gutter cleaning vs window cleaning

[Davy G]

can using the wfp be picked on my own or do I need to be trained by a time served windi?

Yes, it certainly can be picked up on your own. I did it, so I'm sure, did most of the other guys. Watch some instructional YouTube videos. Some are sound, some aren't. Squeeky Clean Dave is very good. I have a very short one showing my technique (100 degree fan jets in action). Both of these are sound and well proven, fast, reliable techniques.

You're aim initially should be quality. Only after you've nailed that down to an ultra reliable standard, should you aim for the speed. The temptation will be quality and speed

Fight the need for speed, quality, quality, quality, eventually you will build muscle memory and a sixth sense for what's happening with the pole, brush, water and dirt. The equipment becomes like an extension of your arms. The speed will come with you hardly noticing it.

 

[AW Services]

do you think there is a potential for selling a package to customers that would include guttering and or oven cleaning? this could be extended to include upvc fascia cleaning.

just an idea that is all.

I do oven cleaning end of tenancy cleans domestic and commercial cleans plus window cleaning and upholstery cleaning. You'd still not generate a massive income with guttering upvc and ovens. All weather dependant exterior work aswell 

 

[albatross]

I do oven cleaning end of tenancy cleans domestic and commercial cleans plus window cleaning and upholstery cleaning. You'd still not generate a massive income with guttering upvc and ovens. All weather dependant exterior work aswell 

what do you mean by massive?

can i ask you how many ovens do you get a week as a sole trader?

 

[Doddy111]

@albatross I’m happy for you to come out with me pal I’m only down the road from you (5 mins from Manchester airport) I’ve been going two years so I’m by no means an expert but at least you’ll get a bit of experience and you can decide if it’s for you or not. 
 

If I were you I’d build a window cleaning round (which can be done fairly quickly) once you’ve got that customer base then start looking at offering other services PW, gutters etc 

 

[Deleted member 5762]

Nice gesture from @Doddy111?. @albatrossI did everything myself, learning traditional and wfp. The worst part was being nervous about starting. Absolutely agree that concentrate on quality first and the speed will come later. You can learn basic wfp easily. Just get yourself a backpack, a pole and some water containers and go from there. If you outgrow them they can easily be sold on at a later time. I don’t do a lot  gutter clearance/cleaning. It can be messy as anyone who contacts you out of the blue they’re usually overflowing and manky. Where I live though they are usually bungalows so can normally be cleared with a small gutter vacuum or off a ladder. There’s loads of YouTube people that are good to watch - Squeaky Clean Dave was mentioned, I’d also say Wagga (Christopher Dawber) and Ashley Mackintosh are worth watching. There are others, but a lot have basically become adverts for products and companies they’re associated with. I’d say go for it if there’s demand in your area. I used to sit in an office all day before I relocated to look after my grandmother who was terminally ill. I did window cleaning to be flexible and to fit in with her care and hospital treatments. She’s since passed away earlier this year, but I like working outside now. Sometimes my Wife works with me too and neither of us would want to go back to working indoors again. Good luck with everything mate.

PS. Don’t go thinking you need every bit of kit or tool you see. Work out the basics and go from there ?

 

[scottish cleaning service]

thanks guys for all the advice.

to be honest I would rather have slow growth but learn properly than canvass 100k houses and then **** of a fair few customets because I am still learning.

I am in the fortunate position where my mortgage is paid off and I have passive income of around 10k a year. Also I am not a big spender so what I am not in a massive rush to earn £££ but would like to build my competency and earnings at the same rate.

what is the checkatrade fee?

£100 odd a month.

 

[albatross]

@albatross I’m happy for you to come out with me pal I’m only down the road from you (5 mins from Manchester airport) I’ve been going two years so I’m by no means an expert but at least you’ll get a bit of experience and you can decide if it’s for you or not. 
 

If I were you I’d build a window cleaning round (which can be done fairly quickly) once you’ve got that customer base then start looking at offering other services PW, gutters etc 

hi sent you a pm

 

[albatross]

One of my first steps is to get formal advice on setting up from a tax point of view, and accountancy costs.

