Pricing past and present

[Potta81]

I’m moving to wfp in the summer, It all boils down to safety in my thinking. I currently have a helper but if I didn’t in the winter months I’d be missing out houses or leaving windows where I needed footing etc. Wfp will eliminate this problem where I’m 100% safe. I’m nearly 40 now, while that might not be “old” it’s made me think more about making things safer & hopefully easier. There’s definitely a place for trad & people who want to do it it’s obviously fine. My old gaffer is wfp & around 8-10 years ago he advised me to move over to which I replied yeah I’ll look into it. I had no intention really as I thought how can it possibly do as good a job? I saw him around 6 months ago & told him I’m moving to wfp & he let me look at the windows he’d cleaned on a house half an hour earlier a few doors down & i couldn’t find a mark on them. He said even the customers who didn’t want wfp now prefer it to trad like so many have said on here. It’s an each to there own kind of thing, in the right hands they both get the windows clean!

 

[laddergarder]

@Pjj @Davy G I didn't say I want repect. I said tradittional window cleaning as a method deserves repect. Ie not bashed to make your point that WFP is good. You dont see a guy with a drill, slagging off a guy using a screw driver. They both have there benifits. 

"Your going to take your finger off one of these days", "aye but mind wont run of off charge and I can fit mine in my pocket". Ludicrous argument.

My point is if its a street with no parking,  half a dozen small bottom flats. I am tradding it, wfp or not. If I am working in the town doing shop's, there is no parking, allot of people around. I am not getting a hose out. Working on craddles or harnesses on large comercials, they use a squeegee.

If its a large house easy parking lots of windows(thats not wooden), and I have a  wfp, sure I would prefer WFP. If its large victorian sandstone biulding huge leaded windows. WFP all the way. Large commercial lots of big slabs of glass everywhere, perfect. 

They are both good methods. Nothing is perfect. You use the best tool for the job. Which is not always WFP, and if your going to spend 2k on a peice of equipment, it has to be a justified and suitable investment. Which will be different for everyone of us.

Most in my town are traditional window cleaners. There is one guy who uses Wfp, but on domestic, they only use it for dormas etc. Because there is usually 3 or 4 of them to a van.

 

[Iron Giant]

That's what I did I charged the new walk ups asking me if I would do them £10 , I wasn't bothered if they walked away as im not under pressure my round is full . So after a few accepted £10 I thought this is getting difficult as neighbours talk ( exactly same house know what  I mean ) so next April 6th I put them all up to same amount in 2 years I will hike them up again to £12 .

At the moment though round is full and age im at im mindfull of my knees ( ladderwork ) so im not so much after the houses, more the gold dust bungalows and taking my private pension around 55-58 years old and drop all my houses and keep the bungalows on .

I would have thought that a £4 increase over 3 years on a average 4 bed house would be hard for most to swallow

 

[fast_muchly]

I actually clean one job, 3 stories, where the traditional guy can't reach the third floor. He cleans the first 2 floors every 2 weeks and I do the top floor once a month. Every 3 months she asks me to clean the whole house because it cleans the windows properly. She only keeps him because he's been her window cleaner for 15 years. 

At the end of the day we're all working lads and can think whichever way we clean windows is best. What isn't in question is no matter what way you clean windows is if you're a cowboy you'll do a bad job and within 5 years using ladders will be banned on H&S grounds, legally it already is. 

Im sorry but this one especially made me chuckle .

Have you ever considered that she only keeps you to do the top windows he cant reach and tells you that comment to get all the frames done without wounding your pride . Thinkabout it who keeps on 2 window cleaners . I will tell you what she thinks she thinks the trad man does the  actual panes better but keeps you on for the top windows and cleaning once In a while the whole UPVC .

Im not going to carry on arguing on here as its pointless , your all convinced you have a better way because you have spent thousands on equipment . The FACT is you don't clean the panes as good as a trad man does FACT !! .

Personally I will also give way on you prob clean the vents on top of windows better ( but customer isn't looking thru them are they )  , I do clean round the upvc , IF it starts to collect dirt if a customer particularly asked me to do it I would charge a lot more ( TIME ) to do it .

As a tradder its the panes , detailing , sills ( which you lot all leave wet through ) and you cant even see the damn sills to know if there clean that are above your head . I will give an extra wipe around the window on the upvc where I see dirt collecting , which a WFP cleaner will wash the whole window by that I mean all the upvc or SHOULD DO . 

But when we are talking about Pane and Sill you CANNOT beat us .

Im not lying when I say this I have umpteen customers who have sacked the WFP guy because he DIDNT clean the windows propery and they will flatly refuse another one absolutely loads . If your all honest you wont be able to say that the other way around .

 

[fast_muchly]

This all reminds me of that TV program where there spending loads on food thinking that just because there going to Sainsburys instead of ALDI  there getting better stuff for it . 

And they prove it by swapping stuff around for a lot cheaper alternatives and then making them eat it for a week coming back and revealing what  food is still the same and what food they have swapped out .

