Portable WFP questions

[FrontierEC]

Hi All,

I currently have a Gardiner back pack and a phantom pole/brush. I have a couple of questions.

1) Is it true that the average house requires about 20 litres of Pure Water to clean all windows?

2) For those who use trolleys and back packs, do you fill your Pure Water up in barrels at a local water centre or do you have your own filter system at home? It would be a nightmare requiring to refill my 6 x 25lt barrels halfway through 10 houses though.

3) I like Trad cleaning, so I'm aiming to do Trad downstairs and WFP upstairs, to conserve pure water. Does anybody else do that? (I'd imagine so).

Thanks for any help.

 

[Crystalalan]

I use both backpack and also have a tank installed as its useful to have the two options. 95% of the time though I use water from the tank. I also carry a large barrel to fill up the backpack as its quicker then pumping water from the tank. I fill up at a water station. Will fill tank, barrel and backpack.

Not sure what size the average house is to be honest but for a 2/3 bed semi, It would be about 15 ltrs. Im pretty slow at trad cleaning so makes more sense for me to go 100% wfp.

 

[Richyconnett]

I would say 20ltrs is about right for a maintenance clean on an average 3 bed semi.
The way you are working is definitely making harder work of going wfp so producing your own water will cut down on some of it.
There will be guys that work like this but in my opinion you’ll get to the same place as most of us in the end and have a van with a tank in the back, produce your own water and clean everything wfp .

 

[Chuffchuff]

I've done it all and learned the hard way. Learn from my mistakes; my trial and error.

I've been all Trad. I've had a trolley that held one or two 25L barrels or a barrel and a Shurflo backpack.

I've had a 175L tank in an estate car. I've had a one man 400L system in a small van. I've pulled a trailer with that small van with an extra 200L on board. I have a 650L two person system in a medium van.

I understand you generally need to work to a budget when you start out wfp or change from Trad. Not everyone has five figures in their back pocket to spend immediately and some want to be steady part time to busy full time to employing; some want to wind down to retirement.

So unless there is something very unusual about your situation I would suggest that a van system will earn you way more than any other method.

I bit the bullet and leased/purchase a reliable van and installed a 400L tank. My income was transformed.

That should be your minimum future goal. If you can stretch to a medium van with a 500/650 or even 800 capability for future proofing I would go to that.

In the mean time others have answered your questions well. I would add that if possible a small RO at home will pay for itself in time (money) and convenience.

Good luck!

 

[FrontierEC]

Amazing response. Thank you.

Regarding a small home RO - do you have any suggestions? I can't seem to find them on Window Cleaning Warehouse etc.

 

[Chuffchuff]

Amazing response. Thank you.

Regarding a small home RO - do you have any suggestions? I can't seem to find them on Window Cleaning Warehouse etc.

The Streamline type seems a good place to start 150/200/300/450 gpd types.
Depends on your usage (I think the GPD might relate to total amount processed including waste? In U.S. gallons?) and water pressure.

Soap National might be a starting point? But they are all over the internet.

I'm a bit of an outlier on RO's as I now have a PRO/RF Merlin type but I'm lucky to have good water pressure and pay for my water on the old rates system.

Others will give better or more specific advice.

 

[ched999uk]

Amazing response. Thank you.

Regarding a small home RO - do you have any suggestions? I can't seem to find them on Window Cleaning Warehouse etc.

Have a look at Daqua - they do a 450GPD RO https://www.daqua.co.uk/rosystems.htm you would then need a di vessel to get it down to zero tds.
First thing to do is get a good tds meter (Daqua) there are lots of fakes on amazon and ebay. Then test your water pressure (screwfix or toolstation for a gauge) .

I started using a backpack from my car with 6 barrels strapped in. It worked fine for the first 6 months and gave me time to see if I wanted to clean windows and if I could pick up customers. Also when starting you will be slow and wont have many customers so you won't be short of time. Speed comes with experience and practice.
While you may like trad you will probably find once you get up to speed it's easier just to do wfp as long as you have enough pure.

 

[kcleans]

Hi All,

I currently have a Gardiner back pack and a phantom pole/brush. I have a couple of questions.

1) Is it true that the average house requires about 20 litres of Pure Water to clean all windows?

2) For those who use trolleys and back packs, do you fill your Pure Water up in barrels at a local water centre or do you have your own filter system at home? It would be a nightmare requiring to refill my 6 x 25lt barrels halfway through 10 houses though.

