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have you gone down the up front payments route?

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Pjj said:
I have a customer who owes me £375 for a job done before Christmas he has admitted in email he owes the money and is happy with the job but just won’t pay , been round the hose a couple of times and just get fobed off we are going again tonight, and as of Monday morning it will be dealt with by a debt collection agency, they will take him to court etc I have to pay the fees and 20% of what is owed  which falls me but there you go , from now on any one off jobs for non regular customers will be bank transfer before we turn up or cash when we turn up no cash no job done , ime not going to be taken for a mug  again 
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How did you get on with the *****, any joy?

I'm starting to get more and more one off jobs and one I did yesterday hasn't yet paid, I know it's early days but when you have busted your gut doing the job it's making me feel exposed.  

Years ago an old boss of mine an MD for a big global cleaning company told me that he was nice to everybody even when they were being unreasonable, his theory was that if you're nice then it makes it harder for people to not be nice to you.  I'm hoping that being nice and polite will keep everybody paying.  Like I had one a few weeks ago, a gutter clear, only a £60 job but had to ring him after a few days as still hadn't paid, then he started saying is it the correct method to clear gutters from the ground using a vac like he was trying to make an excuse to get out of paying.  Anyway he said he was happy and would pay, still waited another 24 hours before he did though.  However I got a call yesterday from a friend of his, he recommended my services, just goes to show how difficult it is to know what's best to do.

The problem with charging upfront means that the 'trust' factor is lost.  Our line of work involves a lot of trust and when you set off in a non trusting way I think it can only lead to a little negative feeling from the customer.  Despite what most people would say to your face, being asked to pay upfront is offensive, it's like saying you don't trust them.  It's a really tricky one is non payment a big issue?  I've not had anybody not pay in the nearly 2 years since I've started so it doesn't seem like a big issue but maybe I'm wrong?

Most of mine are on GC so don't have these problems but the bigger houses always seem to want to pay via bank transfer so to get the job I agree to it.

 
Chris34 said:
How did you get on with the *****, any joy?

I'm starting to get more and more one off jobs and one I did yesterday hasn't yet paid, I know it's early days but when you have busted your gut doing the job it's making me feel exposed.  

Years ago an old boss of mine an MD for a big global cleaning company told me that he was nice to everybody even when they were being unreasonable, his theory was that if you're nice then it makes it harder for people to not be nice to you.  I'm hoping that being nice and polite will keep everybody paying.  Like I had one a few weeks ago, a gutter clear, only a £60 job but had to ring him after a few days as still hadn't paid, then he started saying is it the correct method to clear gutters from the ground using a vac like he was trying to make an excuse to get out of paying.  Anyway he said he was happy and would pay, still waited another 24 hours before he did though.  However I got a call yesterday from a friend of his, he recommended my services, just goes to show how difficult it is to know what's best to do.

The problem with charging upfront means that the 'trust' factor is lost.  Our line of work involves a lot of trust and when you set off in a non trusting way I think it can only lead to a little negative feeling from the customer.  Despite what most people would say to your face, being asked to pay upfront is offensive, it's like saying you don't trust them.  It's a really tricky one is non payment a big issue?  I've not had anybody not pay in the nearly 2 years since I've started so it doesn't seem like a big issue but maybe I'm wrong?

Most of mine are on GC so don't have these problems but the bigger houses always seem to want to pay via bank transfer so to get the job I agree to it.
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Long storey short , went to court got ccj guy said he would pay £10 a month until its payed off , so far have had £50 and that’s it , I would have to keep going back to court for  every missed payment , so decided it’s not worth pursuing further , it does  go against the grain though , now I ask for  payment in full up front before we do this type of work and explaine why unless they are an existing customer. most have been fine had a couple that have said think we will leave it , Ime guessing that they may also have turned into slow or non payers , 

 
Pjj said:
Long storey short , went to court got ccj guy said he would pay £10 a month until its payed off , so far have had £50 and that’s it , I would have to keep going back to court for  every missed payment , so decided it’s not worth pursuing further , it does  go against the grain though , now I ask for  payment in full up front before we do this type of work and explaine why unless they are an existing customer. most have been fine had a couple that have said think we will leave it , Ime guessing that they may also have turned into slow or non payers , 
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Can't you sell it to a debt collector? At least they have a ccj against them, mind you the sort of people to try and stiff a small company out of money after they have completed a job probably have other ccj's anyway.

It really annoys me that people can be so blatant about it when they know you are a small company...

 
ched999uk said:
Can't you sell it to a debt collector? At least they have a ccj against them, mind you the sort of people to try and stiff a small company out of money after they have completed a job probably have other ccj's anyway.

It really annoys me that people can be so blatant about it when they know you are a small company...
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Again it’s not quite that simple , I did look into it a bit but it’s not straightforward , all the time involved  chasing it I could have earnt 10x the debt owed , sometimes you just have to walk away no matter how frustrating that is !!!!!!!! 

 
Pjj said:
Again it’s not quite that simple , I did look into it a bit but it’s not straightforward , all the time involved  chasing it I could have earnt 10x the debt owed , sometimes you just have to walk away no matter how frustrating that is !!!!!!!! 
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You are right. Sometimes it's not worth the stress. It just really bugs me there are people out there like that that have no conscience. 

Oh well it's life.  

 
Incheck said:
Hey guys, january syndrome, reality check, whatever you want to call it ? had a couple of chancers recently and some persistent late payers starting to take their toll on my mental wellbeing (will be dropped at the first opportunity) my dilemma is...I really dont want to go down the go cardless route, and really havent got time or resources to be faffing around with courts etc. So my thinking is, for new customers or ad on jobs, up front payments on arrival or if we have a walk up in the street for windows, cash up front? . What do you reckon? Its starting to feel like the wild west out there and if people aren't willing to pay up front then i can only assume the intention to pay isn’t there. Obviously would provide a receipt on payment, and also not trying to sound like the sheriff or anything, but bills to pay overheads to cover and simply cant keep being let down. End of the day you cant walk in to a store and walk out with the stock without paying for it there and then. What do you reckon? Hope you’re all keeping well. 
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You'll only ever get cash up front if you've worked in the industry for 80 years and can deliver the best of the best work around in my opinion 

 
I had discussed sharing info on these non payers with another business owner.

whilst nothing ever came of it it’s a shame there is not a formal and verified way to do so that I am aware of which is legally acceptable. I guess it is open to abuse as with anything and ccj is prob the closest formal thing.

i think the best thing is to process for a ccj in the end providing there is no other way to resolve like adults.

It really is shame when you work hard only to be bumped by some a hole who thinks it’s okay to rip you off. Happened to us by someone who did it on purpose. Will prob come across him in the future but all in all most people are good so I have deemed it is not worth making our service experience less trusting for the majority of decent honest and kind people so the sake of the few buggers.

Ultimately they do not get far with an attitude of bumping people and not paying.

as already said. Focus your efforts on the good and more good will come your way.

 
Apw1210 said:
You'll only ever get cash up front if you've worked in the industry for 80 years and can deliver the best of the best work around in my opinion 
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We went through a period of all payments for adhoc work being upfront. It was no problem. No one ever complained. We’ve been running for only a few years and people were paying hundreds upfront with work scheduled a month in advance in some cases. I think it depends more on your rep, presentation and business setup. Reviews and the like all help to build creditability and trust.
 

you come across a company with scores of good reviews over a few years period. Formal company registration, directors not involved in anything ill like liquidations etc and people have every reason to trust you. It’s no different to doing due diligence before doing business with other businesses and contractors.

 
ched999uk said:
You are right. Sometimes it's not worth the stress. It just really bugs me there are people out there like that that have no conscience. 

Oh well it's life.  
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This is what I'm concerned about, there are people who seem to just live a lie, all fur coat no knickers, but they're not in small houses, they're in massive houses so the jobs are big jobs.  They must spend all their lives ripping people off.  It is sickening but what's worse is their mental state, to do it so blatantly is psychotic, they're not right in the head like a mega bully that enjoys it.

