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Facelift powered reel battery question
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AW Services
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Any motorised reel will consume current and drain a battery if not correctly maintained. A reels battery has to deal with increased current when the initial load of the hose pull is drawn in.
You also need to understand that an SCR split charge relay isn't your golden ticket as they don't have much impact on a batteries charge when your work is local and frequent start stop journeys. I'd also recommend looking into how leisure batteries and their voltage represents their state of charge. Poor understanding leads to a dangerously low and drained battery. @spruce created a useful post on voltages & state of charge percentages some time ago.
It's key to have a good quality home based battery charger with a high amperage based charged current to maintain any leisure battery. Not your average Ebay, Amazon or Halfords charger
Numax is the preferred choice within the trade
Note: an SCR can not be used on modern vans with a smart alternator, easy way to tell is if your van has adblue or a charge voltage that fluctuates when driving and the engine is under load. Not a constant 13.8 or 14v
Cleanco
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It will cause a significant load on your battery but a 110a battery will easily power a pump and power reel for more than a good days work if fully charged.
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I've always recommended a Numax combination battery, which has a CCA rating. It's a good combination battery as it's both a leisure battery and starter battery. But it isn't a perfect leisure battery or starter battery.
What it does provide is current output which will deal with the power requirements of an electric reel and every day pump usage. An electric reel doesn't draw that much current each day, tbh. The problem is the high initial moments on start up where the battery is basically dealing with a direct short.
As with all lead acid/calcium batteries, they won't accept a high charge rate. The fuller the battery charge is, the less rate of charge it will accept. To a limited extent, the charge rate of lead acid batteries are also affected by temperature, and they should be charged every night. It is also recommended that you only use a maximum of 50% of your battery's capacity.
As per @AW Services post, it is very important that you know the charge characteristics of your van's alternator are before adding a split charge relay.
Using a split charge relay when you need a battery 2 battery charger will destroy a leisure battery very quickly, especially if your van has regenerative braking.
My 62 plate Peugeot Boxer van has a standard alternator and I fitted with a Sterling BB1260 battery 2 battery charger. When I had a Numax lead acid battery I could tune my Sterling unit to suit the leisure battery I was using. For example, a sealed maintenance free battery should only be charged at 14.2v. A wet leisure battery (you can top it up with distilled water), can be charged at 14.6 volts. Now my Peugeot Boxer only charges the starter battery at 13.9v. My Sterling unit will boost the charge voltage higher to suit the leisure battery I'm using.
The previous van I had was a 04 plate Citroën Relay. That van's alternator output was 14.6v, a little high for a maintenance free leisure battery.
To be very honest, a split charge relay is a waste of money if you are looking for a way to fully recharge your battery via the van's alternator, and you only do short journeys.
windowcleaningforums.co.uk
Even though the post is over 7 years old, much of the information is still relevant. What I will do after this winter is add my findings on Lithium phosphate (LifePO4) batteries, one of which I'm currently using.
What it does provide is current output which will deal with the power requirements of an electric reel and every day pump usage. An electric reel doesn't draw that much current each day, tbh. The problem is the high initial moments on start up where the battery is basically dealing with a direct short.
As with all lead acid/calcium batteries, they won't accept a high charge rate. The fuller the battery charge is, the less rate of charge it will accept. To a limited extent, the charge rate of lead acid batteries are also affected by temperature, and they should be charged every night. It is also recommended that you only use a maximum of 50% of your battery's capacity.
As per @AW Services post, it is very important that you know the charge characteristics of your van's alternator are before adding a split charge relay.
Using a split charge relay when you need a battery 2 battery charger will destroy a leisure battery very quickly, especially if your van has regenerative braking.
My 62 plate Peugeot Boxer van has a standard alternator and I fitted with a Sterling BB1260 battery 2 battery charger. When I had a Numax lead acid battery I could tune my Sterling unit to suit the leisure battery I was using. For example, a sealed maintenance free battery should only be charged at 14.2v. A wet leisure battery (you can top it up with distilled water), can be charged at 14.6 volts. Now my Peugeot Boxer only charges the starter battery at 13.9v. My Sterling unit will boost the charge voltage higher to suit the leisure battery I'm using.
The previous van I had was a 04 plate Citroën Relay. That van's alternator output was 14.6v, a little high for a maintenance free leisure battery.
To be very honest, a split charge relay is a waste of money if you are looking for a way to fully recharge your battery via the van's alternator, and you only do short journeys.
Split Charge Relay
Split Charge Relay. Most window cleaners who use the Water Fed Pole with a van mounted tank will, sooner or later, question whether they need to add an auxiliary charging method for their leisure battery that’s driven from the vehicle’s alternator or not. A Split Charge Relay (SCR) is now a...
windowcleaningforums.co.uk
Even though the post is over 7 years old, much of the information is still relevant. What I will do after this winter is add my findings on Lithium phosphate (LifePO4) batteries, one of which I'm currently using.
Last edited:
AW Services
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In all the years of having my durite scr installed into my van's I can't positively day it's actually charged a battery. I rely on my solar or physical mains hook upI've always recommended a Numax combination battery, which has a CCA rating. It's a good combination battery as it's both a leisure battery and starter battery. But it isn't a perfect leisure battery or starter battery.
What it does provide is current output which will deal with the power requirements of an electric reel and every day pump usage. An electric reel doesn't draw that much current each day, tbh. The problem is the high initial moments on start up where the battery is basically dealing with a direct short.
As with all lead acid/calcium batteries, they won't accept a high charge rate. The fuller the battery charge is, the less rate of charge it will accept. To a limited extent, the charge rate of lead acid batteries are also affected by temperature, and they should be charged every night. It is also recommended that you only use a maximum of 50% of your battery's capacity.
As per @AW Services post, it is very important that you know the charge characteristics of your van's alternator are before adding a split charge relay.
Using a split charge relay when you need a battery 2 battery charger will destroy a leisure battery very quickly, especially if your van has regenerative braking.
My 62 plate Peugeot Boxer van has a standard alternator and I fitted with a Sterling BB1260 battery 2 battery charger. When I had a Numax lead acid battery I could tune my Sterling unit to suit the leisure battery I was using. For example, a sealed maintenance free battery should only be charged at 14.2v. A wet leisure battery (you can top it up with distilled water), can be charged at 14.6 volts. Now my Peugeot Boxer only charges the starter battery at 13.9v. My Sterling unit will boost the charge voltage higher to suit the leisure battery I'm using.
The previous van I had was a 04 plate Citroën Relay. That van's alternator output was 14.6v, a little high for a maintenance free leisure battery.
To be very honest, a split charge relay is a waste of money if you are looking for a way to fully recharge your battery via the van's alternator, and you only do short journeys.
Split Charge Relay
Split Charge Relay. Most window cleaners who use the Water Fed Pole with a van mounted tank will, sooner or later, question whether they need to add an auxiliary charging method for their leisure battery that’s driven from the vehicle’s alternator or not. A Split Charge Relay (SCR) is now a...
Even though the post is over 7 years old, much of the information is still relevant. What I will do after this winter is add my findings on Lithium phosphate (LifePO4) batteries, one of which I'm currently using.
Jkp window cleaning.
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hydroman
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I think you can overthink these things.
I run two power up reels and two pumps from one leisure battery connected to split charge relay.
Never had a problem.
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In my experience, I have run 4 vans, son, 2 vans and son in law, 1 van. We haven't been able to use a split charge relay on any of our vans (Relay. Boxer, Berlingo, Partner, Ford Connect,) to recharge our leisure batteries.
There was a cleaner down south who ran his pump off of his Berlingo's starter battery successfully, but we were never able to do that doing the low mileage we do. My son's Berlingo starter battery was flat in 4 days. We later tried it again with a new battery and the same thing happened.
I have to charge my van starter battery every so often as the charge in that depletes over time, even after replacing the battery. A plumber down the road has to do the same. We have the same vans.
Last December I replaced my lead acid leisure battery with a lithium phosphate 100 amp battery. In the summer I find I have to switch my b2b charger off to let the charge in the battery deplete. With the battery accepting a charge rate from the alternator of 30 amps, I haven't put the mains charger on it since spring.
However, winter is a different story. When the batteries temp drops to below 5 degrees, a heating blanket activates, warming the battery up before any charge goes to the battery. That takes 10 amps of current and once charging, the charge rate is much reduced. So over last winter I was mains charging the battery every 3 or 4 working days.
Lead acid batteries need to be kept fully charged. Charging should happen after every use. A lithium battery doesn't need to be recharged fully. It can be left until it's capacity for to around 30% before recharging. (It can be discharged to 10%, but the supplier suggested 30 to 40%.)
An electric hose reel doesn't take much current. If I remember, I once calculated that reeling it in 15 times took around 5 amps of current, which is what a pump will use in a couple of hours. Most times it's less than that, as you don't pull out a full 100 metres of hose. It's the initial start amperage that's high.
Ian Lennox
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I'm having a new system installed and I understand they're fitting a B2B charger. I've been told that hardly any window cleaners need to charge their leisure batteries with this system.
It will be fitted in a 2022 Ford Custom.
I understand B2B is van 'Battery to Leisure Battery' and different to a relay system. Hopefully it will work but I'm not technically minded!
It will be fitted in a 2022 Ford Custom.
I understand B2B is van 'Battery to Leisure Battery' and different to a relay system. Hopefully it will work but I'm not technically minded!
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Again it’s dependant on the mileage you do and the equipment you run if using Wabasto boilers electric reels and pumps and doing a handful of miles per day it will still need mains charging if just using a pump and reel and doing 50-100 miles per day then yes it will survive but no b2b charger will charge as efficiently and to the same level as a mains charger .
ched999uk
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Unless you are driving for a few hours a day then you are best to mains charge your battery every day.
Just be aware that if you run your leisure battery below 12v (50% capacity) then you will drastically shorten it's life. Lead acids also do best when recharged as soon as possible.
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Most, if not all, modern Euro6 vans will need a b2b charger. The b2b charger will adjust input charge voltages to suit the leisure battery you have.
So with my Peugeot Boxer 62 plate van, my b2b charger increases the alternator output voltage from 13.9v to 14.2v.
If I had a van with regenerative braking, then the alternator output voltage could be as high as 18v. The b2b charger will reduce that voltage to 14.2v. If you had a VSR or SCR then the leisure battery would be battered with 18v and damage it in a short time.
AW Services
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If you are doing local commuting within a few miles of home and your van isn't doing long enough journeys where you a putting the van under load and the revs are higher you'll not achieve much with any charging system
I think for myself then - using a one man system, replacing my leisure battery and recharging it is the simplest method as I don’t do more than 3 days a week. I just won’t be tight on getting a decent battery and charger. I’ll do my research beforehand but any obvious recommendations for either are welcome too. As honestly I just like equipment to work and only have preferences on poles/brushes.
I know some are amazing with the science behind everything but I’m more of an accounting window cleaning nerd than an equipment one.
For context the reason I asked this as the OP was because I wanted a facelift system. But I’ve now read they use naff underperforming batteries (75 instead of 100+). If I’m honest I just thought the price was good especially including the motorised reel, pole etc but maybe I should just upgrade how I want. If the battery is my only concern though, I can probably get the system and a different battery.
I know some are amazing with the science behind everything but I’m more of an accounting window cleaning nerd than an equipment one.