3) I like Trad cleaning, so I'm aiming to do Trad downstairs and WFP upstairs, to conserve pure water. Does anybody else do that? (I'd imagine so).

Thanks for any help.

Hello mate.

I use a backpack and it varies from house to house, but a standard 3 bedroom semi detached I'd be around 15 -18 litres, possibly a bit more. Cobweb season, stormy weather etc all mean it will take a bit more. Conservatories can add quite a bit more so factor that in if your customer has one.

I use spotless water as I am in a mid to high tds area (around 250ppm) but will try and get a small RO this year as I get fed up of wasting time fetching it a couple of times a week (it's about a 20 mile round trip for me). If you live close to a spotless station that's a good way of doing it with no upfront costs. My friend has a 150 gpd system, but it can take quite a while to make water so I'd recommend 300gpd or above. Possibly 450gpd as it will produce pure water much quicker. If you live in a low tds area (under 100ppm) then a DI or two DI vessels with resin will be ok.

Nothing wrong with wfp upstairs and then squeegee downstairs. I have done that before but now I just traditional front/back doors and also patio doors. Unless the house is a low level bungalow or flat etc when I just squeegee the whole thing.

 

[dazmond]

The truth is once your used to using wfp it's just easier and faster to clean all your windows on your round WFP so ideally a minimum of 500L tank,hot water system(diesel or immersion),electric reel/100m microbore and carbon poles for easy working days. I also have lots of larger properties with high ground floor windows so it just wouldn't be practical to get an A frame out and squeegee them!

 

[FrontierEC]

Hello mate.

I use a backpack and it varies from house to house, but a standard 3 bedroom semi detached I'd be around 15 -18 litres, possibly a bit more. Cobweb season, stormy weather etc all mean it will take a bit more. Conservatories can add quite a bit more so factor that in if your customer has one.

I use spotless water as I am in a mid to high tds area (around 250ppm) but will try and get a small RO this year as I get fed up of wasting time fetching it a couple of times a week (it's about a 20 mile round trip for me). If you live close to a spotless station that's a good way of doing it with no upfront costs. My friend has a 150 gpd system, but it can take quite a while to make water so I'd recommend 300gpd or above. Possibly 450gpd as it will produce pure water much quicker. If you live in a low tds area (under 100ppm) then a DI or two DI vessels with resin will be ok.

Nothing wrong with wfp upstairs and then squeegee downstairs. I have done that before but now I just traditional front/back doors and also patio doors. Unless the house is a low level bungalow or flat etc when I just squeegee the whole thing.

My nearest Spotless Water station is about 10 miles away. So not too bad. I'll probably go with this option until work picks up.

So I take it with the back pack you have barrels/tank in your van? And you drive to refill when needed? How many barrels do you have (or how big is your tank)?

 

[ched999uk]

My nearest Spotless Water station is about 10 miles away. So not too bad. I'll probably go with this option until work picks up.

So I take it with the back pack you have barrels/tank in your van? And you drive to refill when needed? How many barrels do you have (or how big is your tank)?

Be aware of your vehicles load carrying capacity and strap the barrels down as in the event of an accident they are just missiles hurtling towards the back of your seat or head!
I used to carry 6 barrels.

 

[Jaygti]

I your just starting out, I’d definitely go with spotless to start with.
No point wasting money on lots of kit, only to find you don’t like it , or can’t make a go of it, it’s just throwing money away.
Get all the kit once you’re up and running

 

[kcleans]

My nearest Spotless Water station is about 10 miles away. So not too bad. I'll probably go with this option until work picks up.

So I take it with the back pack you have barrels/tank in your van? And you drive to refill when needed? How many barrels do you have (or how big is your tank)?

Yes I have water containers. I have a mix of 25 litre and also some 10 litre ones. I plan each day where I'm going and if necessary I'll work my way home towards lunchtime and refill. I do a mix of wfp and traditional so I don't always need lots of pure water. Probably use anything between about 40 and 80 litres a day. I don't have an ibc tank at home as I don't have room, so I stood a couple of rainwater butts in the garage. When I get home from filling at spotless I have an electronic pump that one part goes in to the top of the barrel and a hose that goes into the top of the water butt and just transfer it. It can be a bit time consuming and once I'm a bit busier I'll upgrade to a small tank I hope.

