 shares there is an ongoing court case with patent infringements but with court cases it could take a while to sort itself out.

And i'm in Prem which is Premier African minerals, lots of big news with that

 -EPO officially stated for release this Friday
-Granting mining to a massive amount of lithium and other valuable resources
-Lithium prices at record highs and ever climbing due to big and rising demand from EV manufacturers
-EV manufacturers looking to JV
-Big investors holding and buying more
-PREM is debt free

Fingers crossed one of them comes good for me ?

 

[sundance]

Time to BUY before we start to recover 

Run out of dry powder  

 

[Chris34]

Time to BUY before we start to recover 

Run out of dry powder  

You could pretty much buy anything at the moment and make money.  Only way is up for the foreseeable for most share prices.  

Thought i'd update what stocks i'm in

Still in AMC 100 shares, still waiting for the short squeeze to happen! Worse case price will get back up to pre covid as a lot of the theatres are opening in the USA now.

I'm in HCMC have 40,000 shares there is an ongoing court case with patent infringements but with court cases it could take a while to sort itself out.

And i'm in Prem which is Premier African minerals, lots of big news with that

 -EPO officially stated for release this Friday
-Granting mining to a massive amount of lithium and other valuable resources
-Lithium prices at record highs and ever climbing due to big and rising demand from EV manufacturers
-EV manufacturers looking to JV
-Big investors holding and buying more
-PREM is debt free

Fingers crossed one of them comes good for me ?

That's the key to successful trading, spread the eggs over many baskets.  I'm spread betting so these cheap stocks are not in my interest to try and make money, buying shares is obviously a different matter.  

Like I bet on Barclays going up last week and put a 10 point gain limit on it, it went up 10 points and I took the profit [only small amount], but I could have bet £1,000 per point and made £10,000.

If I had bought £1,000 shares in barclays and sold when the price went up 10 points then I would have only made around £50 profit.

So when buying shares I think it's better to choose the cheap higher risk shares, £1,000 on a 12p share can quickly release a decent profit compared to shares that are around the £1.00 and above level.  Obviously it's higher risk but if you do your homework I think it's the best method when buying shares.

Mine are ticking along nicely.  I initially credited my account with £500 and it's now over £700 in less than a month.  Try getting that sort of return from a bank account.  I'm gradually increasing the size of the bets but I'm taking it easy and careful.  Most of all though I'm enjoying it, I've always had an interest for this type of stuff so it's just like a hobby that tests my brain a bit.

 

[Patrick Flaherty]

You could pretty much buy anything at the moment and make money.  Only way is up for the foreseeable for most share prices.  

That's the key to successful trading, spread the eggs over many baskets.  I'm spread betting so these cheap stocks are not in my interest to try and make money, buying shares is obviously a different matter.  

Like I bet on Barclays going up last week and put a 10 point gain limit on it, it went up 10 points and I took the profit [only small amount], but I could have bet £1,000 per point and made £10,000.

If I had bought £1,000 shares in barclays and sold when the price went up 10 points then I would have only made around £50 profit.

So when buying shares I think it's better to choose the cheap higher risk shares, £1,000 on a 12p share can quickly release a decent profit compared to shares that are around the £1.00 and above level.  Obviously it's higher risk but if you do your homework I think it's the best method when buying shares.

Mine are ticking along nicely.  I initially credited my account with £500 and it's now over £700 in less than a month.  Try getting that sort of return from a bank account.  I'm gradually increasing the size of the bets but I'm taking it easy and careful.  Most of all though I'm enjoying it, I've always had an interest for this type of stuff so it's just like a hobby that tests my brain a bit.

Good luck Chris....you may of seen my earlier posts. I am very active in the world of shares. I have a SIPP, ISA, Trading and spread betting accounts and and access them daily to keep on top of things.