I have never been self employed before so I need to make sure I put the right formula in place.

I have contacted a tax adviser known to the family, told them I would like to setup a cleaning "startup" and this is what they are quoting:

We can advise on the pros and cons of incorporation versus operating as a sole trade as well as most tax efficient methods of acquiring a commercial vehicle, tools, CIS and the such like. If you were to use ........ to provide accounting support, our proposal would be to offer you a fixed fee for annual accounts, tax returns, cloud based book keeping and VAT/PAYE services. Our services include basic remuneration tax planning without further fees being charged and of course we’ll be happy to answer questions as you get used to being your own boss.

Our fees to advise on incorporation versus a sole trade would be £500. This would include a telephone discussion before and after a detailed report on the pros and cons.

To incorporate a company and provide a registered office service, our fees would be £150. Ongoing annual service address fees would be £100 per annum.

Annual accounts and a cloud bookkeeping application should start from around £1,200 depending on the level of activity. This would include all statutory filings and your personal tax return. 

The proposal above is based on our experience of a typical start-up businesses similar to yours although could depend a little more on specific requirements so we would encourage having an initial chat".

Would you guys say this would be money well invested? 

 

[Cookie]

Would you guys say this would be money well invested? 

No just register with HMRC online yourself (it's really simple):

https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-sole-trader

 

[albatross]

No just register with HMRC online yourself (it's really simple):

https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-sole-trader

isn't the advantage of going ltd that your personal assets are safe if some nut sues you because you scratched his porsche or his kid kicked a ladder and got injured in the process?

I guess this may be of more importance if one works as a builder or electrician.

 

[Cookie]

isn't the advantage of going ltd that your personal assets are safe if some nut sues you because you scratched his porsche or his kid kicked a ladder and got injured in the process?

I guess this may be of more importance if one works as a builder or electrician.

No, your Public Liability Insurance will cover that. I would recommend Gleaming Insurance since they insure you if you damage any items you are cleaning as well ie: windows, solar panels, gutters (some companies do not insure you for this).

Going Ltd means you will need to add 20% VAT to your prices which immediately puts you at a disadvantage to other sole trader window cleaners working in your area. You will be able to claim back VAT on any equipment you purchase - poles, brushes, your van etc... But if you're starting out it's really a "no brainer" to set up as a sole trader IMO - it just makes the accounting so much less complicated. For example I do all my accounting and tax returns myself - so no need to fork out for an accountant.

 

[ched999uk]

I think the advice from your know to the family  tax advisor is running before you can walk. What I mean by that is they are talking Vat and PAYE. Vat threshold is £85K turnover!! Plus if you are mainly doing domestic it will add 20% to your customers bills! PAYE is only necessary if you employ people or are a ltd company. Ltd is sometimes used to avoid tax! Basically pay themselves minimum wages so very little tax, then pay the rest as dividends which is taxed at 7% for basic tax payers plus a £2k allowance. Ltd accounts are a bit more complex and as such cost a little more to submit if you use an accountant. Setting up a ltd company should only cost £100 ish max.

Personally if you are just intending on doing mainly domestic then stay away from Vat and just go as a sole trader. Ring round a few accountants and see what they can do as the one you suggested seems to be thinking on a big scale. Unless of course you are going for mainly big commercial work then it's different...

 

[THL4KEL]

You want to generate some business before your start paying an accountant.

 

[Part Timer]

One of my first steps is to get formal advice on setting up from a tax point of view, and accountancy costs.

I have never been self employed before so I need to make sure I put the right formula in place.

I have contacted a tax adviser known to the family, told them I would like to setup a cleaning "startup" and this is what they are quoting:

We can advise on the pros and cons of incorporation versus operating as a sole trade as well as most tax efficient methods of acquiring a commercial vehicle, tools, CIS and the such like. If you were to use ........ to provide accounting support, our proposal would be to offer you a fixed fee for annual accounts, tax returns, cloud based book keeping and VAT/PAYE services. Our services include basic remuneration tax planning without further fees being charged and of course we’ll be happy to answer questions as you get used to being your own boss.

