Are window cleaners still allowed to work during Coronavirus (Covid-19)?

[BobR]

Hi all. My first post and what a time to do it! ? 5 years a windy, doing it the old fashioned way. Not kicking butt out there but making an honest living enough... or was. Think this post is most probably the most pressing/important one to get rolling unfortunately.  Lots of views on the topic and this is just my little two pennies worth. There's no definitive answer to be gained from social networks and bits of press snippets. What the government says has to be followed for a coordinated plan otherwise its chaos, indecision and in-fighting. They have all sorts of organizations, departments and planners formulating there overall plan. 3d modelling of where it might all go and much much more. Their current advice on .Gov reads absolutely we can and should work being that we're not on the prohibited list as far as I've read on there - If you cannot work from home, that we're not showing any symptoms and can follow their guidelines to keep ourselves and others safe as possible while doing our work. I for one, didn't work for the first couple of days after Boris's original speech concerning the lockdown. Like us all had no idea of finacial help at that time but I would of followed through all the same. 'Doing what I'm told/advised'. Thing is I've been watching and reading intensively ever since and his original message of essential/key workers has been dropped altogether. The government website spells it out a lot clearer now and indeed we are allowed to work as are other business's and trades if you go by that websites advice to the public which I am personally, not hearsay and social sites. Principles and morals might be another matter, some can affford, some can't there, but others are being a little more rational to their own plight for now and the very long term. Throughout the many posts on this thread I've not really read too many thorough plans to lessen the chance of contamination in our work. Personally, I work alone, I've set up running water in my van, which means I soap and wash my hands just how the guidelines advise. I do this before I start a job and after too, before eating, drinking all sorts of times through the day. I've hand sanitizer on me for any inbetweens moments. I take cash mainly and pick it up off the floor or wherever with a dog poop bag. Throw that into a large bag in the van and won't touch for a number of days. Use another poop bag for the next house and so on. My customers know I'm coming so, I'm not having to touch many gates, bins or whatever cus I've pre-planned with my customers. If I do touch something obviously frequently used, I'm doing it where they are very unlikely to of been touched recently (say nudge a bin with my leg, swing a gate open from the bottom, then I use my sanitizer anyway. I only work local and don't go to work out of my small town. My van is filled to the brim with diesel so won't be back and forth to the pumps especially with small local mileage. I've done other precautions too, but my virgin post is an essay enough already lol. What I'm really trying to say, is its not immoral or unprincipled to be guided by your government's and their advisors/partners advice here. Even Dr, Hillary said the other day we are low risk workers lol and if you take extreme precaution in some shape or form at work as I do you can plod along making some sort of living even its nowhere near what it was due to all this messing about as I'm doing. This is a long term problem, hence the strategy put into action by the government and by me personally. This strategy also involves people's personal economic futures as well as that of the country which I want to do well but obviously with the least number of tragic health outcomes as is realistically feasible. Absolutely repects folks who down tools for their own principles/beliefs/reasons but I also repect the flip side individuals opinions on here as I feel no one is actually wrong currently. I'll add when the policy given to Jo public changes again I'll be following to the letter as best I understand it and as best I can. If im off work from there on I'll have to deal with that shaky bridge then. Till then or till plod wrongly stops me I'll continue plugging away safely as possible making the best of a very dire situation.

Cheers without the beers!

 

[ks789]

Hopefully all this manufacturing of virus's and germs will be stopped. But I doubt it. 

 

[RWCleaning]

So we are allowed to work then ? ????

Yes. @Pjj said we should. 

 

[Pjj]

Do you think the world's governments would close the planet down, tank the economy by trillions, kill whole industries, build hospitals and morgues in days on a whim? 

The penny dropped with me when I saw the infection potential in any population 60/80% rather than 12/15% in a normal round of flu. That makes the numbers staggering, this creates an impossible treatment load for any health system in any country.

The death toll in Italy is over 9000 so far, and despite the most extreme mitigating measures employed in modern times in Europe against a pandemic. Over ten percent of cases are resulting in death in Italy, the highest anywhere. What would the death toll be without the lockdown? Unfortunately we might be about to find out from the US and UK what results from less strict measures than those applied in Italy and Spain. It is nothing like seasonal flu.

