Pricing past and present

[dazmond]

dont you trad guys get sick of climbing ladders just to clean an upper window?do you ever think about your safety?i spent 17 years on the ladders and switched to WFP nearly 10 years ago now...its the single best thing ive ever done in window cleaning......

its crazy to still be trad in this day and age IMO...theres just no need to do it anymore.....

 

[laddergarder]

i dont get how that property would take you 30 mins?its a 10-15 min job(including frames,sills and doors washed down)easy......HOT WFP

I am trad, and it wouldn't take to quite as much as 30mins. But I would set about 30 mins to deal with it. Racking ladders off the van, doing the job. Dealing with the customer, packing up, driving or walking to the next job etc. 

I would honestly do about 2 of them and hour and be quite happy with that. Maybe I am slow. I have used wfp before and they are a bit faster on the job, but for me it doesn't suit. I wouldn't get parked near half my jobs for one. 

 

[laddergarder]

dont you trad guys get sick of climbing ladders just to clean an upper window?do you ever think about your safety?i spent 17 years on the ladders and switched to WFP nearly 10 years ago now...its the single best thing ive ever done in window cleaning......

its crazy to still be trad in this day and age IMO...theres just no need to do it anymore.....

Honestly I dont want to have a trad vs wfp debate. I have used both, and they both have possitives and negatives. We have heard every up and down of both on here too many times. Each to there own.

 

[Davy G]

Honestly I dont want to have a trad vs wfp debate. I have used both, and they both have possitives and negatives. We have heard every up and down of both on here too many times. Each to there own.

Totally! ??

 

[Potta81]

dont you trad guys get sick of climbing ladders just to clean an upper window?do you ever think about your safety?i spent 17 years on the ladders and switched to WFP nearly 10 years ago now...its the single best thing ive ever done in window cleaning......

its crazy to still be trad in this day and age IMO...theres just no need to do it anymore.....

I’m changing over in the summer dreading it but can’t wait either!

 

[spruce]

I’m changing over in the summer dreading it but can’t wait either!

No, no, please don't dread it. Spring into summer is a good time as the weather is warmer and the windows will dry quicker.

For me, stupidly stepping off my ladder at 1st story height when I thought I was on the ground was my warning shot. I was bruised and battered and in pain for weeks, but no bones broken. I have always struggled with back issues all my life, but they are much worse since this fall. Don't ask me to explain it, I can't. But as my son says, I'm the only one he has ever seen who can slip into a coma and still remain standing on my feet. When it happens I get through lots of water but don't seem to clean any windows. ?

For me, its life saving because I would probably either be dead if I was still trad or have life changing injuries. Personally, you are doing the right thing. Yes its an expense and running a wfp system isn't cheap like trad is, but I would rather be alive in relative health than a vegetable.

Just saying it like I see it and not meaning to offend anyone.

 

[Potta81]

No, no, please don't dread it. Spring into summer is a good time as the weather is warmer and the windows will dry quicker.

For me, stupidly stepping off my ladder at 1st story height when I thought I was on the ground was my warning shot. I was bruised and battered and in pain for weeks, but no bones broken. I have always struggled with back issues all my life, but they are much worse since this fall. Don't ask me to explain it, I can't. But as my son says, I'm the only one he has ever seen who can slip into a coma and still remain standing on my feet. When it happens I get through lots of water but don't seem to clean any windows. ?

For me, its life saving because I would probably either be dead if I was still trad or have life changing injuries. Personally, you are doing the right thing. Yes its an expense and running a wfp system isn't cheap like trad is, but I would rather be alive in relative health than a vegetable.

Just saying it like I see it and not meaning to offend anyone.

yes it just shows u don’t have to be high to get injuries. Someone working with me around 10 years ago was cleaning a fsg off an A frame on a rubber garage roof. It was wet with green moss. He went up 2-3 rungs & it kicked out Landing on his side on the ladder bruising his ribs. Ended up haven’t a few days off. He was only a few feet from the edge of the roof as well. I made my mind up at the end of last year I was changing over.

id be changing sooner but we’re losing our garage to an extension that’s being started in May. So I won’t get it back to store an ibc until it’s finished, probably August! Like I said part of me is dreading it but I’m looking forward to it as well

 

[Martyn]

I’m changing over in the summer dreading it but can’t wait either!

Don't dread it, just do it, it'll be the best move you ever made.

 

[Mx19]

Don't dread it, just do it, it'll be the best move you ever made.

agreed, so happy I made the switch!! My income and business has grown exponentially!

