Leisure battery / split charge

[Deleted member 84]

I have a 105ah agm leisure battery.

I've been charging for years on a 12 amp setting.

Would It be better to wire up a split charging system to it?

Or would it be better to keeping charging with battery charger but purchase a 20 amp charger.

For those that have the split charge kit I'm guessing every now and then you connect battery chargers up to give them battery a good boost

 

[Davy G]

I use a Durite SCR. I probably average 10~35 or so miles a day. I have two Numax XV35MF 120 AH leisure batteries of several years old, linked together driving two wfp pumps only. I use manual reels. I'm one of the very few that never needs to mains charge. For me with two operators the key details are : that exact SCR, accepting no other than the exact battery model that I use and having both batteries linked together.

 

[ched999uk]

For split chargers it depends on how many miles you do really.

If the way you have been doing it works then why change? 

If you have a multimeter you could test your battery (after it's rested, ideally for 4 hrs after use or charge) and see what the voltage is. That gives you a clue as to how charged it is but won't tell you if it's capacity has reduced due to age. 

If you search google for AGM battery voltage charts that should give you a guide as to what rested voltage relates to what % of charge.

I seem to remember reading a while ago that you shouldn't try and charge a battery at more than 10% of it's capacity, so a 105Ah battery should be charged at about 10Amps or there abouts. So a 20Amp charger might be a bit overkill, unless you are time limited.

 

[Deleted member 84]

I use a Durite SCR. I probably average 10~35 or so miles a day. I have two Numax XV35MF 120 AH leisure batteries of several years old, linked together driving two wfp pumps only. I use manual reels. I'm one of the very few that never needs to mains charge. For me with two operators the key details are : that exact SCR, accepting no other than the exact battery model that I use and having both batteries linked together.

What perks are they to linking two batteries up?

I do have x4 leisure battery's at my disposal just want to have a couple running properly.

 

[Deleted member 84]

For split chargers it depends on how many miles you do really.

If the way you have been doing it works then why change? 

If you have a multimeter you could test your battery (after it's rested, ideally for 4 hrs after use or charge) and see what the voltage is. That gives you a clue as to how charged it is but won't tell you if it's capacity has reduced due to age. 

If you search google for AGM battery voltage charts that should give you a guide as to what rested voltage relates to what % of charge.

I seem to remember reading a while ago that you shouldn't try and charge a battery at more than 10% of it's capacity, so a 105Ah battery should be charged at about 10Amps or there abouts. So a 20Amp charger might be a bit overkill, unless you are time limited.

I average around 200 miles per week.

I have x2  digital volt readers plugged to each battery so I can keep an eye on voltage I swap onto another battery once I get to 12.1 volts.

But I'm.hoping I can just fit a split charge and get the charger out once a month or so for a deep charge

 

[AW Services]

What perks are they to linking two batteries up?

I do have x4 leisure battery's at my disposal just want to have a couple running properly.

Greater capacity same voltage when done correctly 

 

[ched999uk]

I average around 200 miles per week.

I have x2  digital volt readers plugged to each battery so I can keep an eye on voltage I swap onto another battery once I get to 12.1 volts.

But I'm.hoping I can just fit a split charge and get the charger out once a month or so for a deep charge

Sounds like you are looking after them by watching the voltages. Interesting page here https://workshoppist.com/agm-battery-state-of-charge/ on State Of Charge for AGM including under load!!! 

If your batteries are of similar age and remaining capacity you could parallel up 2 to give you twice the amp hrs but remember fuses next to +ve battery terminals of interconnects in case of shorts!!! That way if you monitor voltages you should need to charge half as often.

At 200 miles per week you would probably get some useful charge from a Split Charge Relay but if your van is Euro6 then you need a battery to battery charger!!! As some 'smart' alternators put out 18volts under braking mind you I think AGM are OK with that.

