Organising van better for more space

[Incheck]

I don’t really know the best way to go about it, if i put a frame in then it makes no sense as every time you pull a tank out it leaves a gap in the frame therefore they still wouldnt be secured. I’ve been trying to fathom it out for days thinking about it, the only logical choice seems like ratchet straps but lack of anything to fix ratchet straps to the bulk head. And then its all one weight mass, it doesnt really make it any more secure. What are the reasons for difficulty getting insurance cover with tanks fitted? Im guessing if these mass on impact calculations are anything to go by then surely the impact mass of a huge tank full of water is also enough to rip it from any securing brackets it may have? The load in the back doesn’t shift at all if they’re all placed correctly, it would be uncomfortable to drive otherwise and would have had to think of a different option. The best ratchet straps are only rated to 5 tonnes or whatever aren’t they? 20,250kg on impact is 20 tonnes so would render ineffective anyway? I see people using cars carrying 5 or 6 of these full tanks in. How does everyone else using tanks go about things? Im eager to hear


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[Incheck]

Put a pic up if you can slippy so i can see exactly how you’ve done it, would be appreciated [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[slippy]

This is empty with bulkhead then 11 barrels with rachet round them.  Don't take me as a good example necessarily. Not sure what else to use.  A net? 

U should have at least two  things you attach the rachet to near the bulkhead

Check out the new line x on floor on this photo

 

[Incheck]

Ah youve got double side doors which makes securing a bit easier. We only have one side door. There are no loops near the bulkhead whatsoever, i checked the other day. Could be a bit stuffed i think. Thanks for the photos though, it is appreciated [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[Clisty1989]

I use barrels in the car, with Seats up,only carry 6 and if needed refill through the day, in your case a 400l tank bolted in may be best bet, then if running trolley or backpack a 12v transfer hose with refilling nozzle to fill them off the tank. It's what I'm doing when I finally get a van.

 

[dmw]

I had a Grippatank installation in my partner, it is quite dear, but safe, I'm currently insured with Admiral and when I declared it, my policy went up by just £23per year.
I look at the mounting points on my van and they are not designed to be ratcheting tanks in place, they are more just for stopping general items rolling around the van. Good look with what you decide.

Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[Incheck]

To be honest we’ve got by fine, they dont roll around at all as there are other items in the van and they do stay put under their own weight as well as being jammed up against each other, i actually use the tanks to secure other items in place eg. The backpacks, vac, mower, . I dont really want a big tank system for various reasons. So ive been trying to think of ways of going about it but with no securing hooks near the bulkhead to start with it dont really help matters. End of the day its all within the confines of the van walls and they dont move unless they’re empty.


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[Nudel]

You need to clean the outside of your barrels @slippy  :1f602:

 

[Iron Giant]

It is just worth some serious consideration  in the event of a accident, Now lets just say someone has a rta and  the window cleaner with a unsecured load is held at fault and the other party sustains whiplash  and the cops roll up seconds later and vehicles are checked over and photos taken if their is stuff flung all over in the back of a van which for which reasonable steps haven't been taken to secure the load whether multiple items or a single item then you could be prosecuted for transporting a unsecure load.

Now typically the laws as i am aware relate more to hgvs but even so you must have taken reasonable steps to secure a load that you are transporting.

 

[Moor]

I’m insured with more than, told them about my tank that had been fitted and I was just asked if it was a professional install, it was but they didn’t ask for the certificate and there was no increase in my premium.

 

[Incheck]

It is just worth some serious consideration  in the event of a accident, Now lets just say someone has a rta and  the window cleaner with a unsecured load is held at fault and the other party sustains whiplash  and the cops roll up seconds later and vehicles are checked over and photos taken if their is stuff flung all over in the back of a van which for which reasonable steps haven't been taken to secure the load whether multiple items or a single item then you could be prosecuted for transporting a unsecure load.
Now typically the laws as i am aware relate more to hgvs but even so you must have taken reasonable steps to secure a load that you are transporting.

I do respect what you’re saying and appreciate the advice, im still at a pickle when it comes to the doing of it though. If i could i would obviously. But no hooks...

I cant see them moving at all they are heavy. Im sure theres tool boxes, cement mixers, drills, random bits and bobs lying in all sorts of unorderly fashions stored in the back of vans right across the country. If i was to e.g have a collision, theres only a maxium of one or two tanks that could fall or go anywhere, because the others are locked amongst each other if you know what im saying?