Years ago I was in the process of setting up a carpet and upholstery cleaning business, long story short didn't get started.  But during the startup I was researching everything and there was a forum I came across that gave loads of good advice.  There was a guy on there that was mentally broken, he had just done a carpet cleaning job and I think it was a flat, he did the whole lot and the guy living there was there throughout.  When he had finished the guy said it was a great job but he's not paying any money, he said this to his face.  I can't remember exactly word for word but it was something along the lines of 'yeah, I'm a ****, I do it all the time, sorry you seem like a nice bloke and you've done a great job but I won't be paying you anything, I haven't got any money'.

It's obviously rare that it happens but it's bound to happen to all of us at some point, unless you take payment up front, but then you don't know how many jobs you lose as a result.  However when it happens it's not so much the money, it's the fact you've worked so hard to get the job perfect and they don't pay when you know that they must have money.  If they were genuinely hard up I'd probably do a freebie if it was a worthy cause, but going out and ripping people off is a mental lunatic, should be locked up in a hospital.  Makes you wonder what their friends and families are like.

 
Omega said:
I had discussed sharing info on these non payers with another business owner.

whilst nothing ever came of it it’s a shame there is not a formal and verified way to do so that I am aware of which is legally acceptable. I guess it is open to abuse as with anything and ccj is prob the closest formal thing.

i think the best thing is to process for a ccj in the end providing there is no other way to resolve like adults.

It really is shame when you work hard only to be bumped by some a hole who thinks it’s okay to rip you off. Happened to us by someone who did it on purpose. Will prob come across him in the future but all in all most people are good so I have deemed it is not worth making our service experience less trusting for the majority of decent honest and kind people so the sake of the few buggers.

Ultimately they do not get far with an attitude of bumping people and not paying.

as already said. Focus your efforts on the good and more good will come your way.
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All the non payers  we have had have been one off type of jobs , builders cleans got stung for £1700 odd and got  a ccj against them it’s still on going and there are 5 firms owed money by this company they owe one firm 100 k so the five companies,we have all got together and are now forcing the sale of one of this guys private houses. Problem is the owner of the company has moved to the Philippines so it’s slow going , wether I will ever see any money or not I don’t know , but the company that are owed 100k are happy to foot the total legal bill they are a very large company and can afford to have barristers deal with it , they have said it’s not about the money but this building firm isn’t going to make them look fools so what ever it costs they will keep going , it’s been 2 years so far !,,,, , . The other non payer was a one off gutter vac job , so now it’s laymen’s in full before work commences take it or leave it . 

 
Chris34 said:
This is what I'm concerned about, there are people who seem to just live a lie, all fur coat no knickers, but they're not in small houses, they're in massive houses so the jobs are big jobs.  They must spend all their lives ripping people off.  It is sickening but what's worse is their mental state, to do it so blatantly is psychotic, they're not right in the head like a mega bully that enjoys it.

Years ago I was in the process of setting up a carpet and upholstery cleaning business, long story short didn't get started.  But during the startup I was researching everything and there was a forum I came across that gave loads of good advice.  There was a guy on there that was mentally broken, he had just done a carpet cleaning job and I think it was a flat, he did the whole lot and the guy living there was there throughout.  When he had finished the guy said it was a great job but he's not paying any money, he said this to his face.  I can't remember exactly word for word but it was something along the lines of 'yeah, I'm a ****, I do it all the time, sorry you seem like a nice bloke and you've done a great job but I won't be paying you anything, I haven't got any money'.

It's obviously rare that it happens but it's bound to happen to all of us at some point, unless you take payment up front, but then you don't know how many jobs you lose as a result.  However when it happens it's not so much the money, it's the fact you've worked so hard to get the job perfect and they don't pay when you know that they must have money.  If they were genuinely hard up I'd probably do a freebie if it was a worthy cause, but going out and ripping people off is a mental lunatic, should be locked up in a hospital.  Makes you wonder what their friends and families are like.
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I would do what ever it takes and get the money off that bloke.

I’m not acting macho or nothing, but just wouldn’t ever be able to let someone do that to me, it would wind me up until I couldn’t sleep.

 
i am in canada. we do mostly one clean per year some customers do 2

in 2018 we started offering 5% off for prepayment. now most of our jobs are prepaid and i am thinking of changing the terms to 5% off if paid when booking at least a week in advance and all must be paid before work done,

more people are becoming accustomed to paying in advance as buying online increases and many just expect it.