For context the reason I asked this as the OP was because I wanted a facelift system. But I’ve now read they use naff underperforming batteries (75 instead of 100+). If I’m honest I just thought the price was good especially including the motorised reel, pole etc but maybe I should just upgrade how I want. If the battery is my only concern though, I can probably get the system and a different battery.
Some of these B2B chargers are over £200 I think. I drive a 2017 adblue Transit Custom.
For 6 years in this van I’ve used a split charge relay and never had one single problem. Last one was £30 and lasted me over 5 years. It was still working but I’ve just upgraded the back of the van a bit so bought a new scr (£50). Works just as good as the last one.
I was told that I would need to spend in excess of £200.
In fairness I generally do 40 miles to work to each ‘patch’ where I move within a mile or so radius and then 40 miles home.
I’ve been doing that for the last 6 years.
Never had to bench charge once.
Also never had a problem with dpf either.
So as has been said it all depends on mileage you do
For 6 years in this van I’ve used a split charge relay and never had one single problem. Last one was £30 and lasted me over 5 years. It was still working but I’ve just upgraded the back of the van a bit so bought a new scr (£50). Works just as good as the last one.
I was told that I would need to spend in excess of £200.
In fairness I generally do 40 miles to work to each ‘patch’ where I move within a mile or so radius and then 40 miles home.
I’ve been doing that for the last 6 years.
Never had to bench charge once.
Also never had a problem with dpf either.
So as has been said it all depends on mileage you do
ched999uk
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Some of the 'smart' alternators can pump out over 18 volts when on overrun/braking, this would probably damage a lead acid.
Some 'smart' alternators just charge the battery at 'regular' voltages but only when on overrun or braking (My 2019 ad blue Peugeot Partner does this). In which case a traditional split charge relay will work but not optimally as the leisure battery will just be parralleled up to the starter battery on overrun and may not disconnect until the engine is stopped. So it will be trying to 'steal' charge from the starter battery to equalise them both.
At the end of the day if it works for you then that's all that matters.
ched999uk
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Just so you know, a lead acid battery should only be discharged to 50% of it's capacity. So a 100Ah battery has 50Ah usable and a 75Ah has about 33Ah usable.I think for myself then - using a one man system, replacing my leisure battery and recharging it is the simplest method as I don’t do more than 3 days a week. I just won’t be tight on getting a decent battery and charger. I’ll do my research beforehand but any obvious recommendations for either are welcome too. As honestly I just like equipment to work and only have preferences on poles/brushes.
I know some are amazing with the science behind everything but I’m more of an accounting window cleaning nerd than an equipment one.
For context the reason I asked this as the OP was because I wanted a facelift system. But I’ve now read they use naff underperforming batteries (75 instead of 100+). If I’m honest I just thought the price was good especially including the motorised reel, pole etc but maybe I should just upgrade how I want. If the battery is my only concern though, I can probably get the system and a different battery.
Personally, and this is a guess, if you recharge it each night via a decent mains charger I would think a 75Ah battery would be fine. If you can fit a 100Ah down the line that would be better but I wouldn't waste the 75Ah unless it wasn't lasting me the day.
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The battery will be fine for 3 days a week work it will most likely see you through more than 12 months quite easily, so I wouldn't worry about the battery they supplyI think for myself then - using a one man system, replacing my leisure battery and recharging it is the simplest method as I don’t do more than 3 days a week. I just won’t be tight on getting a decent battery and charger. I’ll do my research beforehand but any obvious recommendations for either are welcome too. As honestly I just like equipment to work and only have preferences on poles/brushes.
I know some are amazing with the science behind everything but I’m more of an accounting window cleaning nerd than an equipment one.
For context the reason I asked this as the OP was because I wanted a facelift system. But I’ve now read they use naff underperforming batteries (75 instead of 100+). If I’m honest I just thought the price was good especially including the motorised reel, pole etc but maybe I should just upgrade how I want. If the battery is my only concern though, I can probably get the system and a different battery.