Theres plenty of open topped vehicles driving around with all sorts of things loose, scaffolding poles with only a back flap and two low walls, scrap metal trucks with bikes/fridges/ old boilers/radiators piled up in no orderly fashion. multiple lawn mowers on open top pick up trucks that gardeners use.

All quite a bit riskier than my current dilemma i reckon.

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[paul alan]

I do respect what you’re saying and appreciate the advice, im still at a pickle when it comes to the doing of it though. If i could i would obviously. But no hooks...

I cant see them moving at all they are heavy. Im sure theres tool boxes, cement mixers, drills, random bits and bobs lying in all sorts of unorderly fashions stored in the back of vans right across the country. If i was to e.g have a collision, theres only a maxium of one or two tanks that could fall or go anywhere, because the others are locked amongst each other if you know what im saying?

Theres plenty of open topped vehicles driving around with all sorts of things loose, scaffolding poles with only a back flap and two low walls, scrap metal trucks with bikes/fridges/ old boilers/radiators piled up in no orderly fashion. multiple lawn mowers on open top pick up trucks that gardeners use.

All quite a bit riskier than my current dilemma i reckon.

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

There is a solution to every problem, by the sound of things you need to move a little from your current stance to find it.

I take a pen and paper and write down all the pros and cons of different options and then prioritize what's most important, i think you'll agree safety is usually top of the list.

The benefits you get from having a tank in the van will imo outweigh any neg's, I love having a tank full of water at my disposal. It's super convenient and definitely the best for the job.If you did go that route I'm sure you would be glad.

How about this type of thing



you can then board the top and still have loads of space for other things.

I bought a 650ltr tank with frame on eBay for £100, you may be able to find a lay flat tank at around the capacity you want going cheap(er) somewhere. Or if your willing to spend on the problem then you can have a custom built one http://www.plasticwatertanks.co.uk/.

This way you can have the best of both worlds. Lets face it its your place of work and it needs to meet your needs mate.

I DIY  all my own stuff and having done my van at xmas I can honestly say it makes a big difference to your work life 







I think you could possibly have to re-consider all your options and be ready to make a sacrifice here and there to get to where you want to be.

 

[Incheck]

It all has had some serious thought and id rather try to find a way of making the current “better” or more acceptable, e.g. like slippies. It needs to be practical, Im multi-trade like slippy so a big tank would be no good for me as i often need to fill the back with hedge cuttings etc if trimming hedges in the summer. Need to put long reach hedge trimmer, strimmer, mower etc in there also. If your sole purpose is window cleaning then yes its a viable option.

The tanks arent a sole mass as are many other things in vans.

Plenty of items can weigh 20 kg , a vac, a pressure washer, a tool box etc, does everyone ratchet strap these in place when they put them in to make them secure i wonder? Would run out of straps and hooks in no time i would have thought. Not to mention spend half your life strapping and unstrapping. If i didnt care i wouldnt be discussing this but there are pros and cons like you say. If i ran off a van mounted system whats to say a blind person or any other person wouldnt trip over my hose or get it caught in the car wheel like nudels experience even if warning signs were out? Nothings fail safe in the big picture is it. If i was to e.g have a collision, whats to say the mass of water in a big tank wouldn’t rip it off its securing mounts? Bolts can rust/weaken/come loose over time. The height of loose tanks is very low as well whereas a lot of tank systems come 2/3 the height of the van. I like the look of yours more as its flat.

Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[paul alan]

It all has had some serious thought and id rather try to find a way of making the current “better” or more acceptable, e.g. like slippies. It needs to be practical, Im multi-trade like slippy so a big tank would be no good for me as i often need to fill the back with hedge cuttings etc if trimming hedges in the summer. Need to put long reach hedge trimmer, strimmer, mower etc in there also. If your sole purpose is window cleaning then yes its a viable option.
The tanks arent a sole mass as are many other things in vans.
Plenty of items can weigh 20 kg , a vac, a pressure washer, a tool box etc, does everyone ratchet strap these in place when they put them in the make them secure i wonder? Would run out of straps and hooks in no time i would have thought. Not to mention spend half your life strapping and unstrapping. If i didnt care i wouldnt be discussing this but there are pros and cons like you say. If i ran off a van mounted system whats to say a blind person or any other person wouldnt trip over my hose or get it caught in the car wheel like nudels experience even if warning signs were out? Nothings fail safe in the big picture is it. If i was to e.g have a collision, whats to say the mass of water in a big tank wouldn’t rip it off its securing mounts? Bolts can rust/weaken/come loose over time. The height of loose tanks is very low as well whereas a lot of tank systems come 2/3 the height of the van. I like the look of yours more as its flat.