 

[fast_muchly]

why not invest in wfp much easier on the body especially if only doing estate type houses .

I was dreading somone asking this and im not going to answer it because all the WTP merchants wont like my answer lol .

 

[Martyn]

I was dreading somone asking this and im not going to answer it because all the WTP merchants wont like my answer lol .

Still some members of the flat earth society around I see. ?

 

[fast_muchly]

I am trad, and it wouldn't take to quite as much as 30mins. But I would set about 30 mins to deal with it. Racking ladders off the van, doing the job. Dealing with the customer, packing up, driving or walking to the next job etc. 

I would honestly do about 2 of them and hour and be quite happy with that. Maybe I am slow. I have used wfp before and they are a bit faster on the job, but for me it doesn't suit. I wouldn't get parked near half my jobs for one. 

Spot on and if I went WFP on my round I would lose half my customers straight away ( puts his tin hat on ) im also happy with 2 properties an hour for this type of house .

 

[Pjj]

I was dreading somone asking this and im not going to answer it because all the WTP merchants wont like my answer lol .

Everyone is entitled to there opinions, but you cannot condemn something you have never tried , I was trad and several friends went over to wfp , I argued with them for a couple of years saying I could get better results than them , eventually I went out with them for a day and quickly realised I didn’t know what I was talking about , the rest as they say is history.

Why do you think you would loose half your customers ??  I lost two out of 350 , one customer I cleaned her windows wfp for over two years she was always delighted with the results , but was never in when I did them , she was in one day on holiday and came out and went mental about the water in the wall and path ,I explained that I had been doing them this way for over two years and she was happy with the results , she said what I was doing was unacceptable,so I politely asked her who did she complain to when it rains ?. Did rain water hurt her house and path ?? Needless to say she didn’t see the funny side and is now an ex customer ???, I very much doubt you would loose more than a handful at most , many probebly including you are afrade of change , I was when I swapped over knowing what I know now I should have done it years ago take the leap of faith you will never go back , I have gone from 350 to over 2500 customers and doing work that could never be done trad , easier working day and considerably better income 

 

[Martyn]

When I went WFP about 18 years ago it was a complete leap of faith, I had only vaguely heard about it from somewhere, I had never seen it in action and there were only a couple of businesses using it here. At that time I was not friendly with either of them so couldn't ask for info/help.

I was suffering severe skin problems with my hands and was very close to having to give up window cleaning.

I ordered a Reach & Wash system with a 12ft fibreglass pole and a 40ft fibreglass pole. (those poles were ****!)

I wrote to all my customers telling tham I was making the change and telling them the advantages, I didn't lose a single one.

 

[laddergarder]

I get some of you guys are big advocate for WFP. It is brilliant that the forum has guys/gals like you to advise others who want to take it up. But it seems to me that allot are very dismissive off and like to bash traditional window cleaning. 

(Probablly from selling it to your customers like that for so long IMO)

Its doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere to trad guys or newbies starting out using traditional methods. Because when they come on here for advice all they will get is buy a WFP. Which may not be good advise for them and where they are in business.

There is positive and negatives to both methods. I have used WFP, and its not a perfect method without its downsides. Nor is traditional.

Many of you who are now WFP made a living for a long time cleaning traditionally. Some of you for a few decades. So you can't honestly say it doesn't deserve its place as a respected method to clean windows professionally.

A joiner will still use a scew driver and hammer, even though he may have a nail gun and an electric drill. Both tools have a place in his/her arsenal. 

 

[Martyn]

I wouldn't like to give the impression that I am knocking trad, I've still got a squeegy and enjoy using it occasionally, but I couldn't make enough money to survive with it.

Each of us is entitled to choose our own way and good luck to all.

 

[fast_muchly]

To be honest I haven't tried WFP agreed  .

But I have 2 facts  Fact 1 is I have absolutely loads of customers who have sacked there WFP cleaner and would not employ another one for poor cleaning ,that's why they want a traditional Cleaner .

Fact 2 …….. I have personally walked up a road to inspect a said WFP cleaners work as he was only there around 5 mins ( front only though I will give him that ) and what I saw was shocking ( but this is one guy I admit , there are bad trad cleaners ) . There was a really big dollop of bird muck on that window and this guy had just taken the top off  and the stain was still on the window .

What I believe personally .

