FAO Alex Gardiner

[dazmond]

how are dupont bristles with hot water?

 

[Den]

how are dupont bristles with hot water?

Never tried with hot but they are a quite soft bristle I have the ultimate and extreme versions.

 

[Viggers]

Have to say at the moment, out of all my brushes the Supreme Dupont is my number 1 choice, absolutely love it all round lovely brush. Great at digging spider balls out on new cleans, moulds round frames lovely, great scrubbing power, and seems to get upstairs sills as well, very happy 

 

[Iron Giant]

Have to say at the moment, out of all my brushes the Supreme Dupont is my number 1 choice, absolutely love it all round lovely brush. Great at digging spider balls out on new cleans, moulds round frames lovely, great scrubbing power, and seems to get upstairs sills as well, very happy 

Totally agree, I have new builds with deep plastic sills were the water can just sit and the Supreme helps a lot at swiping the water away as I need longer bristles for these and the ultimate wasn't up to the job and left upper sills dirty in some cases. 

 

[steve garwood]

Have to say at the moment, out of all my brushes the Supreme Dupont is my number 1 choice, absolutely love it all round lovely brush. Great at digging spider balls out on new cleans, moulds round frames lovely, great scrubbing power, and seems to get upstairs sills as well, very happy 

What are those supreme doponts like with square leads or deep diamond leads?

I find my medium mixed sill brushes are a bit ‘jumpy’ with these.

Do the supreme doponts ‘glide’ over these?

Thanks in advance ?

 

[Iron Giant]

@steve garwood they are a good all rounder not as aggressive as monofilament bristles, not like those seagulls poke in the coconut he he ? 

 

[Viggers]

Not had a problem with any type of glass, for leaded or delicate glass I just swop over to my supreme flocked brush, also a great brush, just think I prefer the oval type of brush instead of the rectangular ones. Always have done since the day of the Vikan Oval.

 

[Moor]

Love my DuPont supreme too, I would prefer it a little wider though.

 

[Pjj]

how are dupont bristles with hot water?

Not good I tried the x line DuPont brush it doesn’t deform them in shape but there is no scrubbing power with them they go like spaghetti strands ?? I did one house with it and the brush has sat in the garage ever since 

 

[RWCleaning]

Love my DuPont supreme too, I would prefer it a little wider though.

I thought the DuPont supreme would be too soft, as the nylon bristles are softish anyway, and the longer they are the more flexible they would be presumably?

 

[Carts69]

Oh my god!

A vision of what's to come

Looking a bit under nourished 

 

[Viggers]

Any news ?

 

[Alex Gardiner]

Any news ?

Not a word ?

 

[Robbo]

 

[Tango]

Any news ?

Yeah Alex's call centre staff give incorrect technical advice, claim that you can't do tubeless with gardiner poles and EZ snaps and blindly hope that you'll never discover https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/blog/hoseless/

Can't make up my mind if the staff are just not smart, badly trained, deliberately difficult or trying to sabotage Alex's company.

I did PM him, no reply though..

 

[Alex Gardiner]

Yeah Alex's call centre staff give incorrect technical advice, claim that you can't do tubeless with gardiner poles and EZ snaps and blindly hope that you'll never discover https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/blog/hoseless/

Can't make up my mind if the staff are just not smart, badly trained, deliberately difficult or trying to sabotage Alex's company.

I did PM him, no reply though..

Hi Tango

I did reply to your 00:57am personal forum message via email the next working day - due to the complexity of my reply I decided to reply by using your email address rather than the Forum PM system.

In case my email went into your Spam folder and due to the content of your above post -  here is the content of the email I sent to you at 12.23pm yesterday during the working day.

Your PM to me

Hi Alex,

Sorry to trouble you - I thought we'd sorted all of our issues with connectors but i'm a tad confused about something. I spoke with one of your ladies on the 5th March about pole hoses and trying to go tubeless. It's a tad unclear but listening to the call recording I think she says her name is Cathy but it could be Cassie - which would make more sense as she was the one who replied via email but i don't want to put the wrong name forward.

Anyway long story short, she says if i use a connector on the hose to make it shorter (I had a tubeless setup in mind but didn't know the term for it back then), the pole will not fully extend because of the connector being in the way.

I accepted that, you people are experts.. and i placed my order minus the extra ez-snap connectors which wouldn't help..

I've just found this:

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/blog/hoseless/

Method 1 clearly mentions using a EZ snap connector!!!

I'm coping by disconnecting my pole hose at the gooseneck where the plastic connector is but I cannot see that being as robust as an EZ-snap - which I could have previously ordered and saved postage on.

I think you need to test the knowledge of your staff periodically to keep them on their toes because although it is only a connector to you, it's still a product sale and your staff have given me the wrong advice which has put me off buying it. I can't help but wonder how many pole sales you might have lost like this. Maybe you could have a monthly product quiz? - You could reward the winner with a box of chocs or something - anything to keep it positive, fun and encouraging so that they retain the correct knowledge..

Regards,

Tango (actual name used in PM)
My reply to you by email

Hi Tango (actual name used in email)

I thought that I would reply to you via email, rather than forum message.

Before replying I did take the time to listen to all 15 minutes and 24 seconds of your phone conversation with Cassie.

I have acted on one of the points raised and altered the name of the EZ-Snap connector that is used on the pole connector drop down. This is now referred to as a EZ-Snap Male Plug instead of EZ-Snap Tail. Whilst many in the industry use the phrase 'tail' or 'plug' interchangeably, I can see that for those unfamiliar with coupling terminology it is better to use just the one phrase.


The advice that Cassie gave you during the call was correct. When you were asking about the viability of cutting down the pole hose (you did not mention the phrase tubeless) to a shorter length she said:

"we do not recommend going shorter than the supplied length" and " most people find that the (the [SIZE=inherit]10m[/SIZE] length supplied) is a good length of hose to work"

The above is completely correct and is what I would want a member of the team to say. We do not recommend going any shorter as there really is not a need. Working with a backpack, even on a trolley, you really would find a [SIZE=inherit]10m[/SIZE] length of hose very useful as it will save constant moving of the backpack. Shortening it down would become restrictive and a bit of a pain. In practice looping the hose when not in use around the trolley handle is not a problem for most people and is how I work when using a backpack on a trolley.

Cassie then said to you that "although you could shorten the hose (when you specifically asked) you would find it quite difficult to use with the extra connectors as they would not pull through the pole properly"

This is also correct.

Adding a set of male/female connectors would add difficulty because they would drag on the ground and probably disconnect because of this. If used as the standard set-up with a Protecta-Ball then this would also not be able to pull up through the base of the pole as stated by Cassie.  She stated that it would be "quite difficult to use with the extra connectors as they would not pull through the pole properly" - this is correct - even if you removed the standard Protecta-Ball, the female coupling would only just fit through the hole in the base of the end cap. In practice this would mean that you could not simply extend the pole as needed, but you would have to extend until the female connector touched the end cap, then reach down and manually push the connector through the end cap and then continue extending the pole. Then to close the pole you would to repeat and at a certain point manually pull the female connector back through before finishing closing the pole. In reality due to the tightness of the fit you would probably find that the male/female connection would uncouple whilst doing this. So as Cassie stated this would not be able to pull through the pole properly and is not a solution we would advise or recommend.

Moving on to your comments about a full 'tubeless' setup. This is actually quite different to having the connector halfway along the hose as the connectors are all at the very start of the pole so it eliminates some of the above extending, catching and manual feeding issues explained above. This is still not a solution that we recommend or feel is actually needed. However because some people have asked we have posted this basic guide online showing how it can be done without the need for an expensive or complex connector setup. You will notice though that on the full tubeless setup Option 2 that the end cap has to be modified to allow for easy connection.