The reason the death rate has been that high in Italy is due to the age of ones in those areas most are elderly so you would expect a higher death rate it will be exact the same hear most not all I accept will be older ones or ones with underlying health issues usually involving a respiratory illness , like asthma, copd, emphysema,and other such ailments, the death rate from the common cold dies fluctuate quite dramatically from year to year , far more people world wide die from that each year than will die from covid 19 , just take a look at the figures it’s there for  all to see , covid 19 is in most people only very mild symptoms and many don’t  evan know that they have had it , many would continue to work if they had a normal cold many with covid 19 are probably doing exactly the same now without realising they have it and are passing it on to anyone they come into contact with , it will spread rapidly throughout the world as we have no immunity to it as it’s a new bug , given a few years time it will will be just another cold , but at the moment it’s a pandemic 

 

[Doo]

I have not worked all week but waited to see how things were panning out before I contacted the customers I have numbers for to say I'll not be back till the situation improves and we are over the worst. 

A few that transfer cash said they will keep paying every month and the rest were supportive and said I had made the correct decision . 

I feel much better for contacting them as I said in a previous post that I was worried other window cleaners would maybe pick at my rounds .

But I think I'm well liked by my punters so as someone pointed out in an earlier reply if you do a good job are liked and trusted I'll lose no customers. 

This is my decision and I'm happy with it and I have no problem with guys that go out. 

My daughter's window cleaner was out collecting last night and was stood right at the door also put his hand out for the cash ... This is dangerous my son in law told him to get back and put the money on the step ... This cleaner is my cousin ?

 

[Pjj]

Do you think the world's governments would close the planet down, tank the economy by trillions, kill whole industries, build hospitals and morgues in days on a whim? 

The penny dropped with me when I saw the infection potential in any population 60/80% rather than 12/15% in a normal round of flu. That makes the numbers staggering, this creates an impossible treatment load for any health system in any country.

The death toll in Italy is over 9000 so far, and despite the most extreme mitigating measures employed in modern times in Europe against a pandemic. Over ten percent of cases are resulting in death in Italy, the highest anywhere. What would the death toll be without the lockdown? Unfortunately we might be about to find out from the US and UK what results from less strict measures than those applied in Italy and Spain. It is nothing like seasonal flu.

The population of Italy is 60 million so 9000 dearth’s although sad is a very small number 

Yes. @Pjj said we should. 

Didn’t say that at all ???

 

[Skxawng]

I f you read through all 65 pages you will get what the general consensus is ?

It's a good job we can't work as it's a full time job keeping up with this thread! ?

Well you can send this one back to him then, the police enforce the law they don't legislate it, this is clear to me they want you to work. 

Very true, but the problem is it's not the Government legislators Manning road blocks and fining people. It's the Police, and many accounts on here have shown that they don't care if you show them screenshots of GOV website, they'll fine you anyway. And the police across the country are all working from the same instructions to only let essential workers travel.

It's obviously contradicting the GOV website but what can you do? At the end of the day it's the ones with the power to enforce it that you have to listen to.

 

[Delabrum]

I have a story to relay that has happened to me today that will hopefully have an impact on those who are deciding to still work.

I cleaned the windows of a 70/75 year old lady a week gone Friday (20th). Whilst I was there, her granddaughter turned up who I know a little bit. She was being pretty responsible - she opened the garden gate and stood at the bottom of the path, maybe 3 metres from her grandma and 2 or so from me. We chatted for a few minutes. I cleaned the bungalow and by the time I was done the granddaughter had left. Thinking back, I’m 99% sure she had closed the garden gate and I reopened it - by hand obviously.

Just heard today the granddaughter has CO-VID. I feel fine and it was 8 days ago. But I worked the rest of Friday and all of the following Monday.

Can you imagine if I’d started feeling ill during the week? I was being very cautious but I’m certain I would have passed it on to a customer in that time. I was wiping money, keeping my distance and trying to encourage everyone to pay online. But I can think of a few occasions On Friday/Monday where I was taken unawares by customers either in the back garden and when they opened a door to come and say hello. 