Its just like that , your all trying to convince yourself you haven't wasted your money , you haven't wasted your money , you don't climb ladders ( you made that choice ) ,your a lot faster you earn more ( you made that choice ) , But you don't clean windows the best ( YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ) so live with it .

 

[Wind o kleen]

This all reminds me of that TV program where there spending loads on food thinking that just because there going to Sainsburys instead of ALDI  there getting better stuff for it . 

And they prove it by swapping stuff around for a lot cheaper alternatives and then making them eat it for a week coming back and revealing what  food is still the same and what food they have swapped out .

Its just like that , your all trying to convince yourself you haven't wasted your money , you haven't wasted your money , you don't climb ladders ( you made that choice ) ,your a lot faster you earn more ( you made that choice ) , But you don't clean windows the best ( YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ) so live with it .

School breaks over back into class kids ? 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

You can't comment regarding wfp if you have no experience doing it. All you end up saying is what some folk have told you and they usually know nothing about it. For first cleans trad will win hands down on the glass but wfp will win on the frames. I wfp a first clean then go up and trad the glass with my scraper. It will take an hour or so but that's it done and I don't need to do it again.

 

[fast_muchly]

You can't comment regarding wfp if you have no experience doing it. All you end up saying is what some folk have told you and they usually know nothing about it. For first cleans trad will win hands down on the glass but wfp will win on the frames. I wfp a first clean then go up and trad the glass with my scraper. It will take an hour or so but that's it done and I don't need to do it again.

Oh my god 

You have just backed up everything I am saying .

Why then do you go up on a first clean and do it trad if WFP is better WHY …..cant believe you have just said that lol . 

And I don't need to do it its common sense , you cant put the pressure on a pane upstairs a trad man can , you cant even see thedamn sills that a trad man can up your ladders . And surely a customers comment when your being employed by a walk up who has sacked the WFP person has some sort of weight to it that tells you why. 

When a customers says this to me having just sacked a WFP guy I actually stick up for your guys . I do say I don't want to get into it but I know where your coming from and leave it at that . I don't pend hours bashing you guys we all have a living to make and I can see why you all do it believe me . But what I don't like is the lack of respect .

Your all happy to say oh look theres the poor trad guy " a busy fool poor bloke he aint wised up lol and he don't clean as well as me either , why don't you use WFP  " but respect to him .

When infact what you should be saying bloody hell hats off to ya mate you do a better job but Im a lot faster and safer . 

 

[Iron Giant]

This all reminds me of that TV program where there spending loads on food thinking that just because there going to Sainsburys instead of ALDI  there getting better stuff for it . 

And they prove it by swapping stuff around for a lot cheaper alternatives and then making them eat it for a week coming back and revealing what  food is still the same and what food they have swapped out .

Its just like that , your all trying to convince yourself you haven't wasted your money , you haven't wasted your money , you don't climb ladders ( you made that choice ) ,your a lot faster you earn more ( you made that choice ) , But you don't clean windows the best ( YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ) so live with it .

I know I haven't wasted my money because I do a full and through clean first time every time and have 100's of happy clients I have been in business almost 20 years and have done both methods so I know full well of the pros and cons of both if someone chooses not to do a proper job

I also haven't wasted my money as I know, I am no longer at risk of another fall and potentially putting myself at risk of spending the rest of my life in wheelchair, which I came very close to over 17 years ago, most of us that are shouting up for wfp have been in this industry for 10 years and well beyond and have a great deal of experience in this industry

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I do it so I can scrap any paint off the glass or anything else that the brush won't remove. After that its just a scrub with the brush and a rinse down. I wouldn't worry about it, whatever one prefers and you go with it. 

 

[fast_muchly]

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

 

[mike007]

Surprising debate between Trad and WFP. And surprising too the amount of WFP guys who have never done Trad!!.As a professional window cleaner (do it full time as a business) I am good at both. I WFP upstair windows  to avoid using ladders but still use ladders at appropriate times(using my common sense H&S assesments) and Trad downstairs.

I think a more thorough job is done when you are up,  close and personal with the window doing Trad as some others have already stated.

WFP is quicker,needs less experience and easier to master, which is why so many are just setting up using this system and why many customers get a raw deal by many operators who are just out to make "easy" money. Problem with this forum is that the WFP guys on here are proffesional in their working practices and mainly do a good job and ignore the amount of slap dash guys using their water fed poles and doing a bad job because  they are using WFP and WFP is good!!.

Similarly the "beer token" brigade with Trad gives Trad a bad name.

I KNOW I am slower using my method, but I again KNOW if I am doing a house, and a WFP guy is doing the next one and a neighbour across the road is looking and wanting a window cleaner, they will see the WFP guys time he takes, and the time I take...and I will get the enquiry.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

You might find you are friendless now on this site. Even if someone mention a soap powder you might begin an arguement. Maybe a course in anger management will do you the world of good.

 

[mike007]

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

I disagree, scrim is best, microfibre get wet too quickly i find.

 

[fast_muchly]

I disagree, scrim is best, microfibre get wet too quickly i find.

That was my big worry Mike but im finding it doesn't but I am using a Moerman as well so less to mop up .