Our fees to advise on incorporation versus a sole trade would be £500. This would include a telephone discussion before and after a detailed report on the pros and cons.

To incorporate a company and provide a registered office service, our fees would be £150. Ongoing annual service address fees would be £100 per annum.

Annual accounts and a cloud bookkeeping application should start from around £1,200 depending on the level of activity. This would include all statutory filings and your personal tax return. 

The proposal above is based on our experience of a typical start-up businesses similar to yours although could depend a little more on specific requirements so we would encourage having an initial chat".

Would you guys say this would be money well invested? 

Ring the HMRC helpline, if anyone is currently working, they are very helpful and will tell you all you need to know. Basically any business related expenditure you need to keep receipts. Any money earned needs to be logged, this is where a business bank account helps.

My Accountant does my Limited Company Accounts, my Partnership Accounts, my personal tax return, my Wife's tax return and my sons tax return for £990 + VAT. If you struggle to do your tax return then a book keeper will charge you, at most, £200 to do your Tax return, you don't need to be paying some fancy Accountant those numbers until you're turning over many, many thousands.

A Ltd company, initially, is of no financial benefit to you whatsoever.   

 

[Iron Giant]

Ltd is sometimes used to avoid tax! Basically pay themselves minimum wages so very little tax, then pay the rest as dividends which is taxed at 7% for basic tax payers plus a £2k allowance. Ltd accounts are a bit more complex and as such cost a little more to submit if you use an accountant. Setting up a ltd company should only cost £100 ish max.

Only worthwhile doing the above once earning a very decent wedge, my accountant mentioned to me going Ltd but a custy of mine who is an accountant said no point going Ltd if you have a mortgage or are looking to move at some point in the future and increasing mortgage lending otherwise the lower wage from Ltd will limit what can be borrowed  even entering a new deal for a mortgage without moving house you need to meet the lending criteria and be able to afford the payments, not something I had thought about at all until he mentioned it. 

 

[Deleted member 5762]

One of my first steps is to get formal advice on setting up from a tax point of view, and accountancy costs.

I have never been self employed before so I need to make sure I put the right formula in place.

I have contacted a tax adviser known to the family, told them I would like to setup a cleaning "startup" and this is what they are quoting:

We can advise on the pros and cons of incorporation versus operating as a sole trade as well as most tax efficient methods of acquiring a commercial vehicle, tools, CIS and the such like. If you were to use ........ to provide accounting support, our proposal would be to offer you a fixed fee for annual accounts, tax returns, cloud based book keeping and VAT/PAYE services. Our services include basic remuneration tax planning without further fees being charged and of course we’ll be happy to answer questions as you get used to being your own boss.

Our fees to advise on incorporation versus a sole trade would be £500. This would include a telephone discussion before and after a detailed report on the pros and cons.

To incorporate a company and provide a registered office service, our fees would be £150. Ongoing annual service address fees would be £100 per annum.

Annual accounts and a cloud bookkeeping application should start from around £1,200 depending on the level of activity. This would include all statutory filings and your personal tax return. 

The proposal above is based on our experience of a typical start-up businesses similar to yours although could depend a little more on specific requirements so we would encourage having an initial chat".

Would you guys say this would be money well invested? 

@albatrosswouldn’t be how I’d do it personally. You can register as self employed easily with hmrc. Get some public liability insurance (can get good prices from compare the market), make sure your car/van is insured for business use, and do your own tax return each year (Keep a little file of all your outgoings and income) and that’s it. That’s what I do and if I can do it anyone can.

 

[harunh]

Gutter cleaning vs Window cleaning ? ? thats likes your local sunday league team vs Barcelona

Window cleaning is way more superior then gutter cleaning ?