The more time passes the more I know I’ve done the right thing. I understand people with no money who have to work. But I would urge all of you to have a good think about whether getting into debt for 6-8 weeks (before our grants come through) is worth potentially killing someone.

 

[Jjamie]

Yes. @Pjj said we should. 

Do you think I could have a permission slip ? ??

 

[Tormato]

The reason the death rate has been that high in Italy is due to the age of ones in those areas most are elderly so you would expect a higher death rate it will be exact the same hear most not all I accept will be older ones or ones with underlying health issues usually involving a respiratory illness , like asthma, copd, emphysema,and other such ailments, the death rate from the common cold dies fluctuate quite dramatically from year to year , far more people world wide die from that each year than will die from covid 19 , just take a look at the figures it’s there for  all to see , covid 19 is in most people only very mild symptoms and many don’t  evan know that they have had it , many would continue to work if they had a normal cold many with covid 19 are probably doing exactly the same now without realising they have it and are passing it on to anyone they come into contact with , it will spread rapidly throughout the world as we have no immunity to it as it’s a new bug , given a few years time it will will be just another cold , but at the moment it’s a pandemic 

You finish by saying at the moment it's a pandemic.

Sort of answers things

 

[ks789]

Got my reply from suffolk police and it said ' its  very new legislation and who is actually allowed to work still appears to be under review '

It went on to say ' From what I can see at this time window cleaners are allowed to continue to work, but strict social distancing must be maintained and check your customers still want you to attend '

So not much that we didnt know. just that some forces seem to interpret it a bit different. To be fair, yorkshire and cornwall always were kind of different nations anyway, after their independance etc ? no offence. just havin a laugh there, I was gonna put different breeds, no but seriously, either go for it or dont ( for now) But i'd get as much done as you can quick as this may change, our death rates are spiraling and to placate/be seen to be doing something they will prob put all on house arrest.

Though if this all went on too long, I could see major civil disorder spark off in a lot of major cities. Come the hot summer, many wont put up with being banged up indoors. 

 

[THL4KEL]

What does not help matters is the media and their sensationalist stories where they claim someone has died of corona in their title then a lot lower down it is mentioned the deceased has not been tested for corona. (27 year in Bangor N Wales)

1400 people die every day in England, that was prior to corona.

They haven't even had the capability to test for it, NHS workers are still waiting for the test yet they are confirming deaths as corona.

Was talking to one of my customers yesterday, her family is on lock down due her toddler having a temperature after having one of his injections.  That is normal. But that is being classed as a corona case.

 

[Pjj]

Do you think I could have a permission slip ? ??

Lol it’s up to everyone do  what they think is right  , for us it was an easy decision I had a chat with the lads all felt it was morally wrong to work , so we have stopped for the foreseeable future , down hear it would be difficult to work due to public pressure and road blocks , there is virtually no movement of people or vehicles where I am if I tried to pull up in a road and work I would be strung up from the nearest lamppost  ??

 

[Andrew called my Father]

I have a story to relay that has happened to me today that will hopefully have an impact on those who are deciding to still work.

I cleaned the windows of a 70/75 year old lady a week gone Friday (20th). Whilst I was there, her granddaughter turned up who I know a little bit. She was being pretty responsible - she opened the garden gate and stood at the bottom of the path, maybe 3 metres from her grandma and 2 or so from me. We chatted for a few minutes. I cleaned the bungalow and by the time I was done the granddaughter had left. Thinking back, I’m 99% sure she had closed the garden gate and I reopened it - by hand obviously.

Just heard today the granddaughter has CO-VID. I feel fine and it was 8 days ago. But I worked the rest of Friday and all of the following Monday.

Can you imagine if I’d started feeling ill during the week? I was being very cautious but I’m certain I would have passed it on to a customer in that time. I was wiping money, keeping my distance and trying to encourage everyone to pay online. But I can think of a few occasions On Friday/Monday where I was taken unawares by customers either in the back garden and when they opened a door to come and say hello. 

The more time passes the more I know I’ve done the right thing. I understand people with no money who have to work. But I would urge all of you to have a good think about whether getting into debt for 6-8 weeks (before our grants come through) is worth potentially killing someone.

 

[Andrew called my Father]

This is it........