 

[Part Timer]

Im sorry but this one especially made me chuckle .

Have you ever considered that she only keeps you to do the top windows he cant reach and tells you that comment to get all the frames done without wounding your pride . Thinkabout it who keeps on 2 window cleaners . I will tell you what she thinks she thinks the trad man does the  actual panes better but keeps you on for the top windows and cleaning once In a while the whole UPVC .

Im not going to carry on arguing on here as its pointless , your all convinced you have a better way because you have spent thousands on equipment . The FACT is you don't clean the panes as good as a trad man does FACT !! .

Personally I will also give way on you prob clean the vents on top of windows better ( but customer isn't looking thru them are they )  , I do clean round the upvc , IF it starts to collect dirt if a customer particularly asked me to do it I would charge a lot more ( TIME ) to do it .

As a tradder its the panes , detailing , sills ( which you lot all leave wet through ) and you cant even see the damn sills to know if there clean that are above your head . I will give an extra wipe around the window on the upvc where I see dirt collecting , which a WFP cleaner will wash the whole window by that I mean all the upvc or SHOULD DO . 

But when we are talking about Pane and Sill you CANNOT beat us .

Im not lying when I say this I have umpteen customers who have sacked the WFP guy because he DIDNT clean the windows propery and they will flatly refuse another one absolutely loads . If your all honest you wont be able to say that the other way around .

She pays me more to clean the top floor than the trad guy gets for the other 2. She asks me to clean her windows when she's away, owns a house in Spain and goes for 3 months, but not the trad guy. I know this because the trad guy laughed when he saw me cleaning them, told me she was on holiday and told him she didn't want them cleaning and said I wouldn't get paid. The best one is every 6 months she gets us to do the internals because we take more care. 

 

[Martyn]

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

I recently got a couple of new scrims for the limited amount of trad I still do, reliving what a PITA they are to break in so that they absorb water instead of pushing it around the glass, I was thinking about getting some big microfibre so I think you have convinced me to try a couple.

 

[ks789]

I recently got a couple of new scrims for the limited amount of trad I still do, reliving what a PITA they are to break in so that they absorb water instead of pushing it around the glass, I was thinking about getting some big microfibre so I think you have convinced me to try a couple.

 I have a few places that are trad, older type cottages with smaller wooden framed pains. some of these, its better to just use damp scrim, and then dry off with dry scrim. I find the microfibre will not glide across the glass so well.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I do trad or wfp now. It doesn't bother me what i'm doing as long as i'm earning. I had 4 days painting in a church last week and this week i have to replace 8 tiles on a step when temp is up. Someone asked how i can be bothered acting like Mr Benn, wearing different hats all the time. I have always tried to tackle something on my own and that's how i have always had work. The only problem now is that i don't have the space to store stuff now. So next year i will be cutting back with odd jobs and just adding to my window cleaning business. I'm going to concentrate on semi or detached houses in nearly new estates because that's where i am having the best success. I am expensive but one customer gave me the nudge that i needed. I told her she would be around £13 to £15 a month to clean her detached house and she said she was happy with £15 a month. Another new customer went with me after saying £8 a month was to expensive but I'm a tenner a month. I don't think the money has much to do with it now. I think it all comes down to trust, reliability, good result and last but not least is the price. They can either afford it or they can't.

 

[dazmond]

using ladders in this winter weather used to be awful when i was 100% trad,how i didnt break my neck ill never know!i was younger and stupid at times....i was like a stuntman without the glamour!? clambering on frosty/icy roofs,etc....

any window cleaner who is still trad in this day and age are either too scared to change over,too long in the tooth to change(in their 60s or 70s) or are really skint and just about scratching a living together and cant afford it....

your missing out A LOT.......

1.you can charge more when wfp(due to cleaning frames/doors and awkward windows as standard)

2.you can clean quicker than trad

3.its much safer

4.you can now take on bigger,better more awkward jobs that would be impossible on ladders

put these 4 together and you ll earn more money in less time in a safer manner.....despite the higher expenses compared to trad im still quids in (for less hours too!)...

when i was trad i was working around 40 hours a week(including collecting,admin,etc)earning around £18,000 a year(expenses £2,000 a year)....this was nearly 10 years ago now

fast forward 10 years and i work around 30 hours a week(including admin,purifying water,etc)earning around £45,000 a year(expenses £8,000 a year)the reason my expenses are so high  is i use a diesel hot water system,drive around in a nice new van and use the best professional electric reels and xtreme poles but i dont care,they make my working day easier..i only actually window clean for 5 hours a day most days(the other hour filling up,charging batteries,admin,etc)....

electronic payments have eliminated collecting and round software have made this job a breeze to organize,get paid,book keeping,accounts,etc....

after all expenses,tax,insurances etc im left with around £30k-£32k in profit every year,in my trad days it was around £14k a year....

 

[Potta81]

I disagree, scrim is best, microfibre get wet too quickly i find.

scrim autum winter, microfibre spring summer. Prefer microfibres as they don’t leave any lint fibres behind which shows up & looks horrendous when the suns on the glass!