 

 

[Omega]

Wow. Don’t listen to advice on here regarding tax and legal stuff because people are getting it wrong.

being a limited company simply means the company is its own legal entity. If you trade as a sole trader you are trading as yourself. Should you be liable to anything it is either you or the company responsible and that depends on legal aspects too. Public liability does protect you but there is more to it.

in respect to assets. Albatross is correct. If you trade as a limited company and it goes bust. Your personal assets are separate as I mentioned in respect to the entity.
 

where you step outside the law some of these protections can be void.

re vat. You can choose to register or it is compulsory to register when your turnover in a 12 month rolling period is over 85k. It doesn’t matter whether you are a company or a sole trader as far as I’m aware. It goes on the entity that is trading  

pay the accountants. If you don’t understand it yourself don’t go around asking everyone else opinion as you will often get incorrect info. Also. Tax and business advice is so specific to so many factors that you really need tailored advice for you and the position your in and also where you want to be. 
 

google and check anything me or anyone is telling you. Or else you risk messing up based on potentially incorrect advice albeit with the best intention.  

 

[albatross]

Wow. Don’t listen to advice on here regarding tax and legal stuff because people are getting it wrong.

being a limited company simply means the company is its own legal entity. If you trade as a sole trader you are trading as yourself. Should you be liable to anything it is either you or the company responsible and that depends on legal aspects too. Public liability does protect you but there is more to it.

in respect to assets. Albatross is correct. If you trade as a limited company and it goes bust. Your personal assets are separate as I mentioned in respect to the entity.
 

where you step outside the law some of these protections can be void.

re vat. You can choose to register or it is compulsory to register when your turnover in a 12 month rolling period is over 85k. It doesn’t matter whether you are a company or a sole trader as far as I’m aware. It goes on the entity that is trading  

pay the accountants. If you don’t understand it yourself don’t go around asking everyone else opinion as you will often get incorrect info. Also. Tax and business advice is so specific to so many factors that you really need tailored advice for you and the position your in and also where you want to be. 
 

google and check anything me or anyone is telling you. Or else you risk messing up based on potentially incorrect advice albeit with the best intention.  

Hi Omega, my main worry re not registering ltd is the legal aspect of it.

I would be a new windi with no experience and accidents can happen, and with the litigation industry things can snowbal! pretty quickly.

I guess those fees I have been quoted are steep because I asked a tax advisor who also deals  with tax investigations etc. etc. These advisors I think are slightly different from run of the mill accountants. I am reluctant to ring Hmrc as in the past I have gound them clueless in responding to simple questions.

Maybe the way forward is to ring a few sccountants to get a more reasonable fee for startup advice.

 

[Part Timer]

Maybe the way forward is to ring a few sccountants to get a more reasonable fee for startup advice.

Ring HMRC, tell them you're clueless and ask them to talk you through it. I'm amazed you claim they didn't help you in the past, I must have rang them half a dozen times and they were very helpful everytime. If you still don't understand then go and seek paid advice.

As long as you get Liability Insurance you are covered, usually up to £1 million, so no need to worry there. By the way I have never needed to claim for anything and would think this applies to the vast majority of Sole Traders on here., and we were all newbies once upon a time.

Seems very strange you ask advice and only listen to the person that's telling you what you want to hear.

 

[NewGuy]

I set up my own Ltd company this year - only reason for doing so is to appear more professional.  There are certainly no tangible benefits for setting up a Ltd co.  Only downside is that nosey people can look up at the company's financials on Companies House.  That might make me close the Ltd company and operate on a self-employed business once I'm more established as I like my income to be private.

There is one small benefit to operating as a Ltd company, and that is you can pay dividends to yourself (a tiny tax advantage here) but as Part-Timer says, you really do need to speak to an accountant.

There are some incorrect posts here about VAT - you can register to be VAT qualifying but that means charging VAT which will push your prices up.  You will have to be VAT qualified once turnover reaches £85k...but I doubt that will be a concern for you in the immediate future.

Speak to an accountant!