 

[Delabrum]

What does not help matters is the media and their sensationalist stories where they claim someone has died of corona in their title then a lot lower down it is mentioned the deceased has not been tested for corona. (27 year in Bangor N Wales)

1400 people die every day in England, that was prior to corona.

They haven't even had the capability to test for it, NHS workers are still waiting for the test yet they are confirming deaths as corona.

Was talking to one of my customers yesterday, her family is on lock down due her toddler having a temperature after having one of his injections.  That is normal. But that is being classed as a corona case.

Did you actually see the projections for how many will die if the government doesn’t do anything? We’re talking a million people in the UK. That’s a million people who die without having a proper funeral and without being able to have their families by their sides. 

Surely we can all put up with this for a few months so we can keep the death rate down to 20/30,000?

I’m also sick of hearing the comparisons to swine flu. Yes, governments of the world let that run its course. Yes almost a billion people got it. But if they let that happen with this, the death rate would be astronomically higher than swine flu.

 

[Doo]

The biggest trad cleaner in my area, has about 6 lads working for him, has stopped working.

They can't travel together mate if he has that many workers he must have massive round so would be pointless him going out alone . 

 

[ks789]

The reason the death rate has been that high in Italy is due to the age of ones in those areas most are elderly so you would expect a higher death rate it will be exact the same hear most not all I accept will be older ones or ones with underlying health issues usually involving a respiratory illness , like asthma, copd, emphysema,and other such ailments, the death rate from the common cold dies fluctuate quite dramatically from year to year , far more people world wide die from that each year than will die from covid 19 , just take a look at the figures it’s there for  all to see , covid 19 is in most people only very mild symptoms and many don’t  evan know that they have had it , many would continue to work if they had a normal cold many with covid 19 are probably doing exactly the same now without realising they have it and are passing it on to anyone they come into contact with , it will spread rapidly throughout the world as we have no immunity to it as it’s a new bug , given a few years time it will will be just another cold , but at the moment it’s a pandemic 

I think we lost 28000 to flu in england in 2008/9 ? could be wrong but I believe thats what I saw.

 

[Pjj]

What does not help matters is the media and their sensationalist stories where they claim someone has died of corona in their title then a lot lower down it is mentioned the deceased has not been tested for corona. (27 year in Bangor N Wales)

1400 people die every day in England, that was prior to corona.

They haven't even had the capability to test for it, NHS workers are still waiting for the test yet they are confirming deaths as corona.

Was talking to one of my customers yesterday, her family is on lock down due her toddler having a temperature after having one of his injections.  That is normal. But that is being classed as a corona case.

Quite agree only a post-mortem can determine the cause if death not speculation , it’s sensationalism by the press in a lot of cases  

 

[Part Timer]

They can't travel together mate if he has that many workers he must have massive round so would be pointless him going out alone . 

He has a huge round, but I think he's chosen not to rather than believe he isn't allowed to.

 

[NewGuy]

I have a story to relay that has happened to me today that will hopefully have an impact on those who are deciding to still work.

I cleaned the windows of a 70/75 year old lady a week gone Friday (20th). Whilst I was there, her granddaughter turned up who I know a little bit. She was being pretty responsible - she opened the garden gate and stood at the bottom of the path, maybe 3 metres from her grandma and 2 or so from me. We chatted for a few minutes. I cleaned the bungalow and by the time I was done the granddaughter had left. Thinking back, I’m 99% sure she had closed the garden gate and I reopened it - by hand obviously.

Just heard today the granddaughter has CO-VID. I feel fine and it was 8 days ago. But I worked the rest of Friday and all of the following Monday.

Can you imagine if I’d started feeling ill during the week? I was being very cautious but I’m certain I would have passed it on to a customer in that time. I was wiping money, keeping my distance and trying to encourage everyone to pay online. But I can think of a few occasions On Friday/Monday where I was taken unawares by customers either in the back garden and when they opened a door to come and say hello. 

The more time passes the more I know I’ve done the right thing. I understand people with no money who have to work. But I would urge all of you to have a good think about whether getting into debt for 6-8 weeks (before our grants come through) is worth potentially killing someone.

I'm wearing disposable gloves and replacing them for each job - this will help alleviate the chances of spreading the virus.