                                         No matter what you say or how you want to spin it you cant clean windows better than a tradional window cleaner end off . You cant get the pressure unless your at the window to clean the nasty bits off . Say what you want hot water clean blah blah blah . 

The ONLY thing WFP has over trad is being able to reach windows a trad cleaner cannot get to that's it end off and that's the place it has in the market  and obviously not falling off your ladders .

A lot of you WFP don't like admitting it cost you spent thousands on equipment and cant clean as well as getting close up and personal but you just don't want to admit it and hide behind scoffing at the old fashioned way . 

I agree you earn more as your faster so it also has that advantage but no way would I go WFP im happy cleaning them that little bit better .

P.s I didn't start this lol , someone did ask why I don't go WFP and im not going to lie and be polite . I also say this to WFP people who ask me why In the street ( afterall they did ask ) .

Not trying to offend or cause arguments but for me a lot of WFP think there the bees knees and they truly are NOT !!

 

[Martyn]

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong! ?

In skilled hands WFP is every bit as good as trad can be and in my opinion better. Many of my customers in the early days told me that their windows were staying cleaner for longer.

Did it cost me thousands? Yes, but the payback is so worth it.

What WFP has suffered from is a lot of guys looking to make easy money and doing a sloppy job, often with that big brand logo on their van.

If you're happy with what you do and you're good at it I salute you!

I think all window cleaners should have trad skills, it's an important aspect of the business.

 

[Davy G]

I get some of you guys are big advocate for WFP. It is brilliant that the forum has guys/gals like you to advise others who want to take it up. But it seems to me that allot are very dismissive off and like to bash traditional window cleaning. 

(Probablly from selling it to your customers like that for so long IMO)

Its doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere to trad guys or newbies starting out using traditional methods. Because when they come on here for advice all they will get is buy a WFP. Which may not be good advise for them and where they are in business.

There is positive and negatives to both methods. I have used WFP, and its not a perfect method without its downsides. Nor is traditional.

Many of you who are now WFP made a living for a long time cleaning traditionally. Some of you for a few decades. So you can't honestly say it doesn't deserve its place as a respected method to clean windows professionally.

A joiner will still use a scew driver and hammer, even though he may have a nail gun and an electric drill. Both tools have a place in his/her arsenal. 

From my perspective, I have the greatest respect for anyone who goes out and works for a living, whatever they do. The harder they work to put food on the table the more I respect them.

My order of respect would be something like this : care workers and nurses, cleaners, dustmen, gardeners, trad window cleaners, wfp window cleaners, delivery drivers, posties. I respect them all certainly but the more one has to struggle to make a living the more empathy and respect I have for them.

The way I see it though in our trade is ; I can't see it being possible that trad from ladders is not far harder, slower, more risky and  dangerous than working from the ground with wfp. I can't see it being anywhere near as fast as wfp or as lucrative. My son and I working together strive for at least £2 a minute on the brush and mostly we are achieving closer to £3 a minute as a duo once we pull up on a job, and we can sustain that rate of speed for the whole day by working as a a highly efficient team. I'm nearly 64 and am still buzzing when I get home. I work like for like with my son and am actually slightly quicker. We service about six hundred properties, mostly six weekly working usually about six or seven hours, 5 days. I would not be able to manage this at my age if working with ladders. I would hold our quality of work as a match for anyone else's I've seen.

We've been passed work by trad guys,cutting down and we can see that our results have always been better (vents, crevices, sills, underneath sills). We can see from the customers faces that they also see the improvement.

I have never done trad, I wouldn't willingly work full time with wet, cold hands (I worked on pipelines and utilities for 20 years with cold wet hands for a lot of that time) or from ladders, for genuine health and safety reasons though I use them without hesitation for gutter emptying.

Full respect to you trad operators. From my point of view I just want to help folk prosper, safely. ?

 

[Pjj]

I get some of you guys are big advocate for WFP. It is brilliant that the forum has guys/gals like you to advise others who want to take it up. But it seems to me that allot are very dismissive off and like to bash traditional window cleaning. 

(Probablly from selling it to your customers like that for so long IMO)

Its doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere to trad guys or newbies starting out using traditional methods. Because when they come on here for advice all they will get is buy a WFP. Which may not be good advise for them and where they are in business.

There is positive and negatives to both methods. I have used WFP, and its not a perfect method without its downsides. Nor is traditional.

Many of you who are now WFP made a living for a long time cleaning traditionally. Some of you for a few decades. So you can't honestly say it doesn't deserve its place as a respected method to clean windows professionally.