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

trailer system??

 

[Incheck]

trailer system??

nowhere to store it & couldn’t navigate it around small streets + parking issues, then comes the issue of reversing. The weight limits on trailers are often 150kilos or something as well so i count it would be high enough. Then id have to get a tow bar fitted and some sort of cable for the brake lights on the trailer etc. A viable option if youre in texas or a wide open country with big roads and driveways big enough for multiple vehicles but over here where we are all piled on top of one another its a different matter you know


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[paul alan]

nowhere to store it & couldn’t navigate it around small streets + parking issues, then comes the issue of reversing. The weight limits on trailers are often 150kilos or something as well so i count it would be high enough. Then id have to get a tow bar fitted and some sort of cable for the brake lights on the trailer etc. A viable option if youre in texas or a wide open country with big roads and driveways big enough for multiple vehicles but over here where we are all piled on top of one another its a different matter you know


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

Just trying to help with some idea's mate.

Sounds like you know what you don't want anyways.

 

[Incheck]

Yeah i know fella, thanks. Just a mare simply going out & earning a living sometimes all these things you have to think about. Window cleaning was once deemed as a stress free occupation to me would you believe it lol. Then weve got bone idle people too lazy to get up of their bums and work who dont have to comply with anything or worry about anything. just sit at home being lazy when theres barely anything wrong with them. I couldnt live like that though would bore the life out of me


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[Iron Giant]

I do respect what you’re saying and appreciate the advice, im still at a pickle when it comes to the doing of it though. If i could i would obviously. But no hooks...

I cant see them moving at all they are heavy. Im sure theres tool boxes, cement mixers, drills, random bits and bobs lying in all sorts of unorderly fashions stored in the back of vans right across the country. If i was to e.g have a collision, theres only a maxium of one or two tanks that could fall or go anywhere, because the others are locked amongst each other if you know what im saying?

Theres plenty of open topped vehicles driving around with all sorts of things loose, scaffolding poles with only a back flap and two low walls, scrap metal trucks with bikes/fridges/ old boilers/radiators piled up in no orderly fashion. multiple lawn mowers on open top pick up trucks that gardeners use.

All quite a bit riskier than my current dilemma i reckon.

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

I hear what you are saying just don't like to think of someone who is doing a honest days graft to fall foul of the law or insurance company thats all, Would it be possible to build a timber frame in the back of the van like a grid pattern to place 3-4 containers in each grid. 

Don't mention scrap metal boys to me 7 years ago a fridge freezer tipped off the side of one travelling towards me, If I wasn't in a 4x4 it could have put the windscreen in and it was a unsecured load. The cops in my area have clamped right down in recent years. 

 

[Incheck]

No mate a frame would be no good for reasons mentioned earlier in the post ^
I’ve worked out that we fill them to 20 as they are easy to carry, theres only 26 now as weve lost one, the combined weight of 520kg (if we are carrying the lot) , is well within the limits of the 1 tonne payload.
Theres only so much i can do within practical means really. When you’ve got no strapping hooks and need the van for multiple purposes then...
It doesnt shift about as If the load shifted i wouldnt be comfortable driving it you know. The only two hooks weve got are near the rear of the van which are no good as the majority of the weight should be near the bulkhead i read somehwere. No mechanics have ever voiced a concern when weve been to the garage either. I did ask one of them if i should be concerned about what we are carrying and he said no mate you’re fine. That may have been when we had a smaller berlingo with 12/14 tanks in it but could have been the current van cant quite remember.
Read earlier in the posts dude^ as im repeating myself a lot



Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[HollasSpecialistCleaningSystems]

I don’t want to out anyone as wrong, but I’m sure we’re getting calculations wrong here. F=ma yes but a is not mph it’s ms-2. My memory of suvat from mechanics a level is shady so will need to confirm with my friend who is more knowledgable but using the calculations expressed on here; if a seatbelt strap only has a tonne Newtonmeter rating it would easily snap in a low speed car crash with a 10stone man and they don’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

 

[Incheck]

I have found a solution! There are some ventilation grills at the bulkhead, i have figured i can wrap a 5000kg rated lorry strap through the ventilation grills & around the tanks [emoji123] so that’s what i’m going to be doing, problem solved! Thanks for pointing out your concerns, been doing my head in for days trying to find a solution to this!


Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums