Pure freedom battery life

[BlueClearChoice]

Hi guys.

Does anyone on here have a pure freedom trolley if so how long does it take you to fully charge it. Had mine on for 13 hours last night and only charged from 12 to 12.7 advice would be welcomed please

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[Nudel]

It varies, but 12.7 volt may very well be the voltage where your battery is fully charged? What is the issue?

 

[BlueClearChoice]

When I first got it 3 years ago it was getting fully charged up to 13.9. Not sure if the battery is on its way out soon.


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[Nudel]

Oh, I understand. If you've been using it a lot, 3 years is a decent lifespan really. A battery change might be in order, yes.

 

[BlueClearChoice]

Yeah I thought it might be. I’m gonna have to look into how much a new battery is and how you change it on the trolley.


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[brianbadonde]

I have a PF trolley. The battery tends to last 12-18 months for me being worked solid 5 days a week. The voltage tends to be mid 13s to begin with. After 3 years, a voltage of 12.7 is pretty good so no need to be concerned. The biggest snag with a battery is you can't really keep a spare as I'd imagine they wont keep well being sat there not used/charged. When it goes, it goes, and the charge wont last long, so you have to buy one ASAP. 

Battery is about £85 with delivery from PF I think. It's easily changed over. I'm not very good with that sort of thing and I can change it. 

 

[BlueClearChoice]

Yeah that’s me all over not the best at DIY. Do you think I should carry on with my battery for the time?

When it goes what happens will it just cut of and not be able to charge again? I only use it twice a month not a lot.


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[BlueClearChoice]

Or do you think the charge isn’t strong enough and I need to buy a new one?


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[spruce]

A new leisure battery will only read 12.7/12.8v when fully charged and left to rest for about 4 hours before testing the voltage across the battery.

Over time a lead acid battery will start to deteriorate and will generally loose capacity (amperage.) So an 85 amph battery when new should have a capacity of 85amps but over time that capacity will slowly drop as the battery sulphates up. In 95% of failures it will be because the battery hasn't got the storage left to last you through the day in the case of window cleaning. (If you use 20 amps of power through the day and have 25 amps of capacity you will just think things are all fine. Its when you need 20amps and you only have 18amps of capacity where you then find out that you have an issue.)

You have done pretty well to get 3 years from a battery tbh even although it gets limited use. It always good to fully recharge your battery at the end of every working day.

@BlueClearChoice. You asked " do you think the charge isn’t strong enough?" Under load (pump running) the battery voltage will drop a little. In fact, you won't notice if it drops into the low 11 volts under load. The controllers that were supplied with these units were programmed to cut off if the voltage of the battery under load dropped to 10.4 volts.

There is no simple way for us window cleaners to know when the battery has to be replaced - a form of preventative maintenance. One day you won't be able to finish the job as the battery dies. If you leave if for a few minutes it will recover voltage and will quickly die again under load. Its then time to replace the battery. It also doesn't make sense to buy a replacement battery just in case. We get about 3 years service from a leisure battery normally, but we do have one that is over 6 years old.

The only way we can see what the capacity of a battery is is to fully charge it and then put a known load onto it. If we put a headlamp bulb of 55 watts on it then we know that the bulb is drawing 4.5 amps, similar to what our Shurflo wfp pumps draw. If the bulb burns for 12 hours before going dim, then we have a battery capacity of 55 amps, etc. So at 55 amps we still have enough capacity to do a days work.

At one time a Mercedes workshop would automatically replace a battery when the car reached a certain age. It may have appeared to still be OK, but some engineers decided that an average battery life was X years so we will replace it before so its owner would never be plagued with a non starting MB. I don't think we can afford to do that.

 

[Donny]

A new leisure battery will only read 12.7/12.8v when fully charged and left to rest for about 4 hours before testing the voltage across the battery.
 
Over time a lead acid battery will start to deteriorate and will generally loose capacity (amperage.) So an 85 amph battery when new should have a capacity of 85amps but over time that capacity will slowly drop as the battery sulphates up. In 95% of failures it will be because the battery hasn't got the storage left to last you through the day in the case of window cleaning. (If you use 20 amps of power through the day and have 25 amps of capacity you will just think things are all fine. Its when you need 20amps and you only have 18amps of capacity where you then find out that you have an issue.)
 
