Cold weather affecting pump?

[GSS Window Cleaning]

Hi don't know if I'm being paranoid but recently especially when cold I've noticed when I release the tap to allow the water to come through the brush it seems to take a few seconds longer to come out and the pressure is lower if that makes sense then I hear the pump kick in and it comes out as normal just wondered if it's anything to do with the cold or if you guys have experienced anything like that?

 

[spruce]

If you have a Spring or Varistream controller you notice the 4 sec maximum time delay more in the cold weather than when its warmer.

The hose on the hose reel is stiffer so doesn't expand with colder water like it does with warmer water in the summer. The expanded hose acts as a 'reservoir'. When you release the pressure by opening the tap the hose contracts and you don't notice that time delay as much as the 'excess water is pushed out.

Electronic flow controllers dead end on amperage draw of the motor rather than pressure controlled with a pressure switch. An electronic controller 'tests' the circuit with a pulse every 4 seconds to see if it can start the pump. If you opened the tap the moment the 'test' finished you have to wait for the next test pulse which will start the pump. By that time the water has probably stopped flowing out of the jets. That 4 seconds can seem like a lifetime.

If you open your tap just before the next pulse is sent, then you probably won't notice the slight delay.

Had you said that the pump is slower than it is in summer, then a cold battery losses around 25% of it's 'energy' or output performance and, as the water is more dense (ice is a solid), the pump has to work harder to do the same job, exacerbated by the cold hoses being less flexible.

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[Marko067]

Nicely explained Spruce.

Because I use a trolley with only 25 mtrs of PU hose which hardly expands under pressure, I don't have the benefit of that 'reservoir' as you put it, and that 4 second delay most times I turned it on drove me nuts especially when I was using a trigger. As you say that 4 secs seems like an eternity when you're constantly waiting for it. It slowed me down so much I had to take it off and fit my old analogue PF controller which still gives me instant response even after nine years. For a while I was trying to figure out how to build a 'reservoir' but gave up when I remembered my old controller.

 

[spruce]

Nicely explained Spruce.Because I use a trolley with only 25 mtrs of PU hose which hardly expands under pressure, I don't have the benefit of that 'reservoir' as you put it, and that 4 second delay most times I turned it on drove me nuts especially when I was using a trigger. As you say that 4 secs seems like an eternity when you're constantly waiting for it. It slowed me down so much I had to take it off and fit my old analogue PF controller which still gives me instant response even after nine years. For a while I was trying to figure out how to build a 'reservoir' but gave up when I remembered my old controller.

Funny you should say that @Marko067. The pause seemed to be more noticeable yesterday. I keeping thinking that a couple of vertical 22 mm lengths of copper tube in the van joined to the hose at the bottom before the van ports should work as a bit of a reservoir. Being sealed at the top, water under pressure would be forced up into the airspace and provide a bit of water to plug the 4 second gap when the Univalve is open.

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[Marko067]

What about a length of X hose? I thought about fitting a short length between my pump and pole hose if I could figure out how the connectors were fitted. I don't know whether this would work with hot water though.

 

[Poles Apart]

I use pole hose as my main hose and it's stiff in this weather, can't be @'rsed to take Kobolds apart to turn pressure down why didn't they leave access hole for screw silly Moos I'm goin ap the pab?

 

[GSS Window Cleaning]

Glad you cleared that up as was thinking I had damaged my pump due to cold weather. your right about theverything 4 second time delay tho it feels like 5 minutes lol is there no way of adjusting it on a varistream?

 

[Duncs]

thats why this forum is so gd having these guys knowledge to help us out

tryting to find this information without the forum would be load of hassle

well done guys:thumbsup:

 

[spruce]

Glad you cleared that up as was thinking I had damaged my pump due to cold weather. your right about theverything 4 second time delay tho it feels like 5 minutes lol is there no way of adjusting it on a varistream?

I'm sure there must be a way to change the software to accommodate that but I'm afraid that is miles above my old brain. Talking generally, these chip manufacturers have been going to great lengths to stop unauthorised access (by hackers) to protect programs installed on them.