 

[FrontierEC]

Yes I have water containers. I have a mix of 25 litre and also some 10 litre ones. I plan each day where I'm going and if necessary I'll work my way home towards lunchtime and refill. I do a mix of wfp and traditional so I don't always need lots of pure water. Probably use anything between about 40 and 80 litres a day. I don't have an ibc tank at home as I don't have room, so I stood a couple of rainwater butts in the garage. When I get home from filling at spotless I have an electronic pump that one part goes in to the top of the barrel and a hose that goes into the top of the water butt and just transfer it. It can be a bit time consuming and once I'm a bit busier I'll upgrade to a small tank I hope.

Awesome. That sounds similar to what I'm planning. Try and do traditional as much as I can but use WFP for the difficult windows. Then refill at a Spotless Water station if and when needed.

 

[spruce]

Hi All,

I currently have a Gardiner back pack and a phantom pole/brush. I have a couple of questions.

1) Is it true that the average house requires about 20 litres of Pure Water to clean all windows?

2) For those who use trolleys and back packs, do you fill your Pure Water up in barrels at a local water centre or do you have your own filter system at home? It would be a nightmare requiring to refill my 6 x 25lt barrels halfway through 10 houses though.

3) I like Trad cleaning, so I'm aiming to do Trad downstairs and WFP upstairs, to conserve pure water. Does anybody else do that? (I'd imagine so).

Thanks for any help.

We started off trad and swapped over to wfp 20 years ago. I had a trailer with 450l of pure on board. I carried another 100l in the back of my Suzuki Carry van.

My initial plan was tops only wfp and trad bottoms. I figured out within a couple of hours that I was wasting time swapping over to trad for bottom windows. I'm also short, so I needed a step ladder to reach the tops of a lot of downstairs windows.

As you appear to me to already be a window cleaner doing trad and will be changing customers over, you really need to be starting with a van and onboard tank.

A 450gpd r/o will produce enough water for 1 cleaner. But as it processes water very slowly, you will need to store water in an ibc tank at home and transfer your daily needs into your van.

Starting wfp is an expensive investment.

A 450gpd will not produce 450 gallons of pure a day. The day is 24 hours long and is American gallons. It's rated at this with the ideal input water temperature, tds and pressure. You will never achieve the ideal conditions at home. I started with a 450gpd r/o processing into a second hand 1000l ibc tank. If memory serves it took 36 hours to fill it, but once full, it kept me on my own with more than enough for my daily needs.
The colder the tap water is, the slower the r/o will produce pure water. So an r/o will produce pure quicker in summer when the tap water is warmer than in the dead of winter.

 

[Crystalalan]

Wow suzuki super carry. Now thats a blast from the past.

 

[spruce]

Wow suzuki super carry. Now thats a blast from the past.

The reason why I carried extra water in the van was mainly for ballast. The weight of the trailer was a couple of kgs heavier than I was allowed to pull with my van. It's the tow vehicle weight limit regulations. Having 100l in the van and my weight made the Suzuki legal to tow that weight.
If I ran out of water, I had 100 liters I could use to carry on with and finish the day.

In those early days we didn't have flow controllers. When a while later I did buy a couple of Varistreams, I reduced the amount of water I used a day and hardly ever used that 100 liters backup.

Winter was difficult with a trailer as it was so open to the elements. I later purchased a second hand 1.9 diesel Citroen Relay van and fitted a 650 litre tank into it. Life became so much easier with a van.

 

[kcleans]

Awesome. That sounds similar to what I'm planning. Try and do traditional as much as I can but use WFP for the difficult windows. Then refill at a Spotless Water station if and when needed.

I am quite lucky in that quite a bit of my work is bungalows, so if they are low level it can actually be quite quick to just squeegee them. Funnily enough that's what my day is like today. The guys on here are right that if you want to do more wfp then a van and a pump system will enable you to do alot more work and do it quicker. It's not just the amount of water you can carry, it's also not the refilling the backpack etc.

I don't use a ladder unless it's a blocked downpipe on a gutter clear or something like that. I have never had a customer query that.

I worked out years ago that a 100gpd with a pump (my father-in-law had one for his fish tank) would make about 12 litres of pure water an hour, but you can't run the pump 24/7 and have to turn it off every 90 minutes or so for half an hour. It would be never be able to make enough water for window cleaning. That's in reasonable conditions. If it's cold it can be a bit slower.