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Pump issues - any ideas?

WCF

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Unfortunately we live in a world that throws  things away rather than repairs them , getting parts for anything is difficult and expensive 


The manufacturing world will argue differently. They will say that due to mass production they were able to make the product cheaper. Hence the price discrepancy between the new unit and spare parts.

On the face of it they may have a point but competition from the east isn't the full story. They appear to have increased the price of spare parts to make most things uneconomical to repair.

Bosch did the same thing. I could employ another person in the workshop to strip 200 x 9" angle grinders for spare parts every month. In South Africa we would sell 200 replacement armatures a month. We sold 50 field coils, 10 motor housings, 10 handles, 20 on/off switches and 35 sets of bevel gears. I would sell the bevel gears as an assembly with spindle, bearings and seal for the same price as the 2 bevel gears as a part number,  crush 150 field coils, crush 190 motor housings, crush 190 handles, 180 switches and 165 gear sets and still make more profit than buying the exact number of parts as spares from Germany and pay the staff member to do the job. So Bosch was making a fortune on selling parts.

When I came to the UK 25 years ago I had a brief spell at Black & Decker. They were just finishing off closing the Spennymoor assembly line in Co Durham and moving it, machinery and all, to a country that was originally behind the iron curtain where labour was cheaper.

It just didn't make sense to me because a 13mm 2 speed hammer drill was costing them £6.97 to manufacture in Spennymoor and this included packaging, the chuck and a 3 pin plug. They were selling the same drilling machine for over £80 with refurbished drills at £80. (Refurbished could mean a nearly new drill returned for credit after the buyer had drilled a couple of holes he wanted it for or a brand new machine removed from its packaging and sold in a plastic bag.) I couldn't believe that moving a whole assembly line to another country with reduced labour costs could make much of a dent in £6.97. But there you have it.

 
The manufacturing world will argue differently. They will say that due to mass production they were able to make the product cheaper. Hence the price discrepancy between the new unit and spare parts.

On the face of it they may have a point but competition from the east isn't the full story. They appear to have increased the price of spare parts to make most things uneconomical to repair.

Bosch did the same thing. I could employ another person in the workshop to strip 200 x 9" angle grinders for spare parts every month. In South Africa we would sell 200 replacement armatures a month. We sold 50 field coils, 10 motor housings, 10 handles, 20 on/off switches and 35 sets of bevel gears. I would sell the bevel gears as an assembly with spindle, bearings and seal for the same price as the 2 bevel gears as a part number,  crush 150 field coils, crush 190 motor housings, crush 190 handles, 180 switches and 165 gear sets and still make more profit than buying the exact number of parts as spares from Germany and pay the staff member to do the job. So Bosch was making a fortune on selling parts.

When I came to the UK 25 years ago I had a brief spell at Black & Decker. They were just finishing off closing the Spennymoor assembly line in Co Durham and moving it, machinery and all, to a country that was originally behind the iron curtain where labour was cheaper.

It just didn't make sense to me because a 13mm 2 speed hammer drill was costing them £6.97 to manufacture in Spennymoor and this included packaging, the chuck and a 3 pin plug. They were selling the same drilling machine for over £80 with refurbished drills at £80. (Refurbished could mean a nearly new drill returned for credit after the buyer had drilled a couple of holes he wanted it for or a brand new machine removed from its packaging and sold in a plastic bag.) I couldn't believe that moving a whole assembly line to another country with reduced labour costs could make much of a dent in £6.97. But there you have it.




A friend of mind was a service engineer for a large white goods supplier for over 20 years , very experienced guy he was made redundant last year due to the fact that the company policy is now to return items to the distribution centre for replacement not repair , he said it cost more for him to replace a motor or pump etc than to replace the whole machine , unfortunately we live in a throw away world  

 
Thanks lads.

I've been out there this morning.

Switched controllers etc.

Switched reels.

The common denominator is the pump.

With all settings the same running both pumps on same reel and controller one flow is much higher than the other.

Took it apart can't see anything wrong with the valves or diaphragm. There quite a clever design inside, not much in the way of moving parts to wear out etc.

I noticed when I run the motor without the pump attached it's nice and quiet but once the pump is reattached it's a lot noisier than the identical pump.

I've ordered another one, went flojet again as I can't argue with 8 years reliable service and I've a few spare parts etc.

It's probably earned me £200k so i can live with that.

I probably shouldn't have rushed into replacing the controller, but they were a bit wet inside and corroded as I'd mounted them in a silly place so I think I'd have had trouble before long anyway.

Once I'm back up and running I'll have another look at it, as it's good to have a spare, or a backpack filler
Apologies for the late comment on this stream, I was out on the road a lot of the last week and have been playing catch up this morning.

Many thanks to Spruce with some top notch advice and trouble shooting. The advice to switch controllers on to the opposite pump is a very useful diagnostic tool as shown here. Glad to hear the situation has been resolved

Cheers

ian

 
It's definitely not a controller. You should definitely buy a new pump, maybe a problem with the valve, but it will be easier and cheaper to buy a new suitable pump.
 
Thanks lads.

I've been out there this morning.

Switched controllers etc.

Switched reels.

The common denominator is the pump.

With all settings the same running both pumps on same reel and controller one flow is much higher than the other.

Took it apart can't see anything wrong with the valves or diaphragm. There quite a clever design inside, not much in the way of moving parts to wear out etc.

I noticed when I run the motor without the pump attached it's nice and quiet but once the pump is reattached it's a lot noisier than the identical pump.

I've ordered another one, went flojet again as I can't argue with 8 years reliable service and I've a few spare parts etc.

It's probably earned me £200k so i can live with that.

I probably shouldn't have rushed into replacing the controller, but they were a bit wet inside and corroded as I'd mounted them in a silly place so I think I'd have had trouble before long anyway.

Once I'm back up and running I'll have another look at it, as it's good to have a spare, or a backpack filler
Morning

Apologies for being a tad late to this stream. Thank you for detailing the process of elimination with this issue. The Pump has lasted well at 8 years, I am guessing the original controllers were older V11 ( Three buttons) and the replacements are V16 ( 4 buttons ) The Flojets do seem to have lower current draws when compared to Aquatech, Shurflow, ect when run at the same flow rates we have found that the Flojet does draw a little less current compared to the others. Spruce is as always spot on as it is the Current draw the controller monitors so it knows when to Dead end a pump.

In this instance the issue seems to have been the pump head itself with the Vanes having worn over time. The consequence is the pump motor current draw would have been very low. Closing the valve woudl not have affected the draw much as there was little to no load on the motor

Chances are you will find Calibration values are lower with Flojets compared to other pumps this just a feature of the lower current draw. My suggestion is to set your preferred flow rate on the controller. It is very likely that the new pump will have a lower cal value compared to the older one and that the two pumps will be a little different.

I would also agree with Spruce that the warmer weather has an impact on the hose and water viscosity. The hose walls soften in the warmer temperatures and this means the hoses can expand more and take a little longer to pressure up. Warmer water moves quicker and more easily than cold A good example is Oil. Cold oil is thick and slow moving warm it up and it thins and moves more easily. Water is affected in a similar way. These factors change the load on the pump and how hard it has to work and the current draw.

In warmer months the pump does not have to work quite as hard to move water and the current wil be lower compared to winter wher it wil have to work harder to move the same volume of water and draw more current

Cheers
 
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