 

[Deleted member 84]

Sounds like you are looking after them by watching the voltages. Interesting page here https://workshoppist.com/agm-battery-state-of-charge/ on State Of Charge for AGM including under load!!! 

If your batteries are of similar age and remaining capacity you could parallel up 2 to give you twice the amp hrs but remember fuses next to +ve battery terminals of interconnects in case of shorts!!! That way if you monitor voltages you should need to charge half as often.

At 200 miles per week you would probably 

Thanks everybody for all your help and advice.

What split charge kits does everybody recommend 

If I doubled battery's up could I connect split charge to charge both leisure battery's at once?

I won't be wiring split charge up will be paying a pro to do it

 

[Davy G]

Thanks everybody for all your help and advice.

What split charge kits does everybody recommend 

If I doubled battery's up could I connect split charge to charge both leisure battery's at once?

I won't be wiring split charge up will be paying a pro to do it

The advantages of linking both as far as I'm concerned are that both charge together as they are linked and both share the workload at the same time. A charge to one is a charge to both. A working discharge to both combined is half for each of a single battery. Think of two horses pulling a wagon or a plough together, rather than singly one at a time. Combined they add up to a very large reservoir of power. Cruising rather than one at a time struggling.
I fitted my batteries in professional grade black, flat topped, vented battery boxes. One box on each side of the van with a strong board across the top of the boxes to form a strong low shelf the width of the cargo area.

This is the kit I used. You would need to check that it's suitable for your vehicle. I fitted my SCR unit on the cargo side of the bulkhead for easy visual monitoring and for easy access if they should ever need to be replaced.

The system in my case has been very much, fit and forget. I only see the batteries twice a year to check the connections.

 

[ched999uk]

Thanks everybody for all your help and advice.

What split charge kits does everybody recommend 

If I doubled battery's up could I connect split charge to charge both leisure battery's at once?

I won't be wiring split charge up will be paying a pro to do it

What year and make of van?

If it's EU5 or older then a Durite 0-727-33 is commonly used. Durite also make a 'smart' SCR: 0-727-43 but I'm not that convinced of it even though my system came with one, but I have only had it 2 weeks so not enough experience to comment on it.

Split charge will charge both batteries up at same time.

Paying a decent Pro should be safest way to go. There should be fuses next to each +ve battery connection, rubber grommets where cables pass through metal, cables secured along their route and protected from surroundings (trunking, conduit, etc). 

 

[Deleted member 84]

What year and make of van?

If it's EU5 or older then a Durite 0-727-33 is commonly used. Durite also make a 'smart' SCR: 0-727-43 but I'm not that convinced of it even though my system came with one, but I have only had it 2 weeks so not enough experience to comment on it.

Split charge will charge both batteries up at same time.

Paying a decent Pro should be safest way to go. There should be fuses next to each +ve battery connection, rubber grommets where cables pass through metal, cables secured along their route and protected from surroundings (trunking, conduit, etc). 

It's a 2013 citroen dispatch.

Thank you everybody 

 

[ched999uk]

It's a 2013 citroen dispatch.

Thank you everybody 

Fairly sure that will be Euro 5 at worst so a 'standard Durite 0-727-33' would work.

 

[spruce]

What perks are they to linking two batteries up?

I do have x4 leisure battery's at my disposal just want to have a couple running properly.

When you link batteries together they must be the same capacity, the same type, very similar age and be from the same manufacturer.

 

[spruce]

It's a 2013 citroen dispatch.

Thank you everybody 

I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect solution to recharging our leisure batteries that applies to all.

What I like about the smart Durite 140 amp (and copies) is that they are bi directional. Put the charger you have on the leisure battery and it will link the starter battery in and that will be charged as well. However, the downside is that when both batteries are fully charged and you remove the charger, both batteries are still linked together due to the high voltage (13v +) which hasn't dissipated yet. I have found that it takes a long time before one of the battery's charge has settled down enough to break that connection. In my case, the leisure battery feeds the old starter battery while it's still linked. I can lose up to 5 amps from my leisure battery before the connection is severed. (My starter battery is old and flooded. My leisure battery is just a year old and is a maintenance free combination battery. They are different battery designs.)

My son has a manual scr on his van which needs a positive current to activate it. His is drawn from an ignition source. The moment the ignition is switched off is the moment the relay breaks the charging link. I've also connected these relays to the van's alternator, which has a similar result. The downside is that when 'bench' charging the leisure battery, the starter battery isn't being charged. You also just can't leave your ignition switch on to say listen to the radio, or you start to drain the healthy battery.

I've never really involved myself with AGM batteries so I can't talk with any authority. A lead acid battery will only accept a charge at a certain charge rate. The fuller the charge in the battery the lower the acceptance charge rate.

Take my above example. I got to my van a couple of hours after I removed my smart charger. The leisure battery had been drained of 5 amps. When I started the van the alternator was only replenishing that battery by 2 amps. In theory, that battery would take more than 2 hours to recharge fully. I have a 160 amp alternator on my van.

My 10 amp battery charger doesn't recharge my batteries at 10 amps. It might do if both batteries are flat. I wouldn't gain anything if I replaced my smart charger with a 20 amp one. My leisure battery would still only accept 2 amps.

 

[Deleted member 84]

I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect solution to recharging our leisure batteries that applies to all.

What I like about the smart Durite 140 amp (and copies) is that they are bi directional. Put the charger you have on the leisure battery and it will link the starter battery in and that will be charged as well. However, the downside is that when both batteries are fully charged and you remove the charger, both batteries are still linked together due to the high voltage (13v +) which hasn't dissipated yet. I have found that it takes a long time before one of the battery's charge has settled down enough to break that connection. In my case, the leisure battery feeds the old starter battery while it's still linked. I can lose up to 5 amps from my leisure battery before the connection is severed. (My starter battery is old and flooded. My leisure battery is just a year old and is a maintenance free combination battery. They are different battery designs.)

My son has a manual scr on his van which needs a positive current to activate it. His is drawn from an ignition source. The moment the ignition is switched off is the moment the relay breaks the charging link. I've also connected these relays to the van's alternator, which has a similar result. The downside is that when 'bench' charging the leisure battery, the starter battery isn't being charged. You also just can't leave your ignition switch on to say listen to the radio, or you start to drain the healthy battery.

I've never really involved myself with AGM batteries so I can't talk with any authority. A lead acid battery will only accept a charge at a certain charge rate. The fuller the charge in the battery the lower the acceptance charge rate.

Take my above example. I got to my van a couple of hours after I removed my smart charger. The leisure battery had been drained of 5 amps. When I started the van the alternator was only replenishing that battery by 2 amps. In theory, that battery would take more than 2 hours to recharge fully. I have a 160 amp alternator on my van.

My 10 amp battery charger doesn't recharge my batteries at 10 amps. It might do if both batteries are flat. I wouldn't gain anything if I replaced my smart charger with a 20 amp one. My leisure battery would still only accept 2 amps.

It's answers like this that make this forum the best out there. Thank you

I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect solution to recharging our leisure batteries that applies to all.

What I like about the smart Durite 140 amp (and copies) is that they are bi directional. Put the charger you have on the leisure battery and it will link the starter battery in and that will be charged as well. However, the downside is that when both batteries are fully charged and you remove the charger, both batteries are still linked together due to the high voltage (13v +) which hasn't dissipated yet. I have found that it takes a long time before one of the battery's charge has settled down enough to break that connection. In my case, the leisure battery feeds the old starter battery while it's still linked. I can lose up to 5 amps from my leisure battery before the connection is severed. (My starter battery is old and flooded. My leisure battery is just a year old and is a maintenance free combination battery. They are different battery designs.)

My son has a manual scr on his van which needs a positive current to activate it. His is drawn from an ignition source. The moment the ignition is switched off is the moment the relay breaks the charging link. I've also connected these relays to the van's alternator, which has a similar result. The downside is that when 'bench' charging the leisure battery, the starter battery isn't being charged. You also just can't leave your ignition switch on to say listen to the radio, or you start to drain the healthy battery.

I've never really involved myself with AGM batteries so I can't talk with any authority. A lead acid battery will only accept a charge at a certain charge rate. The fuller the charge in the battery the lower the acceptance charge rate.

Take my above example. I got to my van a couple of hours after I removed my smart charger. The leisure battery had been drained of 5 amps. When I started the van the alternator was only replenishing that battery by 2 amps. In theory, that battery would take more than 2 hours to recharge fully. I have a 160 amp alternator on my van.

My 10 amp battery charger doesn't recharge my batteries at 10 amps. It might do if both batteries are flat. I wouldn't gain anything if I replaced my smart charger with a 20 amp one. My leisure battery would still only accept 2 amps.

I'm thinking of fitting the durlite voltage sensitive kit. 

I'm just going to keep the one battery going.

I'm hoping by doing this I will get away with just bench charging my leisure battery once per week

 

[AW Services]

I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect solution to recharging our leisure batteries that applies to all.

What I like about the smart Durite 140 amp (and copies) is that they are bi directional. Put the charger you have on the leisure battery and it will link the starter battery in and that will be charged as well. However, the downside is that when both batteries are fully charged and you remove the charger, both batteries are still linked together due to the high voltage (13v +) which hasn't dissipated yet. I have found that it takes a long time before one of the battery's charge has settled down enough to break that connection. In my case, the leisure battery feeds the old starter battery while it's still linked. I can lose up to 5 amps from my leisure battery before the connection is severed. (My starter battery is old and flooded. My leisure battery is just a year old and is a maintenance free combination battery. They are different battery designs.)

My son has a manual scr on his van which needs a positive current to activate it. His is drawn from an ignition source. The moment the ignition is switched off is the moment the relay breaks the charging link. I've also connected these relays to the van's alternator, which has a similar result. The downside is that when 'bench' charging the leisure battery, the starter battery isn't being charged. You also just can't leave your ignition switch on to say listen to the radio, or you start to drain the healthy battery.

I've never really involved myself with AGM batteries so I can't talk with any authority. A lead acid battery will only accept a charge at a certain charge rate. The fuller the charge in the battery the lower the acceptance charge rate.

Take my above example. I got to my van a couple of hours after I removed my smart charger. The leisure battery had been drained of 5 amps. When I started the van the alternator was only replenishing that battery by 2 amps. In theory, that battery would take more than 2 hours to recharge fully. I have a 160 amp alternator on my van.

My 10 amp battery charger doesn't recharge my batteries at 10 amps. It might do if both batteries are flat. I wouldn't gain anything if I replaced my smart charger with a 20 amp one. My leisure battery would still only accept 2 amps.

Mr Durite's quote to me was. Leave your lights on hazards without the engine running so one battery is less than the other for the relay to slam shut. Professional no frills technical support 

 

[spruce]

It's answers like this that make this forum the best out there. Thank you

I'm thinking of fitting the durlite voltage sensitive kit. 

I'm just going to keep the one battery going.

I'm hoping by doing this I will get away with just bench charging my leisure battery once per week

To extend the life of your leisure battery, leisure battery manufacturers advise that the battery is fully recharged asap after each time it's used. 

They also recommend that the battery doesn't get drained below 50% of its capacity during daily use. So a 110 amp battery has a working capacity of 55 amps. If you look at the NCC verified battery register you will see that manufacturers rate their batteries longevity (number of charging cycles) to a 50% DOD (depth of discharge).

A single Shurflo pump draws about 4.5 amps per working hour.

My experience is that we use around 15 amps a day and I don't work a full day any more as I can't. When I start my engine there is a surge of amps going into my leisure battery of very short duration. It then reduces down to around 7 to 8 amps.

Our journeys to and from our work area are mainly very short in distance and time. If the drive home takes 15 minutes, all I've recharged my leisure battery with is 2 amps. 

So in reality for me, a scr is a waste of time. But I will never be without it. Many years ago we had a large commercial job a long way from home. For some reason the leisure battery decided that enough was enough not long after we started the job. We were able to run the engine with the van behind a gated area and finish the job.

So I view a scr as a backup.

When I kitted out my current van I went with a Sterling battery to battery charger. Charles Sterling promotes his chargers as the ultimate in battery chargers. They are when considering Euro6 emission requirements and smart alternators. But when compared with my scr on my Euro5 van, there isn't much difference in charging rate.

The benefit is that this b2b charger will boost my alternator output charging voltage from 13.9 volts to 14.2v to my leisure battery. This increase of charging voltage will help increase the charging rate, but over a short travel duration it doesn't make much difference. 

During winter, I still have to run an extension cable out to the van to plug in my frost heater. It takes seconds longer to plug in my smart charger and the charger to charge our backpack. In summer, I plug the chargers in every second evening. If we have had a heavy usage day, then the battery chargers are plugged in that evening.

Leisure Battery Web version October 2020.pdf

 

[Deleted member 84]

After reading through all this I think I'm just going to bench charge every other day

I have x4 leisure batteries to go at so will just have a day a week recharging them all.

My mate who's a windie says he runs his pump off a normal car battery and has a split charge on it he thinks it's a better way than a leisure battery 

I'm guessing he's wrong

 

[ched999uk]

My mate who's a windie says he runs his pump off a normal car battery and has a split charge on it he thinks it's a better way than a leisure battery 

I'm guessing he's wrong

Leisure batteries are designed to be discharged a fair bit then recharges whereas 'car batteries' take a big hit when starting they are recharged straight away. So they are designed to do very different jobs. While a car battery will power pumps it probably won't last as long as a leisure battery. I can't really see how a car battery is better other than it's cheaper but I doubt it will last as long before needing to be replaced.

 

[AW Services]

After reading through all this I think I'm just going to bench charge every other day

I have x4 leisure batteries to go at so will just have a day a week recharging them all.

My mate who's a windie says he runs his pump off a normal car battery and has a split charge on it he thinks it's a better way than a leisure battery 

I'm guessing he's wrong

No don't use a car battery because you'll kill it. Stick to leisure batteries 

 

[spruce]

After reading through all this I think I'm just going to bench charge every other day

I have x4 leisure batteries to go at so will just have a day a week recharging them all.

My mate who's a windie says he runs his pump off a normal car battery and has a split charge on it he thinks it's a better way than a leisure battery 

I'm guessing he's wrong

I have never run a starter battery in place of a leisure battery, although I have been tempted to as an experiment. I believe that if something works for you, or you believe it works for you, then stick with what you know.

If a starter battery recharged faster than a leisure battery using an SCR, then I would certainly have given it a go years ago. But it doesn't, so there is no benefit for me there. The cost advantage, if there is one, isn't enough for me either.

There is a now retired windie living just in the next estate to where we live. He didn't have off-street parking, so he carried his 85 amp hour batteries in every night for recharging. He purchased 2 batteries at the same time, both 85 amp. One was a Lion leisure battery and the other a Lion starter battery. His van was a 2-man setup, although he mainly worked on his own. Only had his pumps to power.

One day he would take out the leisure battery, bring it back and put it on charge. The next day he would take out the starter battery and repeat the process, using each battery every other day.

His leisure battery lasted him 6 months longer than the starter battery, but, as the starter battery cost less, he believed there wasn't much in it price wise. 

IMPO if you are just powering one or two Shurflo pumps then a good standard leisure battery is ideal. If you are also powering a couple of electric hose reels, then you have a choice of a combination leisure battery with a CCA rating or just using a good quality starter battery.