 
Most my customers pay by bank transfer 90%. It can be annoying chasing for payments but I do get 97% of my customers pay within 2 days as I send a 48 hour payment reminder out. After that it's a 5 day payment reminder, if still not paid it's a straight forward week reminder.....if over 2 weeks they get a knock at the door........only ever had to knock 3 times . 

 
I've only got two, persistent late payers. Money normally gets transferred a couple of days before the next clean is due and a few reminder texts have been sent. I did toy with the idea of sending a message "your clean is due, please send transfer, when it's received I will get the job done" (or something along those lines). It's either that or drop them altogether. They're either skint and struggling to pay or they have no respect for me and believe it's acceptable to behave the way they do, either way it's bad form and I've had enough of them. These people definitely impact mental health negatively.

 
Danfire said:
I've only got two, persistent late payers. Money normally gets transferred a couple of days before the next clean is due and a few reminder texts have been sent. I did toy with the idea of sending a message "your clean is due, please send transfer, when it's received I will get the job done" (or something along those lines). It's either that or drop them altogether. They're either skint and struggling to pay or they have no respect for me and believe it's acceptable to behave the way they do, either way it's bad form and I've had enough of them. These people definitely impact mental health negatively.
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Best way to deal with them is to say you are going down the DD route. I'm not as big to do that at the moment but would do it in the future. Its good because folk don't really have the chance to cancel now and then which I get from a person with a lovely BMW outside. It sticks in my throat when all my pensioners pay me religiously each month. I would drop them but it would make it awkward for me so I have to bare with it. ?

 
Danfire said:
I've only got two, persistent late payers. Money normally gets transferred a couple of days before the next clean is due and a few reminder texts have been sent. I did toy with the idea of sending a message "your clean is due, please send transfer, when it's received I will get the job done" (or something along those lines). It's either that or drop them altogether. They're either skint and struggling to pay or they have no respect for me and believe it's acceptable to behave the way they do, either way it's bad form and I've had enough of them. These people definitely impact mental health negatively.
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Unfortunately I feel the only way to deal with ones like this is dump them , I have had a customer txt me this morning that we stoped doing in September as they owed 3 months money , he asked why we hadn’t been since September, my reply was beacause you already owe £60 three months cleaning money and we have repeatedly contacted you but received no payment , so you have been removed from our books , he asked me to start cleaning again and he will pay by BACS on a dd reluctantly I have accepted this and told him from now on it will be payment before work is done , he is happy with that , but should the payment not be made then it will be the end of the road , will be interesting to see what happens , ????

 
Ouch, that’s some nasty outstanding bills.
interesting about paying up front all the time now for one offs, I’ve only done it once, I did a one off clean on a grotty flat back in the summer, for a chavy young couple, I said one off 20, and said I only clean one offs with Payment up front (as they were just going out and I didn’t get a good feeling about them) thankfully they half heartily handed the money over and went off out (and yes I did clean it lol) 

Ive had 4 non payers In 6 years. The biggest was £25 I think. The last one I was very tempted to do something very unprofessional after 4 weeks of ‘I’ll pay tomorrow’ over texts and never answering the door when I went round, but I decided to sleep on it, and thankfully I woke up and thought it’s only £25, just leave it. 

 
Wondering for some advice from you guys? 

I have one persistent late payer , he has an extremely nice mercedes on the drive and his wife has a nice car too. They live in a new build but on the end of a row if 3 town houses. 

About 2 months ago the middle house got in contact with me and asked me to clean there windows (on reccomendation of next door) on a monthly basis, but as its the middle I have to go through there house and they would prefer me not to. So they agreed between them that I can hop over the fence between them to clean the back. The new customer pays me in the same day everytime (3 times now), but I'm having problems getting money from Mr mercedes every month for last 3 months. I send reminders, he reads them and still no money until about 5 reminders have been sent. If I drop him I lose access to the other house. I charge £9 each for these houses and there so easy, 3 windows front and 2 windows back and patio door. I can have both done in 20 mins and £18 in back pocket. 

But he's really starting to annoy me but by dropping him I'm also going to have to drop the middle good paying house. 

 
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