A joiner will still use a scew driver and hammer, even though he may have a nail gun and an electric drill. Both tools have a place in his/her arsenal. 

I started out trad , and was forced to go the wfp route or loose some of my best commercial work when the working at height regs came in , it was a case if change over or loose my most valuable jobs . I was very hesitant and doubted the quality of the finish with wfp , it is a sharp learning curve . 

There is no way you can do the volume of work or type of work trad that can be done wfp , and as for earnings wfp is a no brainier . 

I am not criticising anyone who is trad just saying wfp is the way ahead , the Ford model t was was the first motor car for the masses but we have moved forward with technology no one today would want one of them , trad is similar it still has its uses but the masses will go wfp , it’s safer ,easier, you can do more variety’s of jobs , earnings are many times more than trad , evan for ones starting out you can get up and running for a relatively cheap price especially if you buy second hand systems , I started with a couple of ladders ,bucket squeegee, mop cost a few hundred pounds , today I have 3 vans on the road , and could easily have another 3 without trying but Ime not interested in growing the buisness, I would never be in the position I am today if i stayed trad  , each to there own , Ime happy for ones to be trad as there us so many jobs that cannot be done that way there is more work for us ???, but I won’t recommend it to newbies just on the health and safety grounds alone , I have seen people die falling from less than 5 feet , it’s simply not worth it , Ime not afrade of working at 3-4 storeys off ladders but I look back now at some of the jobs I used to do and think what an idiot I was ever doing it , why take unessasary risks .

As for the quality of the clean trad leaves detergent in the glass that’s sticky that attracts dirt , just using pure water there is no sticky residue the windows stay clean longer , you cannot clean the frames as well trad as with the pole , as in all jobs there are cowboys  that are wfp and cowboys that are trad , having used both methods for many years wfp is 100% better than trad , that’s not slating trad cleaners it’s just a scientific fact , which method people choose to use is up to them , but it is now very difficult to be an employer and expect staff to use ladders , just try getting insurance and see what it costs , many won’t cover you , the health and safety executive  states that ladders can be use but if a safer alternative is available it should be used , wfp would fit into that category, so if you have an accident and they investigate you will be asked some very awkward questions , if you doubt this just read the report on the window cleaner who worked for a multi national cleaning  company who died at st James palace owned by a member of the royal family , they got the book thrown at them , and a huge fine for disregarding the advice of the  HSE . 

 

[Part Timer]

To be honest I haven't tried WFP agreed  .

But I have 2 facts  Fact 1 is I have absolutely loads of customers who have sacked there WFP cleaner and would not employ another one for poor cleaning ,that's why they want a traditional Cleaner .

Fact 2 …….. I have personally walked up a road to inspect a said WFP cleaners work as he was only there around 5 mins ( front only though I will give him that ) and what I saw was shocking ( but this is one guy I admit , there are bad trad cleaners ) . There was a really big dollop of bird muck on that window and this guy had just taken the top off  and the stain was still on the window .

What I believe personally .

                                         No matter what you say or how you want to spin it you cant clean windows better than a tradional window cleaner end off . You cant get the pressure unless your at the window to clean the nasty bits off . Say what you want hot water clean blah blah blah . 

The ONLY thing WFP has over trad is being able to reach windows a trad cleaner cannot get to that's it end off and that's the place it has in the market  and obviously not falling off your ladders .

A lot of you WFP don't like admitting it cost you spent thousands on equipment and cant clean as well as getting close up and personal but you just don't want to admit it and hide behind scoffing at the old fashioned way . 

I agree you earn more as your faster so it also has that advantage but no way would I go WFP im happy cleaning them that little bit better .

P.s I didn't start this lol , someone did ask why I don't go WFP and im not going to lie and be polite . I also say this to WFP people who ask me why In the street ( afterall they did ask ) .

Not trying to offend or cause arguments but for me a lot of WFP think there the bees knees and they truly are NOT !!

I actually clean one job, 3 stories, where the traditional guy can't reach the third floor. He cleans the first 2 floors every 2 weeks and I do the top floor once a month. Every 3 months she asks me to clean the whole house because it cleans the windows properly. She only keeps him because he's been her window cleaner for 15 years. 

At the end of the day we're all working lads and can think whichever way we clean windows is best. What isn't in question is no matter what way you clean windows is if you're a cowboy you'll do a bad job and within 5 years using ladders will be banned on H&S grounds, legally it already is.