If I watch my volt and amp meter gauge on the van, every time the Varistream sends a pulse to the pump it uses current. It is at least a couple of amps which is wasted current or battery power. Whilst its negligible, it still wasted current and goes against the principles of why you fitted a controller in the first place. I'm sure the designers thought of lots of issues us windie could experience so decided that the 4 second gap was the trade-off point. My old Varistream MK1 digital controllers use the same delay period as the new ones do. Experience in the field can be totally different to what the drawing board says, so I'm sure that if it was best to reduce that time then they would have by now.

(You could always send Williamson Pumps Technical Division an email asking if they can reprogram it for you. Whether its worth the effort is another story.

I sent them an email once regarding a technical issue regarding the 'latest' Varistream still using current even when switched off. We would loose 25% of an 85amph leisure battery's charge when the van stood for a week. We solved the problem by fitting an isolator switch between the battery and the Varistream which was switched off at night. Williamson pumps could have easily added a simple on/off switch to the controller so solve this, but they haven't. So they haven't taken the point I raised with them seriously. Give them their dues, they did respond to my enquiry almost immediately, but told me the current draw was negligible.)

Of course you could remove the Varistream altogether and replace it with a decent (not easy to find) PWM controller connected to the pressure switch of the pump. The PWM controller doesn't have dead ending, so you have to reconnect your pressure switch. However, on a Shurflo pump you can adjust the pressure switch down to 65 - 70 psi (from 100) to ease the current draw by the motor. You then use the controller to regulate the speed of the pump to suit your needs in the same way you do with a Varistream.

I'm not advocating this controller, but giving you a example. The trouble with Chinese electronics is that they over exaggerate the max amps of their products by at least x2. So this 40 amp controller is probably 15 to 20 amps max.

UK 10-50V 40A 2000W MAX DC Motor Speed Control PWM HHO RC Controller 12V 24V 48V | eBay

Here is an example of a controller aimed at window cleaners.

Water Fed Pole Window Cleaning Pump Controller Shurflo Wfp Trolley Tulsion Resin | eBay

However, my feeling is that this delay isn't the proverbial 'train smash'. It appears to be an irritation in winter for me rather than a serious issue. In other words, if my Varistream packed up tomorrow I would go buy another one knowing it had the 4 secs delay.

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[GSS Window Cleaning]

Off subject but how long does your 115ah battery last you from a full charge? mine lasts me a week working 6 hour days roughly. But noticed towards the end of the week I see the low voltage sign. Also when fully charged the viewing hole on the battery is black when it should be green. Cheers

 

[spruce]

Off subject but how long does your 115ah battery last you from a full charge? mine lasts me a week working 6 hour days roughly. But noticed towards the end of the week I see the low voltage sign. Also when fully charged the viewing hole on the battery is black when it should be green. Cheers

Leisure batteries need to be recharged asap. They should never be drained to below 50% charge if you want longevity out of them.

I don't know how long mine lasts to be honest as I never drain it. I have a split charge relay and in winter my battery gets recharged every night. Its not an issue as the van is on the driveway and I put a heater in the back anyway.

In the summer I recharge it every second night. It works for me as the first battery lasted 3 years and the second nearly 4 years. My current battery is 2 years old. My son has had the same battery for the last 6 years - although it hasn't done much work this last year. My son in law sold his van a few months ago and his battery was still performing ok and was 5 years old.

My son works with me mostly these days and so both my pumps are working. I have only ever seen the volt meter on the charger reading between 75% and full charge when I put the battery on to charge. Its never been below that.

I'm not sure how accurate that magic eye is tbh.

Although this article is primarily for caravan and motor home users/owners there is a lot of useful info in these 8 pages.

#33 A guide to leisure batteries - The Camping and Caravanning Club

An interesting point to remember is that a battery losses capacity in direct proportion to a drop in temperature.

So if your van is 6 degrees inside and your battery is the same temperature, it is no longer a 115 amph battery. Its down to 93 amph capacity. So this could also explain the low voltage warning on the controller at the end of the week. As a battery gets older it losses capacity anyway, so winter isn't a good time to be a battery.

 

[spruce]

If your battery stands on the floor of the van like mine does, then the metal floor is always colder than the inside of the van. I have my battery sitting on a piece of 10mm thick rubber matting which is a good insulator. A thick piece of wood would do a similar job.

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