So in summary of the technicalities, you can cut the hose down in half, but it will cause problems feeding up through the pole. If you remove the Protecta-Ball from the male pole plug then it is possible, but will still cause issues, it will accidentally uncouple in use and will generally 'wind you up' in a short time. We have had many years experience advising clients and particularly those new to the WFP business. We always try and recommend the more preferable and reliable setup - many things are possible, but not all things are advisable. Of course you are free to modify or use whatever system or method you desire - whether we recommend it or not

Now looking at your staff training and knowledge comments -

As I have explained above, our staff have not given the wrong advice in this case (but as they are only human, misunderstandings can obviously occur so I'm not saying it will never happen!).

We feel that we are a good bit past a monthly quiz or box of chocolates with our staff   We have been operating for over 13 years and many of our staff have been with us for a lot of years, including Cassie who dealt with your query.  All new Customer Service staff are subject to a minimum of 6 months training before being allowed to 'go live' with clients  -even then up to 12 months in the job they still are considered on a junior level and would always refer complex issues to a more senior member of staff - we have 9 staff on the Customer Service team alone.  If a member of staff is unsure of something, they can refer to our in-house computer system (called Procedure Flow) which is a centralized database of information and flows that will allow them to guide a client through any product or decision making process.  If for some reason the answer is not found in Procedure Flow, they can ask another more experienced colleague or refer to me.  All Customer Service team staff are monitored with all calls being recorded and are subject to regular knowledge reviews and updates. Having over 15,000 retail customers, it would not be good business practice to have staff that were not up to speed on all products and the fact that we cannot keep up with orders is testament to the great job they do.

I appreciate the time you have taken to give me your feedback and I have taken on board the need to uniform the description of the EZ-Snap Tail/Plugs and have amended the website as such.

If you any further queries please do not hesitate to get back in touch.

I think you will agree that my reply did fully address your PM to me ?
 

 

[RWCleaning]

Yeah Alex's call centre staff give incorrect technical advice, claim that you can't do tubeless with gardiner poles and EZ snaps and blindly hope that you'll never discover https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/blog/hoseless/

Can't make up my mind if the staff are just not smart, badly trained, deliberately difficult or trying to sabotage Alex's company.

I did PM him, no reply though..

Keep your friends close & your pole providers closer @Tango

 

[Tango]

@Alex Gardiner I've not received your email - apologies i will have a hunt through the spam folder (i get a lot). Also apologies if i've caused any upset - let me explain my thinking below.

With my original point, i did mention shortening the hose yes - at the time I had two things in my head. Stopping myself tripping up / getting tangled (which i'm achieving rather well) and a connector at the end of the pole - which our own window cleaner has done. At approx 12 mins into the call i was also told that the connector would stop the pole fully extending - but your own site does show the EZ snap as method 1. Obviously if your own site shows this it is only natural that i'm going to question previous advice i was given and yes, rightly or wrongly, I felt disgruntled about it. Apologies if you feel i'm nit picking but at the time i could have ordered it and saved on the postage but i didn't based on being told that the pole wouldn't extend properly. That was my beef. As a result, I'm now using the plastic connector at the gooseneck to disconnect my hose.. and i'm finding leaks running down my pole for it where the connector seems to be degrading.

As for 6 months training, to be fair to you that's very impressive and I had no idea you are that dedicated so I wholeheartedly apologise if i have caused any upset. It's rare for private companies to put that much training into their staff so kudos to you on that. 

I do accept that perhaps I should have made it clearer that i was after a tubeless setup however before I really had chance to move onto that the idea was blown out of the water by the explanation i had about the connector stopping the pole fully extending - not much point discussing tubeless from that point on. I also wasn't sure of the terminology at the time nor the best way of describing it however with the knowledge that it wouldn't make it up the pole, there was little point continuing on that idea. So if i've caused any crossed wires I apologise for that however it was an issue for me - shortening the hose to a shorter length and using connectors that would fit.

On that line of thought though, if a female were fitted to the bottom of the pole instead of a male and the male fitted to the pump end, as the collar pulls back then surely as it slips up the hose in reverse the collar will not be pulled down / back and will not accidentally disconnect when the pole is extended? - That seems simple enough to me but i'd be interested in your thoughts.