You have done pretty well to get 3 years from a battery tbh even although it gets limited use. It always good to fully recharge your battery at the end of every working day.
 
[mention=6403]BlueClearChoice[/mention]. You asked " do you think the charge isn’t strong enough?" Under load (pump running) the battery voltage will drop a little. In fact, you won't notice if it drops into the low 11 volts under load. The controllers that were supplied with these units were programmed to cut off if the voltage of the battery under load dropped to 10.4 volts.
 
There is no simple way for us window cleaners to know when the battery has to be replaced - a form of preventative maintenance. One day you won't be able to finish the job as the battery dies. If you leave if for a few minutes it will recover voltage and will quickly die again under load. Its then time to replace the battery. It also doesn't make sense to buy a replacement battery just in case. We get about 3 years service from a leisure battery normally, but we do have one that is over 6 years old.
 
The only way we can see what the capacity of a battery is is to fully charge it and then put a known load onto it. If we put a headlamp bulb of 55 watts on it then we know that the bulb is drawing 4.5 amps, similar to what our Shurflo wfp pumps draw. If the bulb burns for 12 hours before going dim, then we have a battery capacity of 55 amps, etc. So at 55 amps we still have enough capacity to do a days work.
 
At one time a Mercedes workshop would automatically replace a battery when the car reached a certain age. It may have appeared to still be OK, but some engineers decided that an average battery life was X years so we will replace it before so its owner would never be plagued with a non starting MB. I don't think we can afford to do that.
 

Just carry a spare battery in your cab , it ain’t difficult


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[Marko067]

I've used a PF trolley for ten years. For me it's the perfect tool for my round. For the last two years it been modified for lightness so I'll discount them for the purposes of this post.

In the first eight years I used it as it came (Sureflo pump, 12v 26ah golf cart battery).

Used all day, every working day, I never got more than one full year out of any battery It was fitted with except when I started and was only doing the tops with it. that one lasted eighteen months. Once 100% wfp almost all the batteries I fitted lasted one year almost to the week. So just before I modded it I used to buy a new battery about one month before I new it was goint to fail.

One note re changing the battery: Be sure when refitting the battery in the box that you dont trap the wires in the box before screwing down the lid as the fuse is outside the box and if you trap and short the wires interesting things happen. Speaking from experience as you probably gather.

I now use a smaller battery (10ah) and a smaller 5lpm pump and don't use a battery box as it makes roadside repairs (if necessary) much easier (The battery in the picture is a 7ah one but I don't quite get a full day out of it, for me anyway. The 10ah one I use now is a bit taller)

I keep a spare in the motor and its easy to change should I need to. My current one has been going strong for six months and at about £20 it's not a huge expense to replace.

 

[BlueClearChoice]

Hi Marko.

Do you think I should replace my battery anytime soon? Or has a little while longer yet.

Should I buy a new battery from PF?


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[Marko067]

When you first take the battery off charge it should read over 13 volts. If it doesn't there might be something wrong with the charger.

As spruce pointed out though to get a proper reading you should let the battery settle for 4 hrs after charging and then take a reading. At that point it should be about 12.7v.

However, the more you use a battery it's capacity, which is measured in 'amp hours' (ah) will slowly fall off. This is normal, and when that capacity falls below what we require of it we change the battery.

If you are still getting a full days use out of it and your flow doesn't start to fall off I wouldn't change it. In my experience though once it gets to a point where you notice your flow start to fall off before the day is out, these batteries quickly die.

The standard charger that is supplied with these trolleys is not the best. I've had two that have failed and a friend has also had one that failed. I now use a CTek 5amp charger and it's brilliant. I beleive PF sell them as an upgrade but you can buy them elswhere.

 

[BlueClearChoice]

Great thanks for all your help really appreciate it. I’m gonna but a better charger tomorrow. Will buy the CTek tomorrow


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[brianbadonde]

As mentioned before, it wont hold it's charge for the day when it's spent so time to get a new one. If it's lasting all day then no problem.