Apologies if i've done wrong making this public Alex however i did feel a bit fed up and when i got no reply / explanation but noticed you reply here - i thought i was being ignored when all i wanted was advice from the leading expert - YOU.

In future I will try to discuss tech issues from as many angles as possible to get the info i need from your call centre staff.

Thanks for reading and your time,

Tango

 

[Pjj]

@Alex Gardiner I've not received your email - apologies i will have a hunt through the spam folder (i get a lot). Also apologies if i've caused any upset - let me explain my thinking below.

With my original point, i did mention shortening the hose yes - at the time I had two things in my head. Stopping myself tripping up / getting tangled (which i'm achieving rather well) and a connector at the end of the pole - which our own window cleaner has done. At approx 12 mins into the call i was also told that the connector would stop the pole fully extending - but your own site does show the EZ snap as method 1. Obviously if your own site shows this it is only natural that i'm going to question previous advice i was given and yes, rightly or wrongly, I felt disgruntled about it. Apologies if you feel i'm nit picking but at the time i could have ordered it and saved on the postage but i didn't based on being told that the pole wouldn't extend properly. That was my beef. As a result, I'm now using the plastic connector at the gooseneck to disconnect my hose.. and i'm finding leaks running down my pole for it where the connector seems to be degrading.

As for 6 months training, to be fair to you that's very impressive and I had no idea you are that dedicated so I wholeheartedly apologise if i have caused any upset. It's rare for private companies to put that much training into their staff so kudos to you on that. 

I do accept that perhaps I should have made it clearer that i was after a tubeless setup however before I really had chance to move onto that the idea was blown out of the water by the explanation i had about the connector stopping the pole fully extending - not much point discussing tubeless from that point on. I also wasn't sure of the terminology at the time nor the best way of describing it however with the knowledge that it wouldn't make it up the pole, there was little point continuing on that idea. So if i've caused any crossed wires I apologise for that however it was an issue for me - shortening the hose to a shorter length and using connectors that would fit.

On that line of thought though, if a female were fitted to the bottom of the pole instead of a male and the male fitted to the pump end, as the collar pulls back then surely as it slips up the hose in reverse the collar will not be pulled down / back and will not accidentally disconnect when the pole is extended? - That seems simple enough to me but i'd be interested in your thoughts.

Apologies if i've done wrong making this public Alex however i did feel a bit fed up and when i got no reply / explanation but noticed you reply here - i thought i was being ignored when all i wanted was advice from the leading expert - YOU.

In future I will try to discuss tech issues from as many angles as possible to get the info i need from your call centre staff.

Thanks for reading and your time,

Tango

You can make all  gardiner Poles hoseless with out stopping the pole extending fully , we have extream, ultimate , slx, clx all converted and only the ultimate needs a hose tail protruding from the end of the handle section all others can be done with the male connector inside the pole  

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

This is what all our guys do and they all use Gardiners poles. 

 

[Alex Gardiner]

@Alex Gardiner I've not received your email - apologies i will have a hunt through the spam folder (i get a lot). Also apologies if i've caused any upset - let me explain my thinking below.

With my original point, i did mention shortening the hose yes - at the time I had two things in my head. Stopping myself tripping up / getting tangled (which i'm achieving rather well) and a connector at the end of the pole - which our own window cleaner has done. At approx 12 mins into the call i was also told that the connector would stop the pole fully extending - but your own site does show the EZ snap as method 1. Obviously if your own site shows this it is only natural that i'm going to question previous advice i was given and yes, rightly or wrongly, I felt disgruntled about it. Apologies if you feel i'm nit picking but at the time i could have ordered it and saved on the postage but i didn't based on being told that the pole wouldn't extend properly. That was my beef. As a result, I'm now using the plastic connector at the gooseneck to disconnect my hose.. and i'm finding leaks running down my pole for it where the connector seems to be degrading.

As for 6 months training, to be fair to you that's very impressive and I had no idea you are that dedicated so I wholeheartedly apologise if i have caused any upset. It's rare for private companies to put that much training into their staff so kudos to you on that. 

I do accept that perhaps I should have made it clearer that i was after a tubeless setup however before I really had chance to move onto that the idea was blown out of the water by the explanation i had about the connector stopping the pole fully extending - not much point discussing tubeless from that point on. I also wasn't sure of the terminology at the time nor the best way of describing it however with the knowledge that it wouldn't make it up the pole, there was little point continuing on that idea. So if i've caused any crossed wires I apologise for that however it was an issue for me - shortening the hose to a shorter length and using connectors that would fit.

On that line of thought though, if a female were fitted to the bottom of the pole instead of a male and the male fitted to the pump end, as the collar pulls back then surely as it slips up the hose in reverse the collar will not be pulled down / back and will not accidentally disconnect when the pole is extended? - That seems simple enough to me but i'd be interested in your thoughts.

Apologies if i've done wrong making this public Alex however i did feel a bit fed up and when i got no reply / explanation but noticed you reply here - i thought i was being ignored when all i wanted was advice from the leading expert - YOU.

In future I will try to discuss tech issues from as many angles as possible to get the info i need from your call centre staff.

Thanks for reading and your time,

Tango

[SIZE=12pt]Hi Tango[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I think that the crux of the matter here, is that in your message to me and your forum post you accused our team of trying to mislead you on information about tubeless or hoseless poles setups, which has now cost you money as you will have to pay for postage on the extra connectors you feel you want to use. You also called into question our motives and competency.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]This has not upset me, however I did want to be able to show that this was not the case.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In your 15 minutes called to one of our Customer Service Team you did not once say that you wanted to use or convert our pole to a ‘tubeless’ or hoseless’ setup. If you had said this, the staff member would have straight away directed you to the online guide that you have subsequently found. This was originally put up by me in 2016 and was to assist clients enquiring about this. This info page forms part of our staff’s knowledge base and they regularly direct clients to it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]However, the setup that you were asking about was cutting the hose supplied with a CLX27 in half and using it with only 5m of hose most of the time with just a couple of sections extended and then using the off-cut as a plug-in extension with connectors when needed. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The Customer Service Team member correctly advised that this was not ideal and would cause issues. They also clearly advised that it was just not needed as the 10m supplied with a  [/SIZE]CLX27 was not that much hose anyway.

[SIZE=12pt]Having a connector halfway down the hose would cause a lot of issues that a ‘tubeless’ or ‘hoseless’ setup would not cause. In a ‘tubeless’ setup the connector spends all of it’s time in the pole, not going inside and outside the pole as the pole is adjusted in height.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I really feel that working with the CLX27 and its standard 10m hose length connected to your backpack on a trolley would be the simplest, quickest and most reliable way of working. Even when only using with a couple of sections extended the few extra metres of hose will prevent you from having to move the trolley as much whilst working. So, I am happy that the Customer Service Team member advised you correctly and with ‘best practise’ in mind.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As to your secondary thoughts about fitting the female to the end of the cut down pole hose – this could be done and it would perhaps prevent some accidental disconnects in use – however it would still be tricky to get inside the pole end cap when needed and in the long run still would not be as ideal a method (IMO) as the standard hose setup.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The great thing about WFP is that there many different ‘tweaks’ that window cleaners can carry out on their equipment. Trial and error will show you which best suits your specific setup and working method.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The ‘tubeless’ pole concept is one that some window cleaners have been using for many years now, I have a friend who has been doing this (exactly as shown in the above photos and on our guide) for about 18 years now. Aquafactors brought out an official pole end fitting to do this about 10 years ago and now you can even buy conversion kits from several suppliers. It is still a niche product within the industry, but for some it really suits their working methods and preferences.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Ultimately it will be up to you to decide what will work best – complete pole hose as supplied, half length pole hose with plug-in extension or a full ‘tubeless’ setup.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I am confident though that advice given by my team was good advice and I believe best suited to your working needs. If you really disagree and still think that we have misled you through incompetency or malice then I can extend an offer of free postage on your next order which will allow you to try out your method and see if you like it. I would be interested though, if your try both ways out, which in the long-run works best (I am hoping mine will [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]?[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt])[